Voter Fraud Conspiracies

[morerocklesstalk]

I love how some people are just simple ignoring intelligent arguements, rather than making reasonable counter points.

Take this point...Say the campaign DOES call for a recount and it proves that the count was...Accurate? Then, the media and other campaigns can rail against RP for the needless complaint when there was no real evidence of fraud. Again, if I missed something other than that one county, please show me.

Remember, I am one of those 'average, intelligent' people we need to be reaching out to. I am not blind or I would not be here. But, if even I can not see an issue yet, where does it put us with those who would be fence sitters?

We need even tempered people like you to run grassroots efforts.

 

[Sam_Adams]

I think the people are entitled to a fair recount. Obviously there were voting irregularities. I wouldn't put anything past it, considering the circumstances. I smell a troll post.

This is NOT a troll post. I'm a Ron Paul supporter who's concerned that there are already too many "lunatic" articles out there.

This is not a good position to be in. Challenging the vote in NH looks bad and WILL cost votes later. Ron Paul is already anti-establishment on EVERY ISSUE. That is why I support him. I wish that the elections were run in a more transparent manner, but we don't need to be adding this to the growing list of anti-establishment issues right now.

At the grass roots level, I say give the poll workers HELL. I do NOT support the Ron Paul campaign asking for a recount.

Put me on ignore if you like. It just proves that you're just as closed minded as the other candidates supporters.

 

[Sam_Adams]

We need even tempered people like you to run grassroots efforts.

That is EXACTLY my point.

 

[wongster]

They have to certify the vote totals as being correct before they send them in. They have to count the number of votes the have total against the number of people signing in to vote.

There is no way that those numbers could have matched up but they certified the vote count and sent it in anyway. That constitutes fraud. Regardless of whether it was a mistake or intentional doesn't matter. Once you certify the numbers and send them in saying they are true and correct, and they aren't, that's fraud. It is a misrepresentation or distortion of the truth, regardless of malice or intent.

QFT

 

[morerocklesstalk]

That is EXACTLY my point.

I totally agree with you on the topic. I feel too many of us are trapped in this internet-style world. We need finesse and a reasonable approach in the real world for any decent success.

 

[Sam_Adams]

They have to certify the vote totals as being correct before they send them in. They have to count the number of votes the have total against the number of people signing in to vote.

There is no way that those numbers could have matched up but they certified the vote count and sent it in anyway. That constitutes fraud. Regardless of whether it was a mistake or intentional doesn't matter. Once you certify the numbers and send them in saying they are true and correct, and they aren't, that's fraud. It is a misrepresentation or distortion of the truth, regardless of malice or intent.

No, it constitutes a fuck-up. You still have not proven intent.

In criminal law, fraud is the crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them – usually, to obtain property or services unjustly. [1] Fraud can be accomplished through the aid of forged objects. In the criminal law of common law jurisdictions it may be called "theft by deception," "larceny by trick," "larceny by fraud and deception" or something similar.

Where is the proof of this being deliberate?

 

[Catatonic]

For those of you claiming voter fraud, seeing images of Satan in the numbers, etc....

Why would you want to go bitter this early in the campaign?
Why give the press more ammunition to beat us over the head with?

A recount MIGHT move us into 4th place, but that's unlikely. So, do you want the media ABSOLUTELY REAMING Ron Paul for demanding a recount when we were tens of THOUSANDS of votes short of first?

Please, move on. Focus on the issues and spreading the word. Right now, all you're doing is making this campaign look like a bunch of bitter loonies are in the crowd.

Beware disinfo shills. Notice this guy is trying to associate proven treasenous fraud with crazy theories and black magic crap, then trying to fear monger you into accepting said fraud without question because it might look bad.

The MSM has already proven itself to be against the American people, big surprise. If they want to call me crazy for not wanting my vote in the trash they can go right ahead.

People like you aren't any better than they are. We need patriots, not cowards.

 

[werdd]

For those of you claiming voter fraud, seeing images of Satan in the numbers, etc....

Why would you want to go bitter this early in the campaign?
Why give the press more ammunition to beat us over the head with?

A recount MIGHT move us into 4th place, but that's unlikely. So, do you want the media ABSOLUTELY REAMING Ron Paul for demanding a recount when we were tens of THOUSANDS of votes short of first?

Please, move on. Focus on the issues and spreading the word. Right now, all you're doing is making this campaign look like a bunch of bitter loonies are in the crowd.

I agree with you, i dont think the campaign should do it, i think that we should privately fund it. Alex jones is apparently going to raise funds for it.

 

[Bossobass]

These pathetic accusations against those of us who understand the gravity of stolen elections is truly getting on my nerves.

Today, only what I've heard myself:

Diane Ream on NPR had a one hour segment on voter fraud with guests who>>>get this<<< had lots of evidence (imagine!).

Rush Limbaugh devoted a large portion of his show to the mention of 'dead people voting, people being bussed in from other states, voters with fake IDs, media manipulations', etc., etc.

George McGovern was interviewed and said, among other things, that he has never been convinced that George Bush actually won either the 2000 or the 2004 elections.

Seems that everyone in America can talk about vote fraud EXCEPT RON PAUL SUPPORTERS IN THEIR OWN F***KING FORUM.

To those who are suddenly absolutely unqualified vote count experts who feel the obviously irresistible need to chide those of us who have a working brain in our heads, take a hike and let the grownups talk in peace.

Bosso

 

[Balden]

...

All we ask is that the votes be counted. Are you that afraid of the media? You're so scared that every little thing we do will earn us hatred, that you're too scared to ensure a fair election.

And you call yourself 'Sam Adams'.

 

[Sam_Adams]

Beware disinfo shills. Notice this guy is trying to associate proven treasenous fraud with crazy theories and black magic crap,

Wow, now I'm a shill for espousing a REASONABLE arguement? We've got people yelling for recounts, claiming voter fraud, claiming that there is a conspiracy because Giuliani gor 9.11% (rounded) in three counties.

See what I mean? I'm not a disinfo shill. Prove ONE PLACE where I've provided disinformation. PROVE THE FRAUD.

 

[hells_unicorn]

That is EXACTLY my point.

The man who's name you've chosen for your ID does not qualify as even tempered. Do you call forcing your way onto British ships dressed like Indians and dumping tea in a clear act of vandalism qualifies as this "play it safe" attitude that you have? Do you call all of the other acts of vandalism that the Sons of Liberty engaged in even tempered?

We don't need meet-up leaders who are even headed, we need meet-up leaders with balls, and that disqualifies both you and the person you are responding to.

P.S. - We are calling for an investigation to PROVE that fraud took place. We don't have proof positive, but we evidence of an irregularity that DEMANDS further investigation. If someone says that there is a nickel under your shoe and you demand that they prove it before you lift your foot, you have essentially done what you are doing here. You can not prove anything until you investigate. And for the record, I also think you are a troll, for this very reason.

 

[Sam_Adams]

These pathetic accusations against those of us who understand the gravity of stolen elections is truly getting on my nerves.

Today, only what I've heard myself:

Diane Ream on NPR had a one hour segment on voter fraud with guests who>>>get this<<< had lots of evidence (imagine!).

Rush Limbaugh devoted a large portion of his show to the mention of 'dead people voting, people being bussed in from other states, voters with fake IDs, media manipulations', etc., etc.

George McGovern was interviewed and said, among other things, that he has never been convinced that George Bush actually won either the 2000 or the 2004 elections.

Seems that everyone in America can talk about vote fraud EXCEPT RON PAUL SUPPORTERS IN THEIR OWN F***KING FORUM.

To those who are suddenly absolutely unqualified vote count experts who feel the obviously irresistible need to chide those of us who have a working brain in our heads, take a hike and let the grownups talk in peace.

Bosso

Grown-ups? Are you grown up enough to consider the ramifications of challenging the vote? Obviously NOT.

 

[Sam_Adams]

The man who's name you've chosen for your ID does not qualify as even tempered. Do you call forcing your way onto British ships dressed like Indians and dumping tea in a clear act of vandalism qualifies as this "play it safe" attitude that you have? Do you call all of the other acts of vandalism that the Sons of Liberty engaged in even tempered?

We don't need meet-up leaders who are even headed, we need meet-up leaders with balls, and that disqualifies both you and the person you are responding to.

P.S. - We are calling for an investigation to PROVE that fraud took place. We don't have proof positive, but we evidence of an irregularity that DEMANDS further investigation. If someone says that there is a nickel under your shoe and you demand that they prove it before you lift your foot, you have essentially done what you are doing here. You can not prove anything until you investigate. And for the record, I also think you are a troll, for this very reason.

Even the Founding Fathers had a sense of timing with their attacks against the establishment. Washington retreated MANY times before defeating the British.

 

[TinaBopper]

Greenville reported ZERO votes for Paul here:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/nh/nh_primary_gop_results_by_town/




But here Greenville has "found" 25 votes for Paul:
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=news0807



These are the obvious mistakes because the original vote tally for Paul were ZERO so it was easy to see a discrepancy lied within.

How about the other towns with votes tallied for Paul? Are they to be considered accurate just because there is a number of votes registered for Paul?

 

[hells_unicorn]

Grown-ups? Are you grown up enough to consider the ramifications of challenging the vote? Obviously NOT.

If you don't challenge a vote that clearly has problems, you are a coward and unworthy of living in a free society. If your vote doesn't count and you do not protest, you have given your approval for your own slave chains. "Give me Liberty or give me death!!" might be a little to risky for you, I'd bet you would have talked Patrick Henry out of writing that because it had too many negative ramifications.

 

[Catatonic]

Wow, now I'm a shill for espousing a REASONABLE arguement? We've got people yelling for recounts, claiming voter fraud, claiming that there is a conspiracy because Giuliani gor 9.11% (rounded) in three counties.

See what I mean? I'm not a disinfo shill. Prove ONE PLACE where I've provided disinformation. PROVE THE FRAUD.

How is changing a vote count not fraud?

You should put your money where your mouth is and call the people in Sutton county that had their votes trashed? Let them know you don't appreciate their crazy conspiracy theories, etc etc. Be sure to record it and put it on youtube for the rest of us.

 

[hells_unicorn]

Even the Founding Fathers had a sense of timing with their attacks against the establishment. Washington retreated MANY times before defeating the British.

Washington was not fighting fraud, he was fighting soldiers, the metaphor does not hold up. See the writings of the early radicals like Patrick Henry and your guy Sam Adams for a more accurate comparison.

 

[VoluntaryMan]

A recount MIGHT move us into 4th place, but that's unlikely. So, do you want the media ABSOLUTELY REAMING Ron Paul for demanding a recount when we were tens of THOUSANDS of votes short of first?

The way I understand it, the purpose of the recount would be to establish "irregularitities," not to contest McCain's victory. Any time there is mischief, it should be addressed, whether by the 1st place finisher or by the last. Honestly, though, when has the winner ever disputed the count? It is always characterized as "sour grapes." So what?

 

[Sam_Adams]

The man who's name you've chosen for your ID does not qualify as even tempered. Do you call forcing your way onto British ships dressed like Indians and dumping tea in a clear act of vandalism qualifies as this "play it safe" attitude that you have? Do you call all of the other acts of vandalism that the Sons of Liberty engaged in even tempered?

We don't need meet-up leaders who are even headed, we need meet-up leaders with balls, and that disqualifies both you and the person you are responding to.

P.S. - We are calling for an investigation to PROVE that fraud took place. We don't have proof positive, but we evidence of an irregularity that DEMANDS further investigation. If someone says that there is a nickel under your shoe and you demand that they prove it before you lift your foot, you have essentially done what you are doing here. You can not prove anything until you investigate. And for the record, I also think you are a troll, for this very reason.

Call me a troll. I've already been called worse. All I'm saying is that there is a time and a place and claiming voter "fraud" when there is evidence of none is not helping the cause.

Was there a mistake? Yes, OBVIOUSLY there was a mistake. Was it intentional? We don't know but those who purport to espouse liberty and the constitution have already judged this woman guilty before anything has been proven.

So, really, all the folks running around screaming "fraud" while ignoring the definition of fraud, and the consequences of this action down the road, are going to cause damage. Not only that, but they are so apparently closed minded that they resort to name calling instead of discussing the ramifications of what they're asking for.