Chris Christie signs bill banning gay conversion therapy

[Antischism]

Does this even work at all? If not, is Christie stopping what is basically fraud?

I mean, is it an infringement of our rights if the government stops a "Snake Oil" salesman or anyone else confirmed to be selling a bullshit product?

As someone who strongly believes being gay isn't a choice, I would view such a practice as a form of brainwashing, personally. But if people want to attempt to get brainwashed or possibly ruin themselves psychologically, it's still their choice. My problem lies with parents who try to "get the gay out of" their children by forcing them into these programs which some have gone as far as to describe as abusive based on personal experiences.

 

[ZENemy]

I wonder

How much "therapy" does it take to turn a straight person gay?

 

[kahless]

What nomination does Christie think he is trying to win by consistently legislating like a Progressive. He is delusional if he thinks pandering to Progressives will help him win the Republican nomination.

 

[Root]

As someone who strongly believes being gay isn't a choice, I would view such a practice as a form of brainwashing, personally. But if people want to attempt to get brainwashed or possibly ruin themselves psychologically, it's still their choice. My problem lies with parents who try to "get the gay out of" their children by forcing them into these programs which some have gone as far as to describe as abusive based on personal experiences.

Still, how is that a violation of your rights?

 

[Antischism]

Still, how is that a violation of your rights?

It's a violation of the rights of the person being forced into a potentially destructive form of therapy. I view "parental rights" in more of a Rothbardian/Anarchist view, where parents don't have any legal authority to force their children into such things. It's akin to child abuse.

 

[Acala]

Does this even work at all? If not, is Christie stopping what is basically fraud?

I mean, is it an infringement of our rights if the government stops a "Snake Oil" salesman or anyone else confirmed to be selling a bullshit product?

If they are using outright lies to sell the product, it would be fraud. But if they are simply making performance claims that are not met, it is at most a contract issue and maybe not even that. Think of how often people go to a regular md for treatment and don't find a cure. That isn't fraud.

 

[V3n]

It's not an infringment of your rights for someone else to send their child to a therapist to talk about their sexuality. Perhaps you should support Chris Christie for President in 2016.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

Psychologist Douglas Haldeman writes that conversion therapy comprises efforts by mental health professionals and pastoral care providers to convert lesbians and gay men to heterosexuality by techniques including aversive treatments, such as "the application of electric shock to the hands and/or genitals," and "nausea-inducing drugs...administered simultaneously with the presentation of homoerotic stimuli,"

It's not about sitting around and talking about your feelings.

Parent's Rights is one thing, but the Rights of the child NOT to have their genitals electrocuted should also be observed.

 

[Philhelm]

What nomination does Christie think he is trying to win by consistently legislating like a Progressive. He is delusional if he thinks pandering to Progressives will help him win the Republican nomination.

*Cough* Romney *Cough*

Apparently, He can win the nomination by pandering to progressives, just not the general.

 

[Root]

It's a violation of the rights of the person being forced into a potentially destructive form of therapy. I view "parental rights" in more of a Rothbardian/Anarchist view, where parents don't have any legal authority to force their children into such things. It's akin to child abuse.

How do you know that every child is being forced? Isn't it possible that a teen and parents discuss this and decide to try it willingly?

 

[belian78]

It's a violation of the rights of the person being forced into a potentially destructive form of therapy. I view "parental rights" in more of a Rothbardian/Anarchist view, where parents don't have any legal authority to force their children into such things. It's akin to child abuse.

You see, you've ran into one of the more infuriating walls here at RPF, the once bastion of Liberty on the internet. Sure, for the most part they want Liberty for everyone, but you are talking about 'the gays' here, the parents absolutely can treat their spawn as property in that case.

 

[belian78]

How do you know that every child is being forced? Isn't it possible that a teen and parents discuss this and decide to try it willingly?

And according to this legislation, that would be perfectly ok. What this legislation requires, is that the child sees a counselor first to ensure that the 'treatment' is what he/she actually wants, and is not being forced upon them by their parents.

 

[Root]

And according to this legislation, that would be perfectly ok. What this legislation requires, is that the child sees a counselor first to ensure that the 'treatment' is what he/she actually wants, and is not being forced upon them by their parents.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[juleswin]

It seems to me that what this stops is parents from forcing their kids to undergo the "therapy," which I believe is straight up quackery. Parents shouldn't be allowed to force any child into such a heavily discredited practice.

Dont get me wrong, I think its completely idiotic for one to put their kid through gay conversion therapy. But how about parent forcing their kids to go to church to worship a God? or how about male circumcision? My guess is that he would leave those popular ones alone and go for the one that affects the smallest voter bloc.

Fucking coward. To me the punishment of losing your money and possibly destroying the relationship you have with your child is punishment enough for a parent who decides to go through the process.

 

[juleswin]

And according to this legislation, that would be perfectly ok. What this legislation requires, is that the child sees a counselor first to ensure that the 'treatment' is what he/she actually wants, and is not being forced upon them by their parents.

If that is the case, then I have no problem with it.

 

[kahless]

*Cough* Romney *Cough*

Apparently, He can win the nomination by pandering to progressives, just not the general.

The Republican establishment lost two elections in a row with this failed strategy. With the progress this movement has made and the obvious rejection of Progressive Republicans by the Republican voter I do not believe they are that strong to pull it off for a 3rd time.

 

[belian78]

Dont get me wrong, I think its completely idiotic for one to put their kid through gay conversion therapy. But how about parent forcing their kids to go to church to worship a God? or how about male circumcision? My guess is that he would leave those popular ones alone and go for the one that affects the smallest voter bloc.

Fucking coward. To me the punishment of losing your money and possibly destroying the relationship you have with your child is punishment enough for a parent who decides to go through the process.

I completely agree with this. Anyone who would put their child through this deserves the drained bank account, and lost relationship with their child that is almost a certainty.

 

[juleswin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy



It's not about sitting around and talking about your feelings.

Parent's Rights is one thing, but the Rights of the child NOT to have their genitals electrocuted should also be observed.

Just wondering, is that the only method for gay conversion therapy?

 

[Antischism]

How do you know that every child is being forced? Isn't it possible that a teen and parents discuss this and decide to try it willingly?

Well, that's the crux of the situation and why I was initially confused. The law would ban even a willing participant from trying it until the age of 18, which I of course would have a problem with, thus why I admitted the bill was authoritarian.

I can see an argument some people might make for the law in that, parents, being in a position of authority throughout the child's life, can coerce them into thinking they want it for their own personal reasons, and not the child's best interest. Just like an adult can coerce a child into thinking having sex with them is good/feels good, and the child then 'consents', even though it's a form of abuse and psychologically damages the child.

This "gay conversion therapy" seems like a pretty intense and abusive (both physically and psychologically) procedure. I'm not the most knowledgeable person on it, but many who have had the misfortune of undergoing such a practice tell horror stories.

 

[Antischism]

And according to this legislation, that would be perfectly ok. What this legislation requires, is that the child sees a counselor first to ensure that the 'treatment' is what he/she actually wants, and is not being forced upon them by their parents.

That's how I initially read it, so now I'm back to square one.

 

[V3n]

Just wondering, is that the only method for gay conversion therapy?

No, there are other methods mentioned on the page. I just wanted to state that it is not all sit-on-a-couch and talk; but it is not ALL electro-shock therapy either.