Why US support for Israel has collapsed dramatically in years post 9/11?

[buffalokid777]

But God did away with his chosen ones that didn't keep his commandments by selling them first into the slavery of the Babylonians and then Rome, the new testament was where God scattered his people throughout the world, and would accept anyone that followed his teachings and keep his commandments as Israel rather than those who were of a certain birthline. Those who follow the ten commandments are Israel today.

I am not surprised no one gave a rebuttal to my statement.

Israel is any one who keeps and follows God's ten commandments. That is God's true people.

 

[Flash]

This is a classic strawman, we were originally talking about people who use the Old Testament to believe they are the chosen people and that entitles them to benefits. You then brought up Christians and Muslims, which I am pretty sure you will not find many Muslims agreeing with you on how the Jews are "chosen people". As far as Christians, they have been manipulated by the Scofield Bible, and zionist funded people like John Hagee, as stated earlier. The myth of Judeo Christianity is something only of recent times. Modern Protestant Christianity is directly the result of the work of Martin Luther. You can research his thoughts on Judaism, as well as what various Roman Catholic Popes had to say about it.

And some of the earliest Christians were Gnostics. And they didn't take the Old Testament literally & believed it to be mythology (from my understanding of the religion.) I believe many early Catholics felt the same way, that the Old Testament was an ancient collection of just some scriptures written by Israelites. New Testament is what counts.

 

[BlackTerrel]

This is a classic strawman, we were originally talking about people who use the Old Testament to believe they are the chosen people and that entitles them to benefits. You then brought up Christians and Muslims, which I am pretty sure you will not find many Muslims agreeing with you on how the Jews are "chosen people".

I am quite certain that Muslims do view the OT as the word of God. Correct me if I am wrong.

As far as Christians, they have been manipulated by the Scofield Bible, and zionist funded people like John Hagee, as stated earlier. The myth of Judeo Christianity is something only of recent times. Modern Protestant Christianity is directly the result of the work of Martin Luther. You can research his thoughts on Judaism, as well as what various Roman Catholic Popes had to say about it.

I see. Jews are bad. We would see that if not for zionist funded people like John Hagee.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Can you name all Christian denominations? Do you deny that the old testament details genocide by the "chosen people"?

I can name the ones that I've met. I've never met any Christian who told me the OT wasn't true. Where do you think the Ten Commandments come from?

 

[sratiug]

I can name the ones that I've met. I've never met any Christian who told me the OT wasn't true. Where do you think the Ten Commandments come from?

Do you deny that the old testament details genocide by the "chosen people"?

 

[BlackTerrel]

Do you deny that the old testament details genocide by the "chosen people"?

It's about war and violence and the side that wins is often times brutal in their victory. I wouldn't call it genocide.

I'm not going to get in a debate with you about religion and I consider my beliefs to be a private matter. But yes I consider the Old Testament to be the word of God. And you're not going to get me to condemn my religion or my Bible - Old or New Testament.

 

[sratiug]

It's about war and violence and the side that wins is often times brutal in their victory. I wouldn't call it genocide.

I'm not going to get in a debate with you about religion and I consider my beliefs to be a private matter. But yes I consider the Old Testament to be the word of God. And you're not going to get me to condemn my religion or my Bible - Old or New Testament.

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night.

Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.

When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)

.......................

 

[Liberty Star]

I can name the ones that I've met. I've never met any Christian who told me the OT wasn't true. Where do you think the Ten Commandments come from?

So that's where the "thou shall not kill" commandment comes from, OT?

We need to promote OT then for the sake of increasing peace in the world. Wonder if Bush/Cheney ever read the OT.

 

[iddo]

It's about war and violence and the side that wins is often times brutal in their victory. I wouldn't call it genocide.

Here is the explicit command from God to His chosen people to commit genocide because some other people stood in their way when they tried to cross the desert hundreds of years earlier:

So when the Lord your God gives you relief from all the enemies who surround you in the land he is giving you as an inheritance, you must wipe out the memory of the Amalekites from under heaven – do not forget! (link)

What would it take for you to call it genocide? The Puritans used it to call the Native-Americans Amalekites and kill them... there were millions of Native-Americans who aren't around anymore, I assume you wouldn't call that genocide either?

And how about this:

then they said to him, “Say ‘Shibboleth!’” If he said, “Sibboleth” (and could not pronounce the word correctly), they grabbed him and executed him right there at the fords of the Jordan. On that day forty-two thousand Ephraimites fell dead. (link)

You're cool with killing people because they say Sibboleth instead of Shibboleth?

 

[Sandman33]

here is the explicit command from god to his chosen people to commit genocide because some other people stood in their way when they tried to cross the desert hundreds of years earlier:

What would it take for you to call it genocide? The puritans used it to call the native-americans amalekites and kill them... There were millions of native-americans who aren't around anymore, i assume you wouldn't call that genocide either?

And how about this:
You're cool with killing people because they say sibboleth instead of shibboleth?

god told me to kill you! It's ok!

 

[sratiug]

It got kind of quiet in here all of a sudden... all I hear is crickets.

 

[BlackTerrel]

It got kind of quiet in here all of a sudden... all I hear is crickets.

I haven't logged in for a week. Shit happens.

I've said my piece on this. There are a lot of things I'll debate, my religion isn't one of them.

 

[iddo]

I've said my piece on this. There are a lot of things I'll debate, my religion isn't one of them.

Your religion is more than just a private matter, what's your opinion of all the other people who read the word of God from the same books that you read and notice all the genocides and massacres that he commands his chosen people to carry out, and then they follow through and use it to justify their actions. Are you reading some unique sanitized version of the holy bible? Because in the standard version there are plenty of genocides and massacres ordered by God.

 

[buffalokid777]

When the country Israel, starts keeping the 10 commandments again,

I think public opinion will change.

Until then, this is what you get.

 

[buffalokid777]

Your religion is more than just a private matter, what's your opinion of all the other people who read the word of God from the same books that you read and notice all the genocides and massacres that he commands his chosen people to carry out, and then they follow through and use it to justify their actions. Are you reading some unique sanitized version of the holy bible? Because in the standard version there are plenty of genocides and massacres ordered by God.

the difference is God hasn't imprinted his will on the general populace for over 2000 years.

If you think you can speak for god, do so at your own risk.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Your religion is more than just a private matter, what's your opinion of all the other people who read the word of God from the same books that you read and notice all the genocides and massacres that he commands his chosen people to carry out, and then they follow through and use it to justify their actions. Are you reading some unique sanitized version of the holy bible? Because in the standard version there are plenty of genocides and massacres ordered by God.

There's a difference between the here and now and what happened in biblical times. For the record I don't support people who use religion to push their agenda. But as a Christian I believe in the Bible - I'm not sure why that's shocking to anyone.

 

[rpfan2008]

Believing in God and believing in religion are very much different.

IMO believing in any religious book is like... believing in 911 Commission Report, 1000 Yrs from now.

 

[iddo]

There's a difference between the here and now and what happened in biblical times. For the record I don't support people who use religion to push their agenda. But as a Christian I believe in the Bible - I'm not sure why that's shocking to anyone.

Not shocking at all, any honest Christian believes in the Bible including all the genocides and massacres ordered by God (therefore I fail to see why you choose to deny explicit genocide as written in the Bible, Deuteronomy 25 that I quoted).
But why are you a Christian? Shouldn't you find a nicer god who doesn't frequently orders people to commit massacres in the holy books that contain his inspired word?

 

[acptulsa]

Not shocking at all, any honest Christian believes in the Bible including all the genocides and massacres ordered by God (therefore I fail to see why you choose to deny explicit genocide as written in the Bible, Deuteronomy 25 that I quoted).

Non-fundamentalist Christians are dishonest? Fail.

But why are you a Christian? Shouldn't you find a nicer god who doesn't frequently orders people to commit massacres in the holy books that contain his inspired word?

Are you advocating creating God in one's own image? Double fail.

You don't think a person should believe in a God that allows free will? Perhaps you don't believe in a government that allows liberty, either? Are you dead set against parents who don't micromanage their children? Should God personally rewrite the Bible, or is it an adequate source of parables as it is?

Dude.

 

[iddo]

Non-fundamentalist Christians are dishonest? Fail.

People who pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe are dishonest, yes.
The relevant context here is that BlackTerrel said that he "wouldn't call it genocide", in spite of the explicit and unambiguous command that God gave to His chosen people to commit genocide.

Are you advocating creating God in one's own image? Double fail.

You don't think a person should believe in a God that allows free will? Perhaps you don't believe in a government that allows liberty, either? Are you dead set against parents who don't micromanage their children? Should God personally rewrite the Bible, or is it an adequate source of parables as it is?

Dude.

What are you talking about? I was simply asking why did you choose Yahweh as your god instead of a nicer god, out of the variety of possible gods (for example there are billions of people in India and China who believe in other gods). Props to Yahweh for allowing free will, so why don't you exercise your free will to decide that a god as genocidal as Yahweh is a fake god invented by men to support their aggression. Don't you think that a god who trancends and doesn't interfere in battles between men makes more sense?