Witness Says Trayvon Martin Attacked George Zimmerman

I don't think you are bonkers. But you have absolutely no understanding of the American judicial system or Florida Law in particular. We do not conditionally arrest people because we think it is possible at some future time we may have reason to believe they commit a crime. That is the way Authoritarian States without rule of law operate. The only way, I repeat, the only way the police could have arrested Zimmerman is if after their initial investigation, they had probable cause to believe he had committed a crime.

How could there not be? He shot an unarmed man? Is that not probable cause?

Now, let's look at the facts and the law before us. We seem to have indisputable evidence that a fight occurred. Zimmerman, the only eyewitness to the shooting, says Martin started the fight. The only witness who saw any part of what happened that evening reports Martin on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. Zimmerman has wounds consistent with being beaten on the front and stains consistent with being on his back. Zimmerman is the one who called the police in the first place and has been neighborhood watching quite avidly without ever attacking anyone before. If Zimmerman's account of the incident struck them as reasonable, and there was no physical evidence or witness testimony to contradict it, then there is no justification to arrest Zimmerman as under Florida Law defining justifiable killings, there was no crime.

I have no problem with you saying, let's continue to investigate this case to see if any evidence pops up that suggests a crime. That is completely fair and reasonable. But to suggest that Zimmerman should be arrested on the basis of some future evidence that may or may not be forthcoming is an affront to the very essence of our legal system.

Ok you understand the law better than me. Explain to me how this works:

1. Let's say Zimmerman started the fight. Trayvon happened to be a better fighter and seized the upperhand. Is Zimmerman legally allowed to shoot him and claim self defense.

2. Let's even go further. Say Trayvon started the fight. Is Zimmerman allowed to shoot an unarmed man over a fistfight?

Here's the thing: I've been in many fist fights in my life. More so in my youth when I was hyperactive and dumb. In none of the fights did anyone sustain injury that didn't heal in 30 days and in none of the fights were police involved. Are you saying that if during the fistfight I was involved in whoever I was fighting could have used a gun to shoot and kill me and that would have been acceptable since we were in a fight?

This is mind boggling to me. The ONLY defense of Zimmerman (if true) is that he was losing a fistfight? Is that justification to shoot and kill an unarmed man?

You tell me - you seem to know the law better than I do.
 
the Blaze isnt a very solid source judging by the rest of their content. Certainly not an unbiased one. The comments are hilarious though

"Baddoggy
Posted on March 24, 2012 at 5:45pm
This whole thing is NOT about race. It is about an Nationwide takeover of your FREEDOMS and liberties.
Obama will use this as a tool to fan the flames to get us to fight based on the color of skin. Then he will escalate it into a NATIONAL event."


Remember how the BTK killer had some quasi police job he took way too seriously? they search this Zimmerman guys basement.

and there SHOULD be riots if Zimmerman doesn't go to prison. He shot and killed an innocent kid for absolutely no reason.
 
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1. Let's say Zimmerman started the fight. Trayvon happened to be a better fighter and seized the upperhand. Is Zimmerman legally allowed to shoot him and claim self defense.

2. Let's even go further. Say Trayvon started the fight. Is Zimmerman allowed to shoot an unarmed man over a fistfight?

...

1. Absolutely not. Florida Law specifically states you cannot do this. This is why the Stand Your ground Law would be irrelevant here IF that is what happened..

2. Yes...Say I was walking down the street, and suddenly got jumped and was losing the upper hand. I could legally claim I was in fear of my life, not to mention I was carrying a weapon(I legally do-always) and if I got knocked out or incapacitated said weapon could be used against me or end up killing someone else...There is no requirement in the law that you try to fistfight the attacker first. Think of a 115lb woman and a 225lb attacker...
 
I wasn't aware that people were usually not arrested before their case goes before a grand jury.

The grand jury was called for political reasons. It is highly unusual for a grand jury to be called absent an arrest, but it is also highly unusual for a President to weigh in on a local case he knows nothing about and has no jurisdiction over. In any event, the grand jury has no impact on what the police do. A grand jury convening does not excuse them from their responsibilities. They found no probable cause. If they made an arrest under such circumstances, they'd be putting themselves in legal peril.

Ok you understand the law better than me. Explain to me how this works:

1. Let's say Zimmerman started the fight.

We can stop right there. The statute is clear:

776.013(3)
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

If Zimmerman started the fight, he would have been engaged in an unlawful activity. 776.013(3) no longer applies and the shooting is no longer a justifiable use of force.

2. Let's even go further. Say Trayvon started the fight. Is Zimmerman allowed to shoot an unarmed man over a fistfight?

If Trayvon started the fight, then the statute applies so long as Zimmerman reasonably believed he would otherwise incur great bodily harm. Witness has Martin on top of Zimmerman punching him in the face, so great bodily harm threshold was clearly satisfied. If this is what happened (Martin starting the fight), and the police clearly think it the most likely scenario, then no crime has occurred (other than Martin's assault of Zimmerman).

Here's the thing: I've been in many fist fights in my life. More so in my youth when I was hyperactive and dumb. In none of the fights did anyone sustain injury that didn't heal in 30 days and in none of the fights were police involved. Are you saying that if during the fistfight I was involved in whoever I was fighting could have used a gun to shoot and kill me and that would have been acceptable since we were in a fight?

If your fights occurred in the State of Florida after 2006, then yes, whomever you were fighting could have used a gun to shoot and kill you so long as they reasonably feared great bodily harm. Injuries that take 4 weeks to heal are almost by definition great bodily harm, and that is just the injury you actually inflicted. In theory, anytime you punch someone repeatedly to the face you are highly likely to break their nose or eye socket, quite likely to cause skull fracture, and if you aren't stopped, you will eventually kill the person.

This is mind boggling to me. The ONLY defense of Zimmerman (if true) is that he was losing a fistfight? Is that justification to shoot and kill an unarmed man?

No. First, it is not really a "defense" since the statute provides immunity from prosecution, not an affirmative defense. And second, the critical element in making it a justifiable use of force is not who was winning the fight, but who started it. If you attack someone else in the state of Florida, and they reasonably fear great bodily harm, they can shoot you dead. This is the law, and why Zimmerman has not been charged with a crime.
 
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