Witness Says Trayvon Martin Attacked George Zimmerman

[RonPaulMall]

But the bottom line here is that the cops really didn't know, either, and decided Zimmerman's story was 100% accurate and true, which is why he was not arrested.

You are missing a fundamental aspect of the American Justice system. It is not on Zimmerman to prove his story is 100% accurate and true. The burden of proof is on the police to demonstrate probable cause that a crime was committed. As there are no witnesses, physical evidence, or circumstantial evidence to suggest Zimmerman's story is false, there is simply no evidence of a crime. Without evidence of a crime, police can not make an arrest. Making an arrest absent probable cause is itself a crime, in fact.

 

[azxd]

Also, he was told by 9-1-1 operator NOT to follow. Zimmerman was dreaming of being a cop (or something), sadly he didn't have the training to back it up.

More cop dreamer BS ... Where is your proof ?

 

[William R]

Reports of the 911 call by Zimmerman.
He called in a "suspicious person" (questionable in itself)
He was in his vehicle and was told NOT TO FOLLOW.
He was following (was on the phone, and reported being followed)

Zimmerman got out of the vehicle and confronted him (also heard on phone).
If the Cop wannabe had stayed in his own vehicle (and minded his own business) there would have been NO incident

That was the initial story by the media. But now its clear that Zimmerman did stop following the kid and was walking back to his truck when the kid jumped him.

 

[MelissaWV]

So apparently Zimmerman was a measly 5-9" and out of shape. Martin was a spry 6-3" teenager and this may correlate to the witness' testimony that Martin had situated himself on top of Zimmerman.

He grew since last night, and perhaps Zimmerman thought he could "take" Martin... since Zimmerman had about 110 pounds and a gun and a car in his corner. His being mistaken would account for the broken nose.

The very fact that there are so many threads going back and forth on this really does lend credence to the idea that he should have been arrested and should stand trial, rather than the on-the-spot decision of police officers who had not even interviewed all the witnesses concluding that the guy should not be put in cuffs.

 

[azxd]

If this is true, it changes the ballgame a bit. Zimmerman should not have followed the kid since the dispatcher told him not to; however, if the kid jumped him and inflicted bodily harm, he had the right to use force.

There is one thing that people who carry need to know. There is ALWAYS a firearm present at a situation where you are. What this means, is like a cop, you have to protect yourself from the subject and from the possibility that someone can incapacitate you long enough to grab your weapon.... This also means that you have to avoid fights at ALL COSTS! Stay away from bars and places where you might be involved in a physical altercation as well. If you are going to carry a weapon, you must act with great restraint!

Words of wisdom that all should listen abide by !!!

 

[MelissaWV]

That was the initial story by the media. But now its clear that Zimmerman did stop following the kid and was walking back to his truck when the kid jumped him.

The new "witness" does not say he saw this, or at least it has not been reported as such. The witness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and hitting him. No mention of jumping that I saw. The next time the witness saw them, Martin was dead.

 

[Elfshadow]

What does that have to do with anything though? Following someone on a public street is not a crime. Nor is getting out of the car to ask them a question. Since Zimmerman was not doing anything unlawful, he has a right under Florida law to defend himself against attack. Period. We are not analyzing whether Martin should be charged with assault and battery or not. The only questions is whether Zimmerman committed a crime in killing Martin, and thus far, there is simply no evidence to suggest this was a criminal shooting.

Forget the law for the moment. How would you react to someone following you around in a car as you walked through a neighborhood. Think about it. Its dark, and there is a slow moving car shadowing you. Its night so the streets are empty. Just put yourself in the kids shoes.

 

[azxd]

Agreed. We don't have enough details being a third party. Zimmerman could be a monster or his actions could be validated, albeit his use of excessive force is certainly in question.

It should be questioned, but he should not be judged until the facts (few as they may be) are known.

Sorry,
But I'm still laughing at the cop haters who think the "wanna be cop" expression has merit.

 

[MelissaWV]

You are missing a fundamental aspect of the American Justice system. It is not on Zimmerman to prove his story is 100% accurate and true. The burden of proof is on the police to demonstrate probable cause that a crime was committed. As there are no witnesses, physical evidence, or circumstantial evidence to suggest Zimmerman's story is false, there is simply no evidence of a crime. Without evidence of a crime, police can not make an arrest. Making an arrest absent probable cause is itself a crime, in fact.

Um, no. I mention the 100% accurate and true because that is a component of the law in this case, which I have a sneaking sad feeling that most in the threads have not familiarized themselves with.

It is up to the cops on the scene: if they believe Zimmerman's story that it was in self-defense, there is no arrest. This is going to the grand jury, but there is no arrest. There are witnesses to suggest that Zimmerman's story does not meet the criteria for "Stand your Ground." I am fairly sure that people have been arrested absent witnesses before, when they are found with a corpse next to them that has a hole in it caused by their own gun. The witnesses neither support nor refute Zimmerman's story, really, to the point that it seems he really should have been arrested.

By now, he would probably be out on bail. There'd be a case in his future. Witnesses, at that point, could be brought forth. That is an entirely different process than "eh, looks like he acted in self-defense" and not arresting him, then convening a grand jury to review things way later.

 

[azxd]

Hey Mel, have you actually looked at our "stand your ground bill"? When I actually read it just seems full of holes that will allow stuff like this. I love the idea that you should be able to defend yourself but it really seems to me that this law needs to be rewritten.

I'm sure every gun-grabber on the planet will agree with you

 

[MelissaWV]

It should be questioned, but he should not be judged until the facts (few as they may be) are known.
Sorry,
But I'm still laughing at the cop haters who think the "wanna be cop" expression has merit.

Agreed. So why give that power to the police on the scene, rather than a jury of his peers?

 

[RonPaulMall]

The very fact that there are so many threads going back and forth on this really does lend credence to the idea that he should have been arrested and should stand trial, rather than the on-the-spot decision of police officers who had not even interviewed all the witnesses concluding that the guy should not be put in cuffs.

Yeah, because the standard for arrest should be, "because a large mob wants it so". If Zimmerman's account of the incident seemed credible to the police, and if all the available evidence was consistent with Zimmerman's story, then the police are forbidden to make an arrest. An arrest is a serious thing. It is the ultimate violation of personal liberty. Your suggestion that we should arrest people not based on law or evidence, but on a what a crowd wants is shocking to me.

Liberty minded people aren't supposed to cite mobs as a rationale for arrest. You want Zimmerman arrested? Point to a single piece of evidence suggesting a crime was committed.

 

[azxd]

So apparently Zimmerman was a measly 5-9" and out of shape. Martin was a spry 6-3" teenager and this may correlate to the witness' testimony that Martin had situated himself on top of Zimmerman.

A child is capable of murder, but Samuel Colt evened the score (for the feeble and elderly), so to speak.

Or,
The main reason not to mess with an old man/woman is simple ... A fight with a 20 year old = A 20 year old might beat your ass, but an old man/woman will just kill you.
Pick your fights wisely

 

[azxd]

You are missing a fundamental aspect of the American Justice system. It is not on Zimmerman to prove his story is 100% accurate and true. The burden of proof is on the police to demonstrate probable cause that a crime was committed. As there are no witnesses, physical evidence, or circumstantial evidence to suggest Zimmerman's story is false, there is simply no evidence of a crime. Without evidence of a crime, police can not make an arrest. Making an arrest absent probable cause is itself a crime, in fact.

Word

 

[azxd]

That was the initial story by the media. But now its clear that Zimmerman did stop following the kid and was walking back to his truck when the kid jumped him.

Please quit distorting the distorted story with additional information.

 

[TruthisTreason]

More cop dreamer BS ... Where is your proof ?

The dude is riding around "patrolling" with a gun. He thought the unarmed guy he ended up killing was suspicious. Perhaps if he had law enforcement training, instead of on the job training (or whatever he was doing), the young man that is dead would now be alive. Imo, our cops don't have enough training, we do not need others making bigger mistakes.

A young man is dead over being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and having a bad "watchmen" cross his path.

 

[azxd]

He grew since last night, and perhaps Zimmerman thought he could "take" Martin... since Zimmerman had about 110 pounds and a gun and a car in his corner. His being mistaken would account for the broken nose.

The very fact that there are so many threads going back and forth on this really does lend credence to the idea that he should have been arrested and should stand trial, rather than the on-the-spot decision of police officers who had not even interviewed all the witnesses concluding that the guy should not be put in cuffs.

WOW ... The 2 or 3 threads we have warrants an arrest, just because we are discussing the story LOL
Sorry, but I just had to point this out.

 

[azxd]

The new "witness" does not say he saw this, or at least it has not been reported as such. The witness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and hitting him. No mention of jumping that I saw. The next time the witness saw them, Martin was dead.

It's a good thing Martin was not near me, because he'd not have been given the opportunity to get on top of me for the assault ... BANG !

 

[MelissaWV]

WOW ... The 2 or 3 threads we have warrants an arrest, just because we are discussing the story LOL
Sorry, but I just had to point this out.

No, the fact that the facts don't seem to totally add up to either side being right, and there's a dead body shot by the person in question, by their gun, and no real way to prove right there on the spot that the shooting was justified.

Why have forensics, when these cops are so awesome they can look around and determine "nothing to see here"?

 

[MelissaWV]

It's a good thing Martin was not near me, because he'd not have been given the opportunity to get on top of me for the assault ... BANG !

Internet toughguys...

Place is full of them lately.