Witness Says Trayvon Martin Attacked George Zimmerman

[Brian4Liberty]

The dude is riding around "patrolling" with a gun. He thought the unarmed guy he ended up killing was suspicious. Perhaps if he had law enforcement training, instead of on the job training (or whatever he was doing), the young man that is dead would now be alive. Imo, our cops don't have enough training, we do not need others making bigger mistakes.

A young man is dead over being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and having a bad "watchmen" cross his path.

Wholeheartedly agree that Police training needs to be changed!

But you do bring up an interesting point for comparison and contrast.

The mainstream media regularly overlooks and excuses "trained" officers who kill people. For instance, where they pull out their guns and mow down someone who is just standing there flabbergasted by conflicting commands from the authorities (i.e. the infamous Erik Scott Costco case).

So an untrained mundane shoots someone who is actually on top of him, beating him, and the mainstream media (and other concerned celebrities) crucifies him. Where are they when the Police, who should be better trained, make much worse mistakes? If this kid was on top of a Police officer beating on him and a moment from taking his gun, who would be questioning that shooting (present company excepted, of course)? Certainly not the media.

And that is leaving race completely out of the picture. This current kerfuffle about race is nothing more than a red herring to distract the sheep from real issues. Just another emotional distraction like abortion and contraception.

 

[azxd]

No, the fact that the facts don't seem to totally add up to either side being right, and there's a dead body shot by the person in question, by their gun, and no real way to prove right there on the spot that the shooting was justified.

Why have forensics, when these cops are so awesome they can look around and determine "nothing to see here"?

I have no clue why we need as many cops as we have, but with none, I predict things would be worse.

 

[azxd]

Would you have been following Martin around with a loaded weapon at night after being told by 911 that you shouldn't?

Time will tell ... I have no clue what tomorrow might bring.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

There is no such thing as a race war. Stop living in fear.

I agree, yet the media tries to convince us of the opposite on a daily basis. Fear Iran, fear white people, fear black people, fear Muslims, fear Christians, fear, fear, fear...

 

[William R]

I agree, yet the media tries to convince us of the opposite on a daily basis. Fear Iran, fear white people, fear black people, fear Muslims, fear Christians, fear, fear, fear...

The Race War of Black Against White

http://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2009/10/race-war-of-black-against-white.html

 

[azxd]

No, what you are asking for is a completely new set of rules in which probable cause as a prerequisite for arrest is dismissed in favor of the existence of an angry black mob. That's what you keep missing. The rules in our system are Probable Cause, Arrest, Bail, Indictment, Trial, Result. The chain can not get started absent probable cause. The police investigated the death. They found no evidence a crime had been committed under Florida Law. Despite all the media attention, we have still not heard of a single shred of evidence which would provide probable cause to make an arrest. Juries do not determine probable cause. Probable Cause is the standard we use to protect people from arbitrary arrest and judgment by juries. Police can not just throw their hands up and say, "we don't really know what happened here, let's let a jury decide." Rather, the arresting officer himself needs to have a reasonable belief that a crime has been committed.

This desire for mob justice and dispensing of basic procedural protections among the masses doesn't surprise me, but I'm quite shocked to find it getting so much traction on these forums. If anybody should care about our natural rights and most basic of protections against arbitrary arrest, it should be us.

Stop
Stop
Stop
Stop ... There is no need for a trial, or anything else, the man is obviously guilty of something, or he would not have a gun ... Ask any gun-grabber, and you will find this to be true.
Facts mean nothing ... He legally possesses a gun, and should be tried for murder under the auspicies of guilty until proven innocent.
Sadly ... It is the mentality we face.

 

[azxd]

I'm sure you have proof that this is what I want.

I have cited articles in various OTHER threads already, showing that legal experts find it odd that this is going to a GRAND JURY for review without the guy ever having been arrested.

What I am asking is that the cops, absent forensics, ballistics, all the 9-1-1 tapes, the testimony of witnesses... that those cops not be entrusted with the ultimate say as to whether or not this guy acted in self-defense. What I am asking is that a guy found with a corpse next to him, with a bullethole, with the bullet admittedly shot from that gun, be considered to have killed him and that, until it can be determined by a presentation of the evidence that he acted in self-defense or some other reasonable explanation is in play, he be arrested.

I know. I'm bonkers like that.

YEP ... Totally bonkers

 

[BlackTerrel]

The Race War of Black Against White

http://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2009/10/race-war-of-black-against-white.html

Oh man just give it a rest. As if this has anything to do with a dead kid with skittles.

 

[azxd]

I agree, yet the media tries to convince us of the opposite on a daily basis. Fear Iran, fear white people, fear black people, fear Muslims, fear Christians, fear, fear, fear...

YES, we MUST nuke Iran to save the planet ... Just as we must kill ourselves to save the planet.

Fear is all we have to look forward to

 

[MelissaWV]

YEP ... Totally bonkers

No, bonkers is what I've heard tonight. Hooray for the worst of every side getting its way.

The Justice Department may level hate crime charges against Zimmerman for using a "racial epithet" on the 9-1-1 call.

Forget for a moment that the tape is totally unclear. Forget for another moment that calling someone a name should not be against the law.

There are no charges yet against Zimmerman, therefore right now the only way a "hate crime" can be prosecuted is to assert that the name-calling itself was the crime, or maybe they plan on going over the local jurisdiction's head and trying the whole thing with a neat bow on it (shooting, racism, and all).

The whole thing is going to smell far worse before it gets better, and those who stand to profit will do so in spades.

 

[azxd]

Oh man just give it a rest. As if this has anything to do with a dead kid with skittles.

Waa ... LOL
Diversion !!!

 

[azxd]

No, bonkers is what I've heard tonight. Hooray for the worst of every side getting its way.

The Justice Department may level hate crime charges against Zimmerman for using a "racial epithet" on the 9-1-1 call.

Forget for a moment that the tape is totally unclear. Forget for another moment that calling someone a name should not be against the law.

There are no charges yet against Zimmerman, therefore right now the only way a "hate crime" can be prosecuted is to assert that the name-calling itself was the crime, or maybe they plan on going over the local jurisdiction's head and trying the whole thing with a neat bow on it (shooting, racism, and all).

The whole thing is going to smell far worse before it gets better, and those who stand to profit will do so in spades.

Therefore spades stink ... LOL
I'm giving you more rep, just because you are so reasonable !!!!

ETA:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MelissaWV again.

I hate this aspect of the forum

 

[Brian4Liberty]

There is no need for a trial, or anything else, the man is obviously guilty of something, or he would not have a gun ... Ask any gun-grabber, and you will find this to be true.
Facts mean nothing ... He legally possesses a gun, and should be tried for murder under the auspicies of guilty until proven innocent.
Sadly ... It is the mentality we face.

The other political agenda involved here. Nothing like a tragedy that can be exploited for multiple agendas at once.

 

[Elfshadow]

Stop
Stop
Stop
Stop ... There is no need for a trial, or anything else, the man is obviously guilty of something, or he would not have a gun ... Ask any gun-grabber, and you will find this to be true.
Facts mean nothing ... He legally possesses a gun, and should be tried for murder under the auspicies of guilty until proven innocent.
Sadly ... It is the mentality we face.

You represent the opposite of the spectrum. You seem to be obsessed with the idea ending someone's life should have no consequences what so ever. My personal opinion is that we don't know whats really going on here, but it has brought to life with it that a law with good intent, has some gaping holes in it. The laws drafter says as much. So keep on rambling about gun-grabbers, or whatever little insulting term you want to make up. Facts to you mean nothing if they don't support your posistion. You really are just as bad as your gun grabbers.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

The Race War of Black Against White

Yes, there are collectivist jerks out there. The sun will also rise tomorrow. Both will continue for a very long time.

 

[William R]

Oh man just give it a rest. As if this has anything to do with a dead kid with skittles.

Stats don't lie.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Stats don't lie.

The people who interpret them do.

 

[RonPaulMall]

I don't think you are bonkers. But you have absolutely no understanding of the American judicial system or Florida Law in particular. We do not conditionally arrest people because we think it is possible at some future time we may have reason to believe they commit a crime. That is the way Authoritarian States without rule of law operate. The only way, I repeat, the only way the police could have arrested Zimmerman is if after their initial investigation, they had probable cause to believe he had committed a crime.

Now, let's look at the facts and the law before us. We seem to have indisputable evidence that a fight occurred. Zimmerman, the only eyewitness to the shooting, says Martin started the fight. The only witness who saw any part of what happened that evening reports Martin on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. Zimmerman has wounds consistent with being beaten on the front and stains consistent with being on his back. Zimmerman is the one who called the police in the first place and has been neighborhood watching quite avidly without ever attacking anyone before. If Zimmerman's account of the incident struck them as reasonable, and there was no physical evidence or witness testimony to contradict it, then there is no justification to arrest Zimmerman as under Florida Law defining justifiable killings, there was no crime.

I have no problem with you saying, let's continue to investigate this case to see if any evidence pops up that suggests a crime. That is completely fair and reasonable. But to suggest that Zimmerman should be arrested on the basis of some future evidence that may or may not be forthcoming is an affront to the very essence of our legal system.

 

[maskander]

makes me sick, but whatever, go americka!

 

[MelissaWV]

I guess you don't understand that there already is a grand jury convening regarding this case.

Attorney Craig Sonner said the public is only hearing part of the story, and when all the facts come out, it will be clear that Zimmerman acted in self defense. A grand jury is scheduled to begin hearing the case April 10.

I wasn't aware that people were usually not arrested before their case goes before a grand jury.

While the uproar continues over why George Zimmerman has not been arrested, soon the citizens of Seminole County will have their say as to whether or not he should be charged for killing Trayvon Martin in Sanford.

A grand jury composed of area residents will convene April 10 and hear from prosecutors, police and maybe even Zimmerman himself as they decide what to do.

Florida International University College of Law Professor Phyllis Kotey says it is “very unusual when you have criminal charges, especially of this nature, where there has not been at least an initial arrest.”

Kotey, who spent more than two decades as a prosecutor and judge, says what has happened with Zimmerman is not standard practice.

...

“You can expect they will hear the 911 tapes,” Kotey said of the grand jury. “They will talk to any individuals who have any information about what was happening.”

She said that means the two women who came forward to say they heard Martin pleading for help will testify.

The 18 members of the grand jury will read the police reports, the medical examiner’s findings, speak to witnesses including police, and hear Zimmerman’s words to the 911 operator on the fateful night of Feb. 26.