Teenager killed by neighborhood watch captain

[phill4paul]

Zimmerman is the reason why the liberals have an anti-gun agenda. He's the kinda guy they point the finger at and say SEE we need gun control. Fuck him. He's a douche. He should be in prison awaiting a bond hearing. But, the cops had a friend. They screwed the pooch trying to cover for him.
He was specifically told NOT to leave his vehicle and interact. He chose to. AFTER he was getting his ass kicked because he thought he was Billy-Bad-Ass he decided he needed to shoot an UNARMED teenager.
It's guys like him that keep guys like me from open carrying.

 

[Voluntary Man]

Speaking about a story in the news is acting like a pimp?

Pandering is acting like a pimp.

 

[MelissaWV]

It was the armed man screaming, because the armed man was getting pummeled while he was pinned to the ground.

According to whom? Our one and only eyewitness, in his statement published the day after the shooting:

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4

Zimmerman stopped screaming because he finally wasn't being beaten any more.

Strange, because after being beaten so savagely, he had a bloody nose and a little blood on the back of his head.

What part of "do not interact" and the fact that there was zero reason to be driving around following a kid because he was wearing a hoodie in the rain ... is unclear? Aren't these arguments usually made at trial? There isn't going to be one. The cops get to decide, on site, whether or not to believe the self defense claim.

THAT should piss EVERYONE off, but yet we have defenders of the outcome even here.

 

[Voluntary Man]

You're right. However, cases like this give Dr. Paul an opportunity to explain how and why individual liberty and States' rights are in the best interest of those who suffer from racist brutality and institutionalized racism among local and state police forces.

Can you clarify? An example of what?

An example of a public statement you think it would be prudent for Ron to make on the matter.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I'm just getting up to speed on this story, so RPFer's, help me out here, please.

Is this about the long and short of it?

1 - Shooter was a wanna be cop.

2 - Shooter was a "neighborhood watch" captain, i.e. - a buttinsky.

3 - Shooter had a long history of calling cops for the slightest thing.

4 - Shooter started following this kid, after being told by 911 not to follow him.

5 - Shooter kills the kid dead, after claiming the victim "had something in his hand".

6 - Shooter walks, after cops give him a "wink wink, nudge nudge".

7 - Outrage follows as the story is broken, not by the "media" but by the blogosphere.

8 - Summation - If Zimmerman had not acted like a jackass and waited until he got a government badge and uniform, he'd be on paid vacation right now.

 

[Voluntary Man]

Zimmerman is the reason why the liberals have an anti-gun agenda. He's the kinda guy they point the finger at and say SEE we need gun control. Fuck him. He's a douche. He should be in prison awaiting a bond hearing. But, the cops had a friend. They screwed the pooch trying to cover for him.
He was specifically told NOT to leave his vehicle and interact. He chose to. AFTER he was getting his ass kicked because he thought he was Billy-Bad-Ass he decided he needed to shoot an UNARMED teenager.
It's guys like him that keep guys like me from open carrying.

No. Their agenda is independent of rationalization. He's just one of the many rationalizations the anti-2nd Amendment crowd will resort to. Their motivations are no more noble than the motivation of the medieval lords disarming serfs. Only the propaganda has changed.

 

[smhbbag]

Strange, because after being beaten so savagely, he had a bloody nose and a little blood on the back of his head.

Being pinned to the ground and getting punched is no laughing matter. It is a real threat to both life and limb, and justifies a lethal response if one is available.

5 - Shooter kills the kid dead, after claiming the victim "had something in his hand".

No, 5 should be "shooter and shootee get into a physical confrontation and we don't know how it started. An eyewitness says the shooter was pinned to the ground and getting beaten when he shot his attacker."

 

[cstarace]

No, 5 should be "shooter and shootee get into a physical confrontation and we don't know how it started. An eyewitness says the shooter was pinned to the ground and getting beaten when he shot his attacker."

Bullshit, we do know how it was started. Zimmerman approached Trayvon in an aggressive manner (after being told NOT TO BY POLICE) because he was black. Not to mention, Zimmerman weighed 100 lbs. more than Trayvon. I find this version of events highly unlikely.

 

[Voluntary Man]

A kid in America is dead and shot for no reason and the authorities are letting the guy who did it walk away free.

We have 100 other threads talking about the war in Afghanistan. I don't think there is a correlation here.

Yet, the president [Obama/Bush] has attended how many funerals?

 

[smhbbag]

Bullshit, we do know how it was started. Zimmerman approached Trayvon in an aggressive manner (after being told NOT TO BY POLICE) because he was black. Not to mention, Zimmerman weighed 100 lbs. more than Trayvon. I find this version of events highly unlikely.

I'll ignore the race-baiting.

Do you know who threw the first punch? Do you know if either ever tried to walk away at any point? Who engaged in the first "fighting words" (note: rudeness and demanding to know why Trayvon is there is not necessarily 'fighting words')?

You don't know the answers to any of those.

Zimmerman did weigh maybe 100 lbs more than Trayvon. So you have a 5'9, morbidly obese waddler against a 6'1 or so high school football player who is 17. Older, fatter, shorter guy with a BMI of nearly 40 against a high school athlete. That's not a fair fight, and it's no wonder that Trayvon came out on top (literally, as in, on top of him and still swinging).

 

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

This is bullshit imagine if your just walking in your neighborhood and some idiot comes and attacks you then shoots you. Put this pieice of shit in jail. Fuck the liberals and race baiters that are using this for their own personal gain, justice is needed in this.

 

[smhbbag]

This is bullshit imagine if your just walking in your neighborhood and some idiot comes and attacks you then shoots you. Put this pieice of shit in jail. Fuck the liberals and race baiters that are using this for their own personal gain, justice is needed in this.

Where is the evidence that Zimmerman attacked anyone?

 

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Where is the evidence that Zimmerman attacked anyone?

Go listen to the tapes, Zimmerman was obviously the aggressor? Where is the evidence that this kid was the aggressor? What weapon did this kid have? A knife, a gun, and bat, a big stick? Nothing! This is bullshit. I dont care if was a citizen or a cop, he killed a human being for no damn reason. Was he injured, was he being harmed? Where is the evidence of that?

This guy needs to be charged. This is very terrible tragedy regardless or race, sex or creed, this about human life and creation of a police state. A kid cant walk in his own neighborhood without being harassed. The kid's girlfriend who he was one phone with at the time said he was terrified of some stange guy following him? why didnt he just identifiy himself as the neighborhood watch?

Where is Travon's right to life and liberty?

 

[Ender]

Where is the evidence that Zimmerman attacked anyone?

I think there is plenty of evidence that Zimmerman stalked the kid.

He was on his phone with his girlfriend talking about it- then wham.

 

[rag-time4]

An example of a public statement you think it would be prudent for Ron to make on the matter.

Great question. As I see it, the mass protests surrounding the issue are a great example of how liberty and the God given rights of free expression, petitioning the government, and peaceable assembly have allowed concerned people to apply pressure to government. Perhaps Dr. Paul can comment on how as President, he would defend these rights and would not allow those who organize and protest to be labelled terrorist and subject to assassination. He could also point out that the mainstream policies of Republicans and Democrats are leading to an environment where a racist President could do such things as is done in so many other countries with US support.

 

[smhbbag]

Was he injured, was he being harmed? Where is the evidence of that?

Where is the evidence Zimmerman was being harmed? Are you serious? There is only one eyewitness, and the center of his account is that Trayvon had pinned Zimmerman down and was punching him. The eyewitness yelled for Trayvon to stop beating him, and Trayvon didn't stop. So the witness called 911.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4

A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.


Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1q0CP0APS

Zimmerman was the one screaming for help in the background of the 911 call. Within a day of the incident, police had played the 911 tape for Trayvon's father, and Trayvon's father confirmed the screaming was NOT his son's voice. All this is in the reports.

But politically-useful narrative overrules fact, so all the news discussions involve plenty of things EXCEPT the ONE eyewitness we have.

 

[Anti Federalist]

No, 5 should be "shooter and shootee get into a physical confrontation and we don't know how it started. An eyewitness says the shooter was pinned to the ground and getting beaten when he shot his attacker."

Unless I'm missing something here, long before there was any confrontation of any kind, he (Zimmerman) was on the phone with 911 dispatch describing the kid's appearance and actions.

When it became clear that Zimmerman was following this kid, the dispatcher told him not to, to "stand down" for all intents and purposes.

There is no legal justification for use of deadly force when you go looking for an altercation.

Until recently in fact, you were, in many jurisdictions, required to attempt to flee before using deadly force.

"Stand your ground" and "Castle Doctrine" laws still would not justify what appears to have happened here, regardless of what happened after the fact.

If someone was stalking around behind me and calling the cops reporting on me, he'd get punch in the face as well.

 

[Ender]

Unless I'm missing something here, long before there was any confrontation of any kind, he (Zimmerman) was on the phone with 911 dispatch describing the kid's appearance and actions.

When it became clear that Zimmerman was following this kid, the dispatcher told him not to, to "stand down" for all intents and purposes.

There is no legal justification for use of deadly force when you go looking for an altercation.

Until recently in fact, you were, in many jurisdictions, required to attempt to flee before using deadly force.

"Stand your ground" and "Castle Doctrine" laws still would not justify what appears to have happened here, regardless of what happened after the fact.

If someone was stalking around behind me and calling the cops reporting on me, he'd get punch in the face as well.

1000%

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

But here's how the law could/should be clarified.

1) Initiating a disturbance negates the self defense presumption.

I'm fairly certain that's how it is anyway, although I don't have a law I can quote. If someone commits a homicide after escalating a situation, I presume they will face charges in FL.

As far as your other suggestion about disproportionate force, I disagree. When attacked or even sufficiently threatened, I don't think I should have to estimate what injuries I'll sustain and then decide whether to fistfight, grab mace, grab a knife, or a gun. My first choice is an exit. But if that isn't realistic, I should be able to protect myself from bodily injury by whatever means I have. For example, there's another story in FL where a 14 year old kid raped and beat a woman so badly, she'll need reconstructive surgery. I don't see how she should have had a burden to predict what her injuries would be.

 

[Voluntary Man]

Great question. As I see it, the mass protests surrounding the issue are a great example of how liberty and the God given rights of free expression, petitioning the government, and peaceably assemble have allowed concerned people to apply pressure to government. Perhaps Dr. Paul can comment on how as President, he would defend these rights and would not allow those who organize and protest to be labelled terrorist and subject to assassination. He could also point out that the mainstream policies of Republicans and Democrats are leading to an environment where a racist President could do such things as is done in so many other countries with US support.

I can get with that. Ron has made statements, throughout his public life, on the disproportionate racial impact of many unjust laws (e.g., "the war on drugs" and "the war on poverty").