Why US support for Israel has collapsed dramatically in years post 9/11?

[BlackTerrel]

revolutionisnow is 100% right. Even if it is true Ashkenazis have blood from the Middle Eastern region, it's a slim chance that they are actual descendents of the 12 Israelite tribes. And if they are still a 'pure' race-- then howcome all Ashkenazi Jews are identical to your average European-American? Are you telling me the Israelites, living in the Middle East 5,000 years ago, had features like blond hair & blue eyes?
But I don't worry about Israel too much-- it'll be mostly Palestinian by 2020. If the Jewish Zionist radicals don't want to deal with Palestinians peacefully, then they will reap as they sow.


And using the Old Testament to base a nation off of is retarded. All it is is a collection of ancient Middle Eastern myths including the plight of the Israelites. And I believe according to the OT the Israelites were permanently exiled from Israel.

Well I'm a Christian so I'll disagree with you regarding the OT but I'll avoid a religious debate. I don't base my views on the Mid East about my religion anyway.

I think I was more annoyed by his posts that the OT was supremacist nonsense while on another thread he's telling me how great mein kempf is. Seems a bit ironic - although I don't know if Alanis would write a song about it.

 

[revolutionisnow]

Well I'm a Christian so I'll disagree with you regarding the OT but I'll avoid a religious debate. I don't base my views on the Mid East about my religion anyway.

I think I was more annoyed by his posts that the OT was supremacist nonsense while on another thread he's telling me how great mein kempf is. Seems a bit ironic - although I don't know if Alanis would write a song about it.

It doesn't matter if you are Christian or not, its a matter of facts. If you can explain to us how the people calling themselves Jews today, are the tribe of the Judahites, then please do. Also please explain how the other tribes are so mixed that they cannot be determined. But all these different terms are used as synonyms but they are not. Hebrew, Judean, Judahite, Galilean, Jewish,Israeli = They all mean different things. That is not an opinion to be determined by your faith, they are facts determined by definition.

Where did I say how great MK was? I support people being able to have the freedom to read what they wish to- as opposed to banning books or declaring if you read x book then you must be y. If someone reads a book on Malcom X does that make them a black nationalist? Or do only black nationalists read books on Malcom X? But yes, if someone reads MK, and afterwords they decide they are the "chosen race" that would be wrong. The same way if people read the OT and believe they are a "chosen people".

 

[Flash]

Well I'm a Christian so I'll disagree with you regarding the OT but I'll avoid a religious debate. I don't base my views on the Mid East about my religion anyway.

I think I was more annoyed by his posts that the OT was supremacist nonsense while on another thread he's telling me how great mein kempf is. Seems a bit ironic - although I don't know if Alanis would write a song about it.

I admit I wasn't reading most of the thread only a few posts. But my views on the OT aren't meant to offend Christians. I believe in the bible too-- all because a lot of the stories were based off of other earlier Middle East stories doesn't make the bible false, just shows 'God' is found in multiple religions.

 

[sratiug]

The old testament is as racist a book as I've ever seen. Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all racists if they believe in it. A "chosen" people is a load of shit. It is racist. There can be no defense of it. All races were "chosen" by God to be on this planet.

Why the hate of Hitler who claimed the Aryans were "chosen" to be better than all others and defend the Bible which gives the same claim and details war and murder and conquest on massive scales justified by the superiority of a "chosen" people?

 

[BlackTerrel]

The old testament is as racist a book as I've ever seen. Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all racists if they believe in it. A "chosen" people is a load of shit. It is racist. There can be no defense of it. All races were "chosen" by God to be on this planet.

Why the hate of Hitler who claimed the Aryans were "chosen" to be better than all others and defend the Bible which gives the same claim and details war and murder and conquest on massive scales justified by the superiority of a "chosen" people?

You're comparing the Bible and Hitler? All Christians, Jews, and Muslims are racist? Do you really want to go there?

 

[sratiug]

You're comparing the Bible and Hitler? All Christians, Jews, and Muslims are racist? Do you really want to go there?

I already did.

 

[Kraig]

The old testament is as racist a book as I've ever seen. Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all racists if they believe in it. A "chosen" people is a load of shit. It is racist. There can be no defense of it. All races were "chosen" by God to be on this planet.

Why the hate of Hitler who claimed the Aryans were "chosen" to be better than all others and defend the Bible which gives the same claim and details war and murder and conquest on massive scales justified by the superiority of a "chosen" people?

I agree, the concept of a "chosen race" is inherently racist.

 

[BlackTerrel]

So Ron Paul then, as a Christian, is a racist? This is what you are saying? Christians by definition believe in the Old Testament.

By the way I'm a big fan of the name Kraig. It's like Craig but the K makes it a little more bad ass. Not being a jerk - I'm serious.

 

[sratiug]

So Ron Paul then, as a Christian, is a racist? This is what you are saying? Christians by definition believe in the Old Testament.

By the way I'm a big fan of the name Kraig. It's like Craig but the K makes it a little more bad ass. Not being a jerk - I'm serious.

No, you said that.

Christians believe in whatever they want to believe. If there were only one definition of Christianity there would only be one Christian church. I believe Jesus was a man, the son of God, just like we are all children of God and I try to follow his teachings. You believe what you want. But if you believe in the old testament as the word of God you are a racist.

 

[down_south]

As far as support goes, I support their ability to live in peace with the Palestinians without one group killing the other.

The word support can also mean financial support and in that regard, I do not support taking money from an American who may be against supporting Israel financially by taking tax money from him/her (for example, a Muslim who has moved to the United States) who does not want their money going to Israel. This is similar to something like taxpayer funded abortions; I am pro choice but I do not want my tax money paying for someone else to have an abortion. Also, we have been finding them for years and they have been at war for years....maybe if we stop, then they will have to stop attacking Palestinians.

 

[buffalokid777]

The old testament is as racist a book as I've ever seen. Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all racists if they believe in it. A "chosen" people is a load of shit. It is racist. There can be no defense of it. All races were "chosen" by God to be on this planet.

Why the hate of Hitler who claimed the Aryans were "chosen" to be better than all others and defend the Bible which gives the same claim and details war and murder and conquest on massive scales justified by the superiority of a "chosen" people?

But God did away with his chosen ones that didn't keep his commandments by selling them first into the slavery of the Babylonians and then Rome, the new testament was where God scattered his people throughout the world, and would accept anyone that followed his teachings and keep his commandments as Israel rather than those who were of a certain birthline. Those who follow the ten commandments are Israel today.

 

[BlackTerrel]

No, you said that.

Christians believe in whatever they want to believe. If there were only one definition of Christianity there would only be one Christian church. I believe Jesus was a man, the son of God, just like we are all children of God and I try to follow his teachings. You believe what you want. But if you believe in the old testament as the word of God you are a racist.

Can you name a Christian denomination that doesn't believe in the Old Testament? And in fact thinks that the Old Testament is evil and racist as you have described?

I was raised Baptist but have been to a number of Churches - never heard that one before.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Can you name a Christian denomination that doesn't believe in the Old Testament? And in fact thinks that the Old Testament is evil and racist as you have described?

I was raised Baptist but have been to a number of Churches - never heard that one before.

Not the way that it's being characterized.

But most Christian believe that the New Testament supersedes the old Testament. It is perfectly acceptable to most Christians to say that something in the Old Testament does not apply anymore, and is considered "bad" since the New Testament.

 

[Athan]

Posted twice

 

[Athan]

Israel stealing land? Last I checked the land was stolen from them...

Last I checked USS liberty was spying on Israel intercepting radio traffic and giving corrdinances of troop movements to the Arabs during the 6 day war. Do you know anything about that?

Israel and well as America have enetered into a politically correct posture regarding the incident.

It is easy for Americans to assume that Israel intentionally fired on Liberty, but how hard is it to assume America was actually spying on Israel to help its oil rich arab allies such as Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and several other Arab states?

If we are to denounce Israels claim it was an accident how can we be so sure as to not denounce America's role using the spy ship to spy on Israel? If it played a role in spying on Israel in a war where several other countries where spying on it, then...

Think about it, America at war with its enemies and one of its socalled allies is spying on them and giving the locations of troop movements to the enemy, would you not send jets to tear into that ship?

Seeing the American government about to target its own people, has me thinking twice about assuming it would not do the same with its allies.

There was a reason the investigation into the matter was swept under the rug...

This is not the first time our government has put our soldiers in harms way.

You should print this post and deliver it personally to the families of the USS Liberty. Tell them this is how you justify a "friendly nation" killing Americans. Tell them weeks in advance that you are coming, and that they are going to hear Israel's justification.

Tell us all how it went too!

 

[Sandman33]

Your rebuttal makes my case very well. Israel is not to be trusted, they are not our allies. Your defending them murdering our sailors is disgusting.

Agreed.

I can't believe he's going to sit there and say it was an ACCIDENT!

Sure...so was Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

So was 911.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Not the way that it's being characterized.

But most Christian believe that the New Testament supersedes the old Testament. It is perfectly acceptable to most Christians to say that something in the Old Testament does not apply anymore, and is considered "bad" since the New Testament.

I've never met a Christian who said that the OT was "bad". What about Jews by the way? Peter Schiff racist?

 

[sratiug]

Can you name a Christian denomination that doesn't believe in the Old Testament? And in fact thinks that the Old Testament is evil and racist as you have described?

I was raised Baptist but have been to a number of Churches - never heard that one before.

Can you name all Christian denominations? Do you deny that the old testament details genocide by the "chosen people"?

 

[Flash]

I've never met a Christian who said that the OT was "bad". What about Jews by the way? Peter Schiff racist?

I believe Gnostic Christianity believes the Old Testament to be full of Myths & Symbolism rather than actually being 'true.'

Peter Schiff isn't a Jew. It hasn't been confirmed if he is or not. Schiff can be European & Jewish surname. And if he is a born Jew, I would assume he is an Atheist or Agnostic now, as he doesn't make reference to his religion much. Or he has beliefs about not 'showing off' his religion in public. But yeah no one knows what he is.

I would say jews who take the Torah too literally and cherry-pick texts for dominance in Israel are racists. From what I understand-- Israelites (not Jews) don't get Israel back until the Messiah returns. The Zionist Jews argue they already deserve Israel. But these Zionist Jews actively want to remove Palestinians from their land, which is what I have a problem with.

 

[revolutionisnow]

Can you name a Christian denomination that doesn't believe in the Old Testament? And in fact thinks that the Old Testament is evil and racist as you have described?

I was raised Baptist but have been to a number of Churches - never heard that one before.

This is a classic strawman, we were originally talking about people who use the Old Testament to believe they are the chosen people and that entitles them to benefits. You then brought up Christians and Muslims, which I am pretty sure you will not find many Muslims agreeing with you on how the Jews are "chosen people". As far as Christians, they have been manipulated by the Scofield Bible, and zionist funded people like John Hagee, as stated earlier. The myth of Judeo Christianity is something only of recent times. Modern Protestant Christianity is directly the result of the work of Martin Luther. You can research his thoughts on Judaism, as well as what various Roman Catholic Popes had to say about it.