The state doesn't own your children but neither do parents, children have rights too. Conversion therapy is child abuse pure and simple. If an adult wants to do this to themselves then more power to them but the rights of children must be protected.
Chris Christie signs bill banning gay conversion therapy
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Antischism
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How does a lack of belief in a God/creator make someone inconsistent with liberty? This sounds strangely dogmatic.
jmdrake
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Fair enough.
Sola_Fide
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I've pointed out several times on these boards where atheist's natural tendency is to be statist.
You did it here, and several other atheists have done it in other threads. Usually the threads about children, education, global warming, and evolutionism will set off their statism.
It is like clockwork. It will happen every time. This is because atheism is a collectivist worldview.
You see, you've ran into one of the more infuriating walls here at RPF, the once bastion of Liberty on the internet. Sure, for the most part they want Liberty for everyone, but you are talking about 'the gays' here, the parents absolutely can treat their spawn as property in that case.
And on the other hand, you guys support "liberty" except when it comes to forcing your views on Christians and trying to force your socially liberal views on people who don't share your views.
RonPaulMall
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What about Church? Isn't it likely that a parent who is keen on taking his child to gay conversion therapy would also belong to a church that preaches a similar ideology with respect to homosexuality? Where is the law that prevents parents from taking their children to church? Wouldn't that be the logically corollary to this bill? Oh, yeah, I forgot, Christie doesn't believe in intellectual consistency. Politics is not a debating club. He wouldn't want to be confused with a professor. Gay Conversion can be attacked because it has been sufficiently demonized by the media and therefore it can be banned. Church hasn't yet reached that level of demonization, so even though it raises the same exact "problem" as gay conversion, Christie will leave it alone- for now.
The funny thing is despite all his protestations to the contrary, New Jeresy's fattest Nazi does have a political ideology- that the state should assert authority over every aspect of human life possible that is practical within the confines of the current electoral dynamic.
btw- i am not religious and this issue has nothing to do with whether you are atheist or religious.
The funny thing is despite all his protestations to the contrary, New Jeresy's fattest Nazi does have a political ideology- that the state should assert authority over every aspect of human life possible that is practical within the confines of the current electoral dynamic.
btw- i am not religious and this issue has nothing to do with whether you are atheist or religious.
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Legend1104
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True, but I think the general main stream consensus is that they were not progressive enough. They tried to be too conservative during the primary and alienated themselves for the general election and could not gain enough moderate support to win. Many of those main streamers would argue that if they were more progressive and tried less to be conservative during the primary, they could win the general. Truth be told, the Republican party has not elected a conservative Republican since Nixon and many neo-cons and RHINOs would argue that this is the only way to win blah blah blah. Of course I think it is a terrible mistake for the Republican party. I think the best bet too win would be to put up a Rand or Ron type candidate. They are very conservative were it counts, but the libertarian in them causes them to take stands that would gain enough votes from moderates and democrats to compensate for the lack of progressive, moderate credentials. If Rand could win the nomination then he would suck away many of the true anti-war, pro-4th amendment voters from Clinton. Just my 2 cents.
LibertyEagle
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Parents do a much better job of raising their children, than does the government. Isn't that the point? If we start believing that the government has the all-powerful wisdom to decide how children are to be raised, what's next? Will they soon be telling parents what they can and cannot feed their children? How about whether they can be home-schooled, because you know there is quite a contingent out there who believe that is dangerous to their well-being. Not too long ago, they tried to make it illegal for kids to work on the family farm, but there was so much outcry, it was pulled back. Where does all this end?
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One man's Snake Oil is another man's GMO free Soft Drink.
Conversion therapy is ineffectual at best(fraud) and potentially harmful or even torturous, do you have any problem with child abuse being illegal? Is it tyrannical for the state to step in to stop parents from physically or sexually abusing children?
Children are not property and have rights that need to be protected just as me or you. If you want to do this to yourself then go ahead but it should not be allowed to be practiced on minors who cannot consent.
If the same methods used in 'conversion therapy' were done to terrorists, I don't think you guys would be so gung ho.
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Many homosexuals were abused as kids and were "converted" to homosexuality by other homosexuals.
LibertyEagle
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I don't see how anyone who agrees with the government doing this can in any way legitimately refer to themselves as libertarians. Sorry, I really do not.
NIU Students for Liberty
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Didn't you defend the nuclear bombing of Japanese civilians?
Would you also be in favor of throwing parents in prison if they take their child to a church that has a pastor that speaks out against homosexuality and tries to convince children and teenagers to not engage in homosexual activity?
JCDenton0451
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You see, you've ran into one of the more infuriating walls here at RPF, the once bastion of Liberty on the internet. Sure, for the most part they want Liberty for everyone, but you are talking about 'the gays' here, the parents absolutely can treat their spawn as property in that case.
The curious thing is that this is mostly due to social conservatives being disproportionally active (and agressive) in comments. For what it's worth, 40% of RPF users support abortion rights, although you would have never guessed it from the comments.
Liberty movement itself isn't socially conservative in nature.
NIU Students for Liberty
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Are the pastors using electric shock therapy?
Outlaw electric shock therapy.
JCDenton0451
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This is a complicated issue from the Liberty standpoint. On the one hand, children have a right not to be subjected to abuse, which is what gay therapy arguably is. Ideally, the decision should be left up to a child. In practice though, the parents have overwhelming influence and control over their children's lives, so the kid isn't really in the position to make an independent choice...
On the one hand gay therapy is a commercial service and its practicioners have a right to make money. But they're also snake oil salesmen, and their business involves hurting and abusing children, who are often forced into this.
Tough situation. My approach would be to ban gay therapy for people under 18.
On the one hand gay therapy is a commercial service and its practicioners have a right to make money. But they're also snake oil salesmen, and their business involves hurting and abusing children, who are often forced into this.
Tough situation. My approach would be to ban gay therapy for people under 18.
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