Voter Fraud Conspiracies

Instead of screaming at one another about the founding fathers, can we try doing something productive?

*South Carolina needs volunteers. Find a way to get there.
*Michigan needs volunteers ASAP. Find a way to get there.
*Your local Libertarian Party may be helpful if you let them know that you're looking to help Ron Paul out. They may have phone lists and mailing addresses of members who are more likely than not going to be receptive to Ron Paul's message. If they do, well, you just got yourself a homework assignment.
*If you DO believe something funny happened in NH, and it's certainly possible, contact each county. E-mails, phone calls, letters, but be rational and calm in your communications. Even if you have to grind your teeth and kick your dog while you do it, dispassionately let them know that late votes for Paul are filtering in in other counties, and you'd like to know about that specific county. Don't yell "LIVE FREE OR DIE" at them, don't call them traitors. Act like you're calling someone about a job interview or you're trying to close a deal. Courteous, professional but persistant.
 
Why not investigate the manner of spending more money on the campaign?

Because you don't blow your whole wad on one state you moron, you lecture me about holding back on certain occasions then completely contradict yourself, not to mention prancing around like some sort of know-it-all about Founding Fathers' analogies, while simultaneously denying those of others with zero explanation. One more bull shit post and you're joining your buddy.
 
The more crazy we look, the less votes we are going to get. We were suppossed to have a strong showing in NH. Obviously something is going wrong with our approach.

We can have 3 million people show up to vote for Ron Paul in SC, but if we don't sort this out, the result will be McCain or some other neocon getting 3 million more votes. Obviously something is going wrong with our approach.

Aside from the actual FRAUDULENT voting results, all indicators are that we had a good showing in NH.
 
No, it constitutes a fuck-up. You still have not proven intent.



Where is the proof of this being deliberate?


Obviously, you are asking me to prove something that can only be proven by an investigation. Once again, think. While you think, feel free to read what BlackBoxVoting.org has written about this situation.

Link for reference

Article posted at that link:

Posted on Monday, January 7, 2008 - 2:16 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE JAN 9 9am PST: TOWN OF SUTTON CONFIRMS RON PAUL TOTALS WERE 31, NOT ZERO.

I just got off the phone with Jennifer Call, Town Clerk for Sutton. She confirmed that the Ron Paul totals in Sutton were actually 31, and said that they were "left off the tally sheet" and it was human error.

This is not an acceptable answer, especially because one of the most common forms of fraud in a hand count system is to alter or omit results on the reporting sheet. Hand count is lovely, transparent. They then fill out another reconciliation sheet, often in front of witnesses, and it looks fine. Then they provide a summary or media sheet with the incorrect results.

A Web site here: http://www.wheresthepaper.org has more on fraud techniques with hand counted paper ballots. You'll have to dig for it -- or Google, and the excellent research on this is Theresa Hommel from the state of New York.

* * * *

Comma delimited database: NH municipalities hand count vs use Diebold machines: http://www.bbvdocs.org/NH/state/Jan-08-votingsystems-NH.txt

ORIGINAL ARTICLE

John Silvestro and his small private business, LHS Associates, has the exclusive programming contracts for all New Hampshire voting machines, which combined will count about 81 percent of the vote tomorrow.

Silvestro IS the New Hampshire chain of custody

Or at least a very large component in it.

Last fall, with the help of some New Hampshire citizens, Black Box Voting began working on a "New Hampshire Chain of Custody" project, in which we identified some of the areas of concern that might affect many jurisdictions at once. First on the list is LHS Associates, a vendor with inside access to every memory card in New Hampshire, as well as to the chips containing the "brain" of the Diebold optical scan machines.

LHS Associates programs all the memory cards in New Hampshire and Connecticut; about all of Vermont's voting machines, and has a lock on almost all of Massachusetts as well.

RARE VIDEO FOOTAGE

In an unusual confluence of available video, we obtained footage of Silvestro grappling with Harri Hursti, the master hacker who had his way with the Diebold optical scans in Leon County, Florida in the famous exploit that was showcased in the film Hacking Democracy.

The exact same make, model and version hacked in the Black Box Voting project in Leon County is used throughout New Hampshire, where about 45 percent of elections administrators hand count paper ballots at the polling place, with the remaining locations all using the Diebold version 1.94w optical scan machine. Because the voting machine locations tend to be urban, this represents about 81 percent of the New Hampshire voters.

The video shows Harri Hursti testifying on Sept. 19 before the New Hampshire legislature, attempting to explain significant vulnerabilities requiring urgent mitigations; throughout his testimony, Silvestro inserted his own comments, opinions, misstatements and speculations.

VOTING MACHINE CHECKUP

One area of disagreement between Hursti and Silvestro was the amount of expertise needed to exploit the Diebold 1.94w optical scan system. Silvestro claimed (in a strange contortion of reasoning) that he doesn't hire very skilled programmers, implying that this makes New Hampshire elections more secure.

Hursti pointed out that hiring programmers with a lack of knowledge is generally not considered a security feature, and also that an average high schooler can learn to exploit the system in two days to two weeks.

WE THINK IT DOESN'T TAKE THAT LONG

Black Box Voting purchased a Diebold optical scan with 1.94w firmware, and chose a computer repair shop out of the phone book, took it in, grabbed the first available technician. It took him less than 10 minutes to zero in on the memory card as a point of critical vulnerability -- and oh my, did he point out some other intersting things!

NEW HAMPSHIRE HASN'T UPGRADED SYSTEM SECURITY

Silvestro tries to claim that the security problems have been fixed in newer editions. Whether or not they have been, it's a moot point in New Hampshire where the upgrade is not made unless the Ballot Law Commission meets, and they have not met for ages.

Silvestro then points to extraordinary measures taken by other states to enact special procedural safeguards, but of course none of those were implemented in New Hampshire either, because the Ballot Law Commission has not bothered to meet since March 2006.

IN FACT, NEW HAMPSHIRE HAS NOT IMPLEMENTED MITIGATIONS FOR KNOWN RISKS

Not only that, they have turned all the programming over to a sole source private company, taking vote counting for 81 percent of New Hampshire citizens out of the public domain.

LHS is not subject to public records requirements, as the government is, at least, not in New Hampshire. The control over memory card contents is absolute; when cards malfunction or get lost, LHS brings the replacements.

Here is the YouTube video containing various footage taken by Black Box Voting and New Hampshire citizens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiiaBqwqkXs

CONTROL OVER THE "BRAINS" OF THE MACHINE: ACCESS TO THE CHIP

Since LHS maintains the machines, repairs the machines, and replaces the machines -- often on Election Day -- when they malfunction, they have intimate access to the chips, sockets, ports, communications devices and other electronic components.

Silvestro stated that the chip has "read only memory" and cannot be reprogrammed without frying it under ultraviolet light overnight.

Hursti never had a chance to examine the hardware, nor have most of the recent university studies had access. But our friendly neighborhood computer repair guy differed with Silvestro on the point of plug & play reprogramming of the guts of the machine.

After I push the button to send this message out to the media and the citizenry, I'll work on getting a short YouTube video of the Accuvote checkup by our local computer repairman. And before you say, "But wait! He's not a world class expert!" -- That's just the point.

He may hit or miss on some of his analyses. You'll all be able to try your hand at second guessing him as soon as the video is up. But if he hits even one of his ideas for how to exploit the machine to steal votes, that's all it takes. From someone who is not, certainly, a world class hacker or even a hacker at all.

I'll post the link to that in a follow up here, and welcome any of you techs to weigh in.

Please feel free to distribute, reprint or excerpt, with link to Black Box Voting and the video link above.
 
If they say it's human error, what are we going to do? Crucify a 70 year old women for forgetting to add the votes? It's a publicity nightmare and HQ is right that we will look like a fringe lunatic canidate.
 
Because you don't blow your whole wad on one state you moron, you lecture me about holding back on certain occasions then completely contradict yourself, not to mention prancing around like some sort of know-it-all about Founding Fathers' analogies, while simultaneously denying those of others with zero explanation. One more bull shit post and you're joining your buddy.

Yet someone else who resorts to name calling instead of discussing the issues. How have I contradicted myself?

1) We have people shouting "fraud". There's no evidence of fraud. There is evidence of a fuck-up. Not the same. Not NEARLY the same.

2) I think someone else pointed out that the CANDIDATE has to demand the recount. Alex Jones cannot, even if he raises the money. Ron Paul would have to do damage to his campaign to fight this battle. Don't blow your wad on one state? You want to blow a whole LOT of positive momentum by claiming voter fraud in ONE PRECINCT!

3) I did not start the founding fathers analogy, but I sure as hell am winning it.
 
Yeah just plug your ears when someone has a different opinion. We are all trying to have civil conversation so we can move this campaign on the right track.


I was talking to Sam- Adams. Are your multiple ID's confusing you?
 
Yet someone else who resorts to name calling instead of discussing the issues. How have I contradicted myself?

1) We have people shouting "fraud". There's no evidence of fraud. There is evidence of a fuck-up. Not the same. Not NEARLY the same.

2) I think someone else pointed out that the CANDIDATE has to demand the recount. Alex Jones cannot, even if he raises the money. Ron Paul would have to do damage to his campaign to fight this battle. Don't blow your wad on one state? You want to blow a whole LOT of positive momentum by claiming voter fraud in ONE PRECINCT!

3) I did not start the founding fathers analogy, but I sure as hell am winning it.

1. Misplacing 31 votes in a small as hell district a mere fuck up? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? Giving someone zero instead of 31.

2. No, I want a recount in EVERY single precinct, and there have been reports from other districts as well that have the big zero number. The entire process of counting votes in private is authoritarian and needs to be challenged, and if now, when? After we've lost?

3. Blocked.
 
Why? Because I'd rather fight this campaign with a positive attitude and not give the media any more reason to beat us over the head?

MOVE ON. We were no where near first. Who cares? A recount is only going to confirm we got fifth and MAYBE fourth, but that's unlikely.

Demanding a recount is possible the MOST damaging thing the Ron Paul campaign could do right now and damn near everyone here knows that.

What's the point of working if the votes don't count? Are you fighting for liberty or not? Liberty includes the right to have your vote counted. Otherwise, why not just declare us the banana republic that we're headed for and call it a day?
 
I was talking to Sam- Adams. Are your multiple ID's confusing?

In that case, let me to retort:

I came here to check out the forums and I did not close my ears. I read 15 or so DIFFERENT THREADS about voter fraud before I posted this. I've NOT closed my ears. There are so many voter fraud threads in this forum that it's blocking out anything else of value.
 
Just wanted to say I agree with you 100% Sam_Adams! Most people here seem to have lost touch with reality, it's refreshing to read a post from a reasonable person.
 
At this point, I have to agree with the OP partially.

Do we have hard evidence that there was voter fraud? Do we have people from Sutton who have put in writing that they voted for Ron Paul, and yet no votes were tabulated for him?

Unless we can _prove_ it at this point, it will just make infuriate the whole process.

If you look at the statistics for the results (on cnn.com), you will see that the chance that Ron Paul would win a vote decreased as the voter got older. In other words, we lost the primary based on voter's age.

So if we are to have _any_ chance of winning Feb 5., we _have_ to appeal to the older demographic (which, by the way, far outnumber the 18-24 group).

Sam_Adams has a point here.

We all have to come to an agreement to improve how this campaign is being conducted because, like it or not, we have the challenge of convincing 50+ year old Republican voters.
 
I'm not claiming that voter fraud does not exist. Please do not think that I'm arguing anything other than the current New Hampshire election.

But, so am I. The point being that diebold machines were used in N.H. It's too easy to rig those machines and there's no paper trail. There should be a re-count based on already publicized information on diebold voting machines and there should be protests against these machines in each and every state and it has to start now! Especially in light of the fact that two counties have admitted that Ron Paul votes weren't counted in the totals.
 
In my opinion, we present the evidence to HQ. They can weigh the costs and benefits.
 
What a coincidence, a brand new spanking ID just made to agree with OP 100%!
 
you guys wondering why we can't break 10% of the vote yet all of you are enough of an explanation. Who wouldn't be turned away by this campaign with so many 9/11 truthers running the show.
 
you guys wondering why we can't break 10% of the vote yet all of you are enough of an explanation. Who wouldn't be turned away by this campaign with so many 9/11 truthers running the show.

HUH!??? Who are you calling a truther! That was an ignorant remark!
 
But, so am I. The point being that diebold machines were used in N.H. It's too easy to rig those machines and there's no paper trail. There should be a re-count based on already publicized information on diebold voting machines and there should be protests against these machines in each and every state and it has to start now! Especially in light of the fact that two counties have admitted that Ron Paul votes weren't counted in the totals.

Deborah...

Please, rationally think about this. Is Ron Paul going to have the political clout at this point to change how the 2008 elections are ran? No.

EVERYONE:

1) I LOVE Ron Paul's platform. I am not a troll. I've tried to not resort to name calling as others have. Ron Paul does NOT have the political capital to spend contesting an election that does not matter in the long run.

2) I am compltelely against secret ballot counting, the use of computers with no paper trail, and the rules that block or hamper independent recounts and observers during elections.

3) All I am saying is that at this point, Ron Paul has picked up some great momentum and that challenging this ONE ELECTION is not going to cause the powers that be to ditch their diebold machines for the 2008 election. It's just NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
 
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