Will the Libertarian Party Field A Candidate Against Presidential Candidate Rand Paul?

Carlybee said:
Same here. I'm not holding my nose for anyone. That being said the thought of Hillary is a nightmare too.
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Yes, she definitely would be...but if her opponent is Jeb or Rubio there will be no difference. Of course, you already know that. :)
 
AuH20 said:
I don't think you would know what a neocon was if it came up and bit you. It's the broad brush generalizations that make me want to pull my hair out. Neoconservatives per the Irving Kristol model have no problems with gun restrictions ala Cheney's opposition to the Heller verdict. Neoconservatives aren't opposed to the drug war like Glenn Beck. They espouse open borders for corporate raiders. Neoconservatives want American power directed into every hellhole and geopolitical friction point (see Marco Rubio wanting to draw Georgia into NATO). Now regarding Beck's fascination with the Middle East, he laid it out here. The fire will spread triggering the great economic reset:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpCo63uFos0&feature=player_embedded

Secondly, let's get to the Medina campaign that was an absolute albatross. Running a truther tinged campaign as a governor? Really? That's going to work. It's funny that Beck is the one assailed as this shadowy figure that brought down the AMAZING Deborah Medina (spare me) when Medina was the poor candidate. NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME which encompasses a very important theme in this thread. She just couldn't just shut up and keep it to Texas affairs. Property taxes, Texas sovereignty, etc. No, she had to embrace the convoluted fantasy land of thermite laced beams and holograms instead of keeping her eye firmly affixed to the prize.
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I know that Glenn Beck wants the US to be in a never-ending struggle for Israel's sake and it's very similar to neo-conservatism. We're supposed to unconditionally support the most irresponsible welfare queen on the planet. Nobody's baby-mama can compare to Israel.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...u-should-care-about-the-middle-east-The-Bible
 
AuH20 said:
I don't think you would know what a neocon was if it came up and bit you.
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These guidelines work for me...and Glenn Beck fits the description:

Ron Paul said:
  1. They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.

  2. They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.
  3. They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.
  4. They accept the notion that the ends justify the means – that hard-ball politics is a moral necessity.
  5. They express no opposition to the welfare state.
  6. They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.
  7. They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.
  8. They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.
  9. They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.
  10. They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill-advised.
  11. They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.
  12. They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.
  13. Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.
  14. 9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.
  15. They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists).
  16. They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.
  17. They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.
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http://www.lewrockwell.com/2003/07/ron-paul/weve-been-neoconned/
 
FrankRep said:
Glenn Beck doesn't support Trotsky or Leo Strauss.

Glenn Beck doesn't support the welfare state.
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:rolleyes: Congrats, you found 3 items out of 17 that don't apply to Beck. (Has he actually mentioned Trotsky or Strauss though?)

It's not necessary for all 17 to apply in order to qualify. He's hitting on enough of them that he can't shake the label.
 
cajuncocoa said:
Yes, she definitely would be...but if her opponent is Jeb or Rubio there will be no difference. Of course, you already know that. :)
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I think that Rubio would clearly be better than Hillary on domestic issues; on foreign policy issues he would be just as bad or even worse. Jeb would probably be about like his brother, and I don't think that George W. Bush was any better as President than Obama.
 
cajuncocoa said:
:rolleyes: Congrats, you found 3 items out of 17 that don't apply to Beck. (Has he actually mentioned Trotsky or Strauss though?)

It's not necessary for all 17 to apply in order to qualify. He's hitting on enough of them that he can't shake the label.
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They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists).
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He claims to be one, frequently has them on his show and begs to be accepted by them.

They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.
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Glenn Beck never supported infinite detention in NDAA and has recently come out in opposition to the Patriot Act.

They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.
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Beck believes in greater states' rights and downsizing the federal government by eliminating a number of departments.

They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.
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Beck declared Snowden a hero in the NSA scandal.

Beck is also strongly opposed to intervention in Libya and Syria. What genuine neoconservative would hold that position? Intervention in those nations is strongly supported by John McCain, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer, Paul Wolfowitz, John Bolton, Tom Cotton and Marco Rubio.
 
fr33 said:
I know that Glenn Beck wants the US to be in a never-ending struggle for Israel's sake and it's very similar to neo-conservatism.
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Israel and all things indirectly related is the issue that Beck, Kristol, Hannity and Levin will agree on.

Ideologically, only Kristol is a true neo-conservative.

Beck is harder to categorize. He jumps around a lot, and is not consistent. He is more of an Israel-first evangelist, combined with Constitutionalism and some libertarianism.

Hannity and Levin are Israel-first objectivists.
 
cajuncocoa said:
These guidelines work for me...and Glenn Beck fits the description:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2003/07/ron-paul/weve-been-neoconned/
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Cajun I think you are blinded by hate. If you want to ridicule Beck for having a unhealthy biblical attachment with Israel then you won't get any complaints from me. If you want to state that he is at an ideological divide with Ron Paul on the military capabilities of the United States, I will not disagree either. But the facts bear out in a near irrefutable fashion that he is not a neoconservative. It's not even a valid comparison.


1.They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.

Equating Glenn Beck who is a noted restorationist, to Leon Trostky. 0 for 1.


2.They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.

That's a canard. O for 2.

3.They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.

Negative. 0 for 3. Stated the flaws of the Bush Doctrine.

4.They accept the notion that the ends justify the means – that hard-ball politics is a moral necessity.

I believe the same. 1 for 4.

5.They express no opposition to the welfare state.

Yes, that's Glenn Beck alright. 1 for 5.

6.They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.
1 for 6. Beck wants to pull back.

7.They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.

Nope. 1 for 7.

8.They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.

Nope . 1 for 8.

Beck is a federalist.

9.They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.

Yes, Glenn Beck. Mr Elite Mormon.

1 for 9.

10.They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill-advised.

Another strange question 1 for 10. Beck doesn't want to be everywhere like true neocons.

11.They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.

1 for 11
More nonsense

12.They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.

1 for 12
Ha ha

13.Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.

There are numerous videos out there with Beck stating the OPPOSITE. You cannot force democracy on those who are culturally inclined to do otherwise1 for 13

14. 9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.

Nope.

1 for 14.

15.They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists).

1 for 15

Nope. Look who he hangs around with. Penn Jilette and others.

16.They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.

Nope. Numerous videos on this as well. Stated Patriot Act was a ruse.

1 for 16

17.They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.

He supports Israel, most notably Jerusalem, the holy land. 2 for 17.

So let's recap. Beck fulfills just two of the 17 criteria points. Yes, 2 of the 17 points for Mr. Neoconservative. Perhaps, you can stretch it to 4 out of 17 if you really want to grind the axe. Cajun, you need to do some better research on the guy as opposed to being one of the herd.
 
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cajuncocoa said:
Let's say the GOP screws Rand out of the nomination in 2016 (it's possible)....are you going to feel comfortable voting for Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, et al?
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My feelings don't enter into my voting decision honestly. I am in SC, whomever the GOP nominee is will win the state. I'll either vote for them or abstain. I won't vote for the LP candidate because it "feels better" to do so. If it is someone particularly good, I may cast a vote as a "protest vote", but that's unlikely. There is no emotion involved in my decision whatsoever.
 
CaptLouAlbano said:
My feelings don't enter into my voting decision honestly. I am in SC, whomever the GOP nominee is will win the state. I'll either vote for them or abstain. I won't vote for the LP candidate because it "feels better" to do so. If it is someone particularly good, I may cast a vote as a "protest vote", but that's unlikely. There is no emotion involved in my decision whatsoever.
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It's not emotion, Capt., it's principles. At least it is for me.
 
cajuncocoa said:
It's not emotion, Capt., it's principles. At least it is for me.
Click to expand...

But you asked if I would "feel comfortable", so either you are referring to a state of contentment or the absence of physical stress. One would assume the former since they don't give voters La-Z-Boys to sit in when casting their ballot.

So, if you are asking would I be abandoning my principles for casting a vote for someone I disagree with ideologically, well yes. And in that case I would abstain. But I don't get any sort of satisfaction by voting for a third party candidate. As I said, I may cast a protest vote, but that is unlikely. I don't like to give any encouragement to the madness that is the LP or CP. I have only done it once that I can recall.
 
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AuH20 said:
Cajun I think you are blinded by hate. If you want to ridicule Beck for having a unhealthy biblical attachment with Israel then you won't get any complaints from me. If you want to state that he is at an ideological divide with Ron Paul on the military capabilities of the United States, I will not disagree either. But the facts bear out in a near irrefutable fashion that he is not a neoconservative. It's not even a valid comparison.


1.They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.

Equating Glenn Beck who is a noted restorationist, to Leon Trostky. 0 for 1.


2.They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.

That's a canard. O for 2.

3.They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.

Negative. 0 for 3. Stated the flaws of the Bush Doctrine.

4.They accept the notion that the ends justify the means – that hard-ball politics is a moral necessity.

I believe the same. 1 for 4.

5.They express no opposition to the welfare state.

Yes, that's Glenn Beck alright. 1 for 5.

6.They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.
1 for 6. Beck wants to pull back.

7.They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.

Nope. 1 for 7.

8.They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.

Nope . 1 for 8.

Beck is a federalist.

9.They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.

Yes, Glenn Beck. Mr Elite Mormon.

1 for 9.

10.They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill-advised.

Another strange question 1 for 10. Beck doesn't want to be everywhere like true neocons.

11.They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.

1 for 11
More nonsense

12.They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.

1 for 12
Ha ha

13.Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.

There are numerous videos out there with Beck stating the OPPOSITE. You cannot force democracy on those who are culturally inclined to do otherwise1 for 13

14. 9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.

Nope.

1 for 14.

15.They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists).

1 for 15

Nope. Look who he hangs around with. Penn Jilette and others.

16.They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.

Nope. Numerous videos on this as well. Stated Patriot Act was a ruse.

1 for 16

17.They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.

He supports Israel, most notably Jerusalem, the holy land. 2 for 17.

So let's recap. Beck fulfills just two of the 17 criteria points. Yes, 2 of the 17 points for Mr. Neoconservative. Perhaps, you can stretch it to 4 out of 17 if you really want to grind the axe. Cajun, you need to do some better research on the guy as opposed to being one of the herd.
Click to expand...

I disagree with your analysis. For example, #15...the fact that he's friends with Penn Jillette doesn't mean he doesn't hate libertarianism. I have friends who are progressives; I have friends who still adore Dick Cheney. I despise what they believe, but we're still friends. I disagree with your analysis on #3. Ben Swann recently wrote about Beck calling for a war in Syria and Iran. I stopped listening to Beck regularly after the Debra Medina sabotage. If he's changed about other things on the list, good for him. But I suspect that's only because a Dem is in the White House right now.
 
CaptLouAlbano said:
But you asked if I would "feel comfortable", so either you are referring to a state of contentment or the absence of physical stress. One would assume the former since they don't give voters La-Z-Boys to sit in when casting their ballot.

So, if you are asking would I be abandoning my principles for casting a vote for someone I disagree with ideologically, well yes. And in that case I would abstain. But I don't get any sort of satisfaction by voting for a third party candidate. As I said, I may cast a protest vote, but that is unlikely. I don't like to give any encouragement to the madness that is the LP or CP. I have only done it once that I can recall.
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What? You don't get a La-Z-Boy in your state?? Y'all need an upgrade!

Seriously, of course I was speaking of being able to live with your vote for either of them. I couldn't, but to each his own.
 
cajuncocoa said:
I disagree with your analysis. For example, #15...the fact that he's friends with Penn Jillette doesn't mean he doesn't hate libertarianism. I have friends who are progressives; I have friends who still adore Dick Cheney. I despise what they believe, but we're still friends. I disagree with your analysis on #3. Ben Swann recently wrote about Beck calling for a war in Syria and Iran. I stopped listening to Beck regularly after the Debra Medina sabotage. If he's changed about other things on the list, good for him. But I suspect that's only because a Dem is in the White House right now.
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Ben Swann had a misleading headline which we already discussed. Glenn Beck did not call for a preemptive war into Iraq and Syria. His foreign correspondent Buck Sexton implied it. Beck stated that he would to pull all U.S. Forces out of the Middle East into a defensive shell and then wait for Al Qaeda to strike. You don't have to like or respect Glenn Beck, but he's not a neoconservative.
 
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cajuncocoa said:
I stopped listening to Beck regularly after the Debra Medina sabotage.
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As critical of him as you are on this forum, I would have supposed that you at the very least listen to him from time to time to see what he has to say. In my opinion, you really are unqualified to evaluate him.

Since we are on the subject, do you listen to Levin, Hannity, Rush or any of the other media personalities you routinely bash? Or is all the bashing you do born out of a hatred you have for these men because they didn't have an erection for Ron Paul?
 
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