Teenager killed by neighborhood watch captain

[BlackTerrel]

Universal condemnation, assumption of guilt, and claims of understood intent: this thread sure is an interesting read.

I don't know any more about this case than is posted in this thread, but if the guy wasn't arrested at the scene or in the following month after/during the investigation, there has to be some compelling information. I do know that I'm not going to be whipped into a fury by Al Sharpton and the Huffington Post; I'd rather wait and see.

How do you claim self defense when you get out of your car and then chase down an unarmed man while you are packing heat?

This story stinks to the core.

 

[MelissaWV]

Universal condemnation, assumption of guilt, and claims of understood intent: this thread sure is an interesting read.

I don't know any more about this case than is posted in this thread, but if the guy wasn't arrested at the scene or in the following month after/during the investigation, there has to be some compelling information. I do know that I'm not going to be whipped into a fury by Al Sharpton and the Huffington Post; I'd rather wait and see.

There is the repeated assertion that he acted in self-defense, but it seems to be pretty baseless in a very obvious way. No one is saying this guy should be hanged without a trial, but there's a lot of evidence to suggest there should at least be a trial. The 9-1-1 tape, the girlfriend's testimony (the police did not want to talk to her) that the victim said he was being watched/followed, the fact the kid wasn't actually armed, the fact the guy was told NOT to follow the kid, etc.. It all seems rather off-kilter. The police also did not run toxicology on someone whose speech was kind of iffy and claiming that a teen was essentially threatening him with a bag of Skittles.

In the meantime, on the other side of things, you have someone serving around a decade behind bars for setting up a webcam to tape his roommate having sex.

Something is very wrong here.

There are very few instances where someone dies at your hands, and you don't even get charged with anything.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

I wonder how many of the innocent children Obama has summarily sentenced to death in places like Pakistan and elsewhere, "looked like the son(s) he never had"?

Sick, disgusting pig. And you can quote me on that, feds.

 

[BlackTerrel]

I wonder how many of the innocent children Obama has summarily sentenced to death in places like Pakistan and elsewhere, "looked like the son(s) he never had"?

Sick, disgusting pig. And you can quote me on that, feds.

He's a sick disgusting pig because he commented on a teenager that got shot in cold blood? What exactly is he supposed to say?

 

[Danke]

He's a sick disgusting pig because he commented on a teenager that got shot in cold blood? What exactly is he supposed to say?

In these situations, Hypocrites should keep their mouths shut.

 

[onlyrp]

He's a sick disgusting pig because he commented on a teenager that got shot in cold blood? What exactly is he supposed to say?

He's a sick disgusting pig because he doesn't make the same comment whenever a kid dies? What does that say?

 

[rag-time4]

Has Dr. Paul made any statements or answered any questions on this case? The media has put responses from the other three Republican candidates out there but not Dr. Paul. I read a CBSnews.com piece that said the Paul campaign was contacted but did not respond.

 

[Voluntary Man]

Has Dr. Paul made any statements or answered any questions on this case? The media has put responses from the other three Republican candidates out there but not Dr. Paul. I read a CBSnews.com piece that said the Paul campaign was contacted but did not respond.

Ron has too much class to act like a pimp.

 

[rag-time4]

Ron has too much class to act like a pimp.

My sense is that Dr. Paul might say some uncomfortable truths. I think he needs to do more to convince black and brown voters, many of whom are terrified of States' rights, that his position would be in the best interest of black people in a case like this.

 

[economics102]

No self defense presumption for a disproportionate use of force. I call this the "take your beating like a man" clause. Zimmerman shot Travon because he was getting his butt whupped. If Travon had pulled a knife or gun that would be a different story. Which reminds me. I wonder how this would be playing out in the legal system and the media now if Travon had pulled a gun when he saw Zimmerman pulling his and killed Zimmerman? That would arguably be a better self defense claim. But would Travon now be facing murder charges as a young black male who killed a neighborhood watch captain?

I agree with everything you said except for the above quote.

In matters of self-defense I think claims of disproportional defense should face a very high barrier. I'm not going to go so far as to say it should NEVER be a relevant argument but very rarely I think.

People die all the time from getting hit with one wrong punch or a punch that knocks them out and sends them head-first into the pavement, etc. I know (knew) people who have died in exactly this way. And even when not fatal, people can be very seriously injured in weapon-less physical fights.

More importantly, let's say I'm the one being attacked and I believe my likely injuries will be limited to a broken rib or something minor like that. If I have the ability to prevent someone from breaking my rib by using lethal force, I should have every right to take such action. If my assailant's rationale is that he's willing to attack me using non-lethal violence on the grounds that he's willing to suffer injuries, but he's not going to use lethal threat of violence because he doesn't want to risk death -- well that's just bunk, because *I* would prefer not to be attacked at all!

In my view any individual who initiates any level of violence against another person loses the right to decide how that violence is escalated.

On the same note, I think the punishment for physical assault, even when it doesn't result in serious injuries, should be closer in line to the punishment for murder/manslaughter. I think it's a flaw in the way society thinks about the importance of liberty that, for example, they don't think decking someone in the face is a serious crime, especially if it doesn't result in serious injury. In my view when you initiate violence, 99% of your "crime" is violating the principle, only 1% is the actual level of carnage that results from your aggression.

 

[tod evans]

My sense is that Dr. Paul might say some uncomfortable truths. I think he needs to do more to convince black and brown voters, many of whom are terrified of States' rights, that his position would be in the best interest of black people in a case like this.

Ron doesn't pander to any group of people, he has said over and over "It's all about individual liberty."

 

[Voluntary Man]

My sense is that Dr. Paul might say some uncomfortable truths. I think he needs to do more to convince black and brown voters, many of whom are terrified of States' rights, that his position would be in the best interest of black people in a case like this.

Can you provide an in-character example?

 

[cartemj06]

I find myself thinking about this story and wondering what actually happened. I heard the 911 tape, read a few news articles and the story is just fragmented and ond offered back in little pieces. One side of me is wondering if this will bring about the call to dis-arm citizens. I also wonder What the kid was up to if anything maybe he was just minding his own business maybe he wasn't no one knows for sure. The kid is being painted as a martyr and the the shooter as an authoritarian slime ball. This may be the case, it may not be, but we just don't have the info to make that decision yet and cooler heads should be asking questions not casting judgement calls. The media has written a narrative, the masses are in a stir and even people who don't know the story are judging the actions of both parties no one wants to be the 'ignoramus' who doesn't know. The fact is none of us know what happened. We all want to appear informed and some want to be the righteous champions of an issue or are motivated to make this story fit their issue. One thing that I can say confidently is that situations like this unfold in uncanny ways, some rapidly spiral out of control while some slowly unwind and others seem to resolve without any dramatic turns whatsoever.

There is a reason that Law enforcement officers are trained to anticipate the worse possible turn of events. If you wait until you need your gun to unholster it you won't have it in your hand when you need it, you will have it in your hand seconds after you needed it and maybe too late. I want to make myself clear here, I am not defending either man in this case, I am advocating for a healthy dose of skepticism regarding any report on this story. If we don't trust the media to fairly report an election when all the facts are there to be seen how can we conclude that they are being honest with us on anything else?

 

[BlackTerrel]

He's a sick disgusting pig because he doesn't make the same comment whenever a kid dies? What does that say?

Is he asked about every kid in the world who has died? There are 6 billion people on earth I don't think it's fair to ask the President to comment on every one of them.

In this situation in what is a national story of injustice I think it's perfectly appropriate for the President to give an opinion.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Ron has too much class to act like a pimp.

Speaking about a story in the news is acting like a pimp?

 

[MelissaWV]

So your notion of fairness is to trust that this guy was threatened by a kid who was found not to have any weapon at all, and who the shooter followed (not the other way around)?

I am perfectly willing to think that the situation could have escalated very rapidly into something awful once the shooter confronted the teen. There is no reason to think that a teen being thus confronted by someone he'd seen following him and watching him (per his call to the girlfriend) would act polite and not be pissed off. There's definitely the potential that a young, athletic person made some kind of threatening move towards the shooter.

Of course, this was after the shooter admittedly followed the kid around. This was after the kid went and bought some Skittles, which was about the most threatening thing found on his corpse. This was after the diatribe on the 9-1-1 tape.

It stinks to high heaven, and some of us are not relying on "media reports."

People are arrested daily for so much less.

Should this have led to such mass-protests? No, but it should have at least led to an arrest.

 

[Voluntary Man]

Is he asked about every kid in the world who has died? There are 6 billion people on earth I don't think it's fair to ask the President to comment on every one of them.

In this situation in what is a national story of injustice I think it's perfectly appropriate for the President to give an opinion.

I believe his point may have been that the wars in [fill in the blank] are international stories, over which the president has direct oversight....yet no comment.

 

[BlackTerrel]

I believe his point may have been that the wars in [fill in the blank] are international stories, over which the president has direct oversight....yet no comment.

A kid in America is dead and shot for no reason and the authorities are letting the guy who did it walk away free.

We have 100 other threads talking about the war in Afghanistan. I don't think there is a correlation here.

 

[rag-time4]

Ron doesn't pander to any group of people, he has said over and over "It's all about individual liberty."

You're right. However, cases like this give Dr. Paul an opportunity to explain how and why individual liberty and States' rights are in the best interest of those who suffer from racist brutality and institutionalized racism among local and state police forces.

Can you provide an in-character example?

Can you clarify? An example of what?

 

[smhbbag]

You can hear the someone screaming (I'm not saying it was the kid, but why would an armed man be screaming like that?) in the background, and then it stops abruptly with the gunshot.

It was the armed man screaming, because the armed man was getting pummeled while he was pinned to the ground.

According to whom? Our one and only eyewitness, in his statement published the day after the shooting:

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4

Zimmerman stopped screaming because he finally wasn't being beaten any more.