Pledge of Allegiance/National Anthem

[staerker]

There are few public events that you can go to without encountering one of these rituals.

I have known for about a year or two that participating in these rituals is immoral. It is state worship at it's best. And for the same amount of time, I haven't actively participated in them. I wouldn't sing the song, recite the words, or place my hand on my chest. But I would stand. Mostly for fear of causing a scene. But I'm over that now, I view standing out of respect as more worship than the state deserves.

I have fantasized about offering a Bellamy Salute during these rituals, but my non-confrontational side always reels me back in. In the end, I don't want to cause a scene, or even make a statement. I just don't want to worship the state. And because of that, next time everyone rises, I'll remain seated.

Wish me luck!

 

[Ronin Truth]

Yeah, we need more martyrs.

 

[Legend1104]

There are few public events that you can go to without encountering one of these rituals.

I have known for about a year or two that participating in these rituals is immoral. It is state worship at it's best. And for the same amount of time, I haven't actively participated in them. I wouldn't sing the song, recite the words, or place my hand on my chest. But I would stand. Mostly for fear of causing a scene. But I'm over that now, I view standing out of respect as more worship than the state deserves.

I have fantasized about offering a Bellamy Salute during these rituals, but my non-confrontational side always reels me back in. In the end, I don't want to cause a scene, or even make a statement. I just don't want to worship the state. And because of that, next time everyone rises, I'll remain seated.

Wish me luck!

Well if that is the way you feel then by all means do what you feel is right. Having said that, I do not believe in forced symbolism. Just because one thing has a given symbolic meaning today by one group of people does not mean that I have to agree with that meaning. Take the rebel flag for example. Many people say that it is offensive because it symbolizes racism and slavery, but that is not how I see it. I like the flag because to me it represents people fighting against oppressive government and I don't support the racial aspects of it so I can choose to honor the glorious aspects of this group of people, while refusing to honor the other area that they were so wrong on. Funny by the way how those same statists who denounce the rebel flag because they have chosen to highlight the racial issue, still support the American flag which you could also claim is evil and racist because there was slavery under that flag and also because the American government murdered thousands of Indians as well. Since nothing is ever simply black and white, it is not fair for one group to attach a symbol to something and force it upon others. So, when I am asked to say the pledge or sing the anthem, I have no problem. This is because when I say the pledge, I am pledging to what the pledge states it stands for, "The Republic." I gladly give my support to the Republic that was given to us by our founders. The idea of a government that stands to protect the rights of it's people, that is admirable and what the founders did is worthy of my respect. Thus, I salute that effort. I do not respect the America that we currently have and I refuse to pledge to that. I do refuse to say "indivisible" because that is not part of the Republic that I support. With the Anthem, it was originally created as a song to remember the efforts of those brave Americans who fought for the continued existence of the American Republic that our founders gave. I also choose to support that because I want to honor those men and women that have truly died for the preservation of the Republic and it's stated goals. I do not sing the anthem to support the big evil warmongering government that some want me too. When I sing the anthem I choose to sing to that other glorious cause.

 

[Brett85]

I haven't decided to make a scene and not say the pledge or not stand up for the national anthem, but when you think about it specifically from a Christian perspective, I think that those of us who are Christians should only pledge our allegiance to Jesus Christ.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I try not to make a scene. I usually just stand and stay silent.

 

[staerker]

I haven't decided to make a scene and not say the pledge or not stand up for the national anthem, but when you think about it specifically from a Christian perspective, I think that those of us who are Christians should only pledge our allegiance to Jesus Christ.

I try not to make a scene. I usually just stand and stay silent.

And yes, that is the dilemma. I sincerely do not want to make a scene. I just want to enjoy the ball game.

But our hands are forced, and I've decided for myself that even standing (just like bowing, or bending the knee) is an undue recognition of praise/authority.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

This federal lawsuit was filed April 15, 2009 on behalf of a Queens man who was ejected from the old Yankee Stadium after trying to use the restroom during “God Bless America.”

Includes judgment text, which included 10k settlement for Campeau-Laurion from the city of New York.

http://www.nyclu.org/case/campeau-l...artnership-et-al-challenging-forced-patriotis


So, big deal. The lice get away with nonsense. Nothing happens to them. Citizens foot the bill.

Seems to me that more voting, more strongly worded letters, more cameras, and more lawsuits will not get it done.

 

[erowe1]

This is because when I say the pledge, I am pledging to what the pledge states it stands for, "The Republic."

What about "indivisible"?

Also, what republic?

 

[Ronin Truth]

I try not to make a scene. I usually just stand and stay silent.

Ditto! +rep

 

[William Tell]

I let on that I say the pledge, never have actually said it yet though. Sometimes I just mumble, or pray for God to have mercy on this country.

 

[staerker]

I let on that I say the pledge, never have actually said it yet though. Sometimes I just mumble, or pray for God to have mercy on this country.

But don't you think that that is cowardly? If something is right, then do it. If it is wrong, you shouldn't pretend to do it so that your state-worshiping friends think that you're worshiping the state too.

Again, completely non-judgmental, as I am just now waiting for the chance to do this for the first time.

I do understand being able to stand without a defiant mindset. But at the same time, the ritual is too strong for me to not completely distance myself from any longer.

 

[William Tell]

But don't you think that that is cowardly? If something is right, then do it. If it is wrong, you shouldn't pretend to do it so that your state-worshiping friends think that you're worshiping the state too.

Again, completely non-judgmental, as I am just now waiting for the chance to do this for the first time.

I do understand being able to stand without a defiant mindset. But at the same time, the ritual is too strong for me to not completely distance myself from any longer.

I totally understand where you are coming from, but no. What I am doing is not cowardly. I do not go to ball games, it is not to please my friends. It is only at political events. We are in a war to restore Liberty and Justice to this nation. I am like the Confederate spy who wears a Union uniform in order to see General Grant's latest troop movements.

I pick my battles, the pledge and flag are at the very bottom of my list, as they are mere symbolism. If we do not win politically, we will be in for extremely dark times.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I haven't decided to make a scene and not say the pledge or not stand up for the national anthem, but when you think about it specifically from a Christian perspective, I think that those of us who are Christians should only pledge our allegiance to Jesus Christ.

Absolutely. You dont have to make a big scene, but I at least don't think you should pledge. This far I've generally stood to respect everyone else. I'm not really sure I should even do that though. Its a religious ceremony after all. If I were somewhere without family around I would likely not stand, as I really don't care if I tick off random idiots.

 

[William Tell]

Absolutely. You dont have to make a big scene, but I at least don't think you should pledge. This far I've generally stood to respect everyone else. I'm not really sure I should even do that though. Its a religious ceremony after all. If I were somewhere without family around I would likely not stand, as I really don't care if I tick off random idiots.

That's one perspective, and may be correct. But I think a number of people in the Bible showed more respect to kings and such then I would like too. I'm not totally convinced it is a religious ceremony, after all, it does say 'under God' that's more than Heathen kings and Pharaoh's would admit. You could argue that under the pledge, you would still not be bound to any immoral action of the government. Regardless of the percentage of evil our current public servants do.

 

[oyarde]

I never go anywhere where I hear the pledge . Only time I hear the anthem is an occasional ball game .The anthem does not bother me. As Erowe pointed out, there are some flaws to the pledge, lol

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Got suspended for not standing for the pledge in 5th grade. That was fun.

 

[Brett85]

Got suspended for not standing for the pledge in 5th grade. That was fun.

Did you have anarcho-capitalist political views in the 5th grade?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I never go anywhere where I hear the pledge . Only time I hear the anthem is an occasional ball game .The anthem does not bother me. As Erowe pointed out, there are some flaws to the pledge, lol

You have to admit, the "land of the free and the home of the brave" bit is especially ironic in an Orwellian way.

 

[pcosmar]

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Did you have anarcho-capitalist political views in the 5th grade?

Kind of, but they weren't fleshed out. As a child, I frequently asked my parents why it was okay for the government to force them to pay taxes when we were clearly financially struggling and they didn't want to pay taxes. Also asked why it was okay for the government to bomb people overseas who weren't attacking us. Never really got satisfactory answers. Or any answer outside of 'because'.

By the time I was a teenager my thought process was pretty literally beaten out of me, and I became status quo GOP/religious until my early 20s.