Why US support for Israel has collapsed dramatically in years post 9/11?

[Liberty Star]

Overwhelming majority of American public was strong supporter of Israel and its occupation of Palestinians when Clinton was in office in late 90s. In a poll after 9/11, close to 70% of Americans had blamed 9/11 on Israel but many still said that cutting ties with Israel would not completely eliminate terror threat against America ( Couldn't find the link for old Reuters poll in quick search, that poll seem to have been deleted from the internet ?). Since Iraq war start, there has been gradual bleeding in US public support for Israel but now only a minority ( 49%) of Americans consider themselves supporters of Israel after hitting low of 38% two years after Iraq war start.


What in your view has been the biggest catalyst for such remarkable collapse in US support for Israel?

Iraq, economic crisis, Gaza massacre, 9/11?

Poll: American voters’ support of Israel drops

June 15, 2009

JERUSALEM (JTA) -- American voters' support for Israel has dropped 20 percent in the past nine months, a new survey found.

Some 49 percent of American voters call themselves supporters of Israel, down from 69 percent last September, according to the poll conducted for The Israel Project.

The number of voters who called themselves undecided rose during that same period, and the number of Palestinian supporters remained steady at 7 percent. The number of Israel supporters hit a low of 38 percent immediately following the 2005 disengagement from Gaza, with an equal rise in undecided voters.

http://jta.org/news/article/2009/06/15/1005902/poll-american-voters-suport-of-israel-drops


UPDATE 1:
Following may help explain people moving away from holy land.


As debate about using underwear scanners and groin sniffig dogs rages on in America almost 10 years after 9/11, an important question still remains unanswered. Why Israel policy connection was left out of 9/11 Commission Report?

YouTube - What motivated the 9/11 hijackers? See testimony most didn't

Intelligence Test

Published: August 20, 2006

Talking to the detainees was especially important because the commission was charged with explaining not only what happened, but also why it happened. In looking into the background of the hijackers, the staff found that religious orthodoxy was not a common denominator since some of the members “reportedly even consumed alcohol and abused drugs.” Others engaged in casual sex. Instead, hatred of American foreign policy in the Middle East seemed to be the key factor. Speaking to the F.B.I. agents who investigated the attacks, Hamilton asked: “You’ve looked [at] and examined the lives of these people as closely as anybody. . . . What have you found out about why these men did what they did? What motivated them to do it?”

These questions fell to Supervisory Special Agent James Fitzgerald. “I believe they feel a sense of outrage against the United States,” he said. “They identify with the Palestinian problem, they identify with people who oppose repressive regimes and I believe they tend to focus their anger on the United States.” As if to reinforce the point, the commission discovered that the original plan for 9/11 envisioned an even larger attack. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the strategist of the 9/11 plot, “was going to fly the final plane, land it and make ‘a speech denouncing U.S. policies in the Middle East,’” Kean and Hamilton say, quoting a staff statement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/20/books/review/20Bamford.html

 

[Liberty Star]

Another sharp reversal has been in US attitude towards Israeli settlements on occupied arab land with gradual tightening of screws. Lesser Jewish settlements were built on occupied land during Bush Presidency compared to Clinton regime and now settlement building is expected to come to a complete halt during Obama Presidency if recent news out of holy land are any indication. There has been showdown going on lately between holy land settler extremists/Natenyahoo and Obama and recently Rabbis with ties to settler movement have been arrested in NY/NJ money laundery rings by Obama administration.


This troubling news from today:

Sunday, 2 August 2009 22:38 UK

The evictions by Israel sparked protests at the scene

Israel condemned over evictions

The US has led international condemnation of Israel after it evicted nine Palestinian families living in two houses in occupied East Jerusalem.


Washington said the action was not in keeping with Israel's obligations under the so-called "road map" to resolve the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

Jewish settlers moved into the houses almost immediately.

Israel occupied East Jerusalem in 1967 and later annexed it, a move not recognised by the world community.

The removal of the 53 people was also condemned by the United Nations, the Palestinians and the UK government.

Senior Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat said he was outraged at the action.

"Israel is once again showing its utter failure to respect international law," he said.

"New settlers from abroad are accommodating themselves and their belongings in the Palestinian houses and 19 newly homeless children will have nowhere to sleep."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8180743.stm

 

[Liberty Star]

More evidence of likely US pressure and interference in Israeli internal affairs, for the fisrt time since 2001, "Jews Only" road will be opened to cars of Palestinian race:

02/08/2009

Israel lets Palestinians use Hebron road for first time in 8 years

By Chaim Levinson, Haaretz Correspondent, Haaretz Correspondent, and Reuters


Israeli authorities on Sunday opened a road from Hebron to the Jewish settlement of Kiryat Arba to Palestinian traffic for the first time in eight years.

Tzir Zion Road, or "Route of Zion," is the central artery connecting all the Jewish locations in the West Bank city. It was closed to Palestinian traffic in 2001, not long after the outbreak of the second intifada and following a spate of terror attacks against Israelis.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1104645.html



But looks like radical supporters of holy land apartheid are not going to take it lying down as this report covers recent Washington gathering of notorious CUFI group. It's a pro-war neocon site but pretty good reporting:

July 26, 2009

Silent No More

By Peggy Shapiro

Where could you hear radio talk show hosts Dennis Prager and Michael Medved, military analyst Elliot Chodoff, Israel's Ambassador Michael Oren, Senator Joe Lieberman, country music star Randy Travis, and cantor and musical theater singer Dudu Fisher on the same stage with ministers and orthodox rabbis? Where could you see over four thousand Christians waving Israeli and American flags to the singing of national anthems of Israel and the U.S. and breaking out in spontaneous dance during the playing of Havah Nagilah? Where could you witness Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans and Pentecostals wearing Star of David necklaces, which they had just purchased at an Israel bazaar? That's what I heard, saw, and witnessed at the Conference of Christians United for Israel in Washington D.C. on July 19-22 when Christian Zionists from a multitude of denominations and backgrounds took up the huge Convention Center and made over 400 lobby appointments on Capital Hill to speak up for Israel and mark a change in the Jewish-Christian relationship.

The focus of the conference was a two-pronged message to Congress and to the Obama administration, which has recently taken Israel to task for adding housing to accommodate the natural growth in its "settlements" while soft-peddling any criticism of Iran's nuclear ambitions: Israel is not the obstacle to peace and the U.S. must place crippling sanctions on Iran to stop the terror-sponsoring state from acquiring nuclear arms.

Rep. Eric Cantor (R-Va.) told the group, "Critics say the stumbling block [to peace in the Middle East] is settlements or Jerusalem or refugees," "We all know the real stumbling block to peace is posed by those who vehemently deny the nation of Israel's historical right to the land of Zion." Democrat Shelley Berkley (D-Nev) minced no words in her criticism, "...to pin the peace process" on the settlement issue "is absolutely foolhardy." "To publicly dress down the State of Israel is a huge mistake." CUFI founder and chairman Pastor John Hagee forcefully summed up the message, "America is singling out Israel...Despite all of the risks Israel has taken for peace, our government is pressuring Israel to take more risks. Hello Congress, we're putting pressure on the wrong people here. You want to get tough, get tough with the terrorists, not the only democracy in the Middle East." The crowd responded with a thunderous ovation.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/silent_no_more.html

 

[Sandman33]

Because Israel and the U.S. neocons are the ones really behind 911 and people are finally seeing it.

 

[Liberty Star]

I have never understood public view dynamic on this. Global public view on this is completely shocking, especially in countries like our no.1 debt holder China:

World opinion polls

A poll taken by WorldPublicOpinion.org, a collaborative project of research centers in various countries managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, College Park, polled 16,063 people in 17 nations outside of the United States during the summer of 2008. They found that majorities in only 9 of the 17 countries believe Al Qaeda carried out the attacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_opinion_polls

 

[iddo]

if you want meaningful answers you should define "support for israel", there are israelis who don't like policies like the evictions you quoted etc.
i don't like obama/mccain, does it mean that i don't support america?

 

[Liberty Star]

if you want meaningful answers you should define "support for israel", there are israelis who don't like policies like the evictions you quoted etc.
i don't like obama/mccain, does it mean that i don't support america?

Sure there are many nuanced ways to describe "support" for some foreign country, I had assumed same meaning that probably poll conductors had in mind and would generally mean support for :

- Israeli policies morally, at UN etc
- Israeli occupation of arab land
- supplying Israel bombs and tax dollars to continue its occupation and settlement building on Palestinian land
- Supporting Israeli war actions like recent Gaza massacre or Lebanon bombing with mostly civilian targets

For many radicalized supporters, it could also mean supporting their inherent right to take Palestinian land to realize some medieval religious dogma and further considering them a superior race as chosen by God.

If you were asking my definition of support, it would mean ending US aid, not supporting their theft of others land based on some ancient supremacist religio-racial doctrine and encouraging them to behave like modern civilized people following Int Law.

You ofcourse can articulate your own nuanced view if common view does not fit your definition.

 

[iddo]

poll conductor intentionally don't define "support", and in particular they won't ask the simple and unambiguous question "do you support giving foreign aid to israel,egypt..." because the results wouldn't be pretty...

 

[Liberty Star]

poll conductor intentionally don't define "support", and in particular they won't ask the simple and unambiguous question "do you support giving foreign aid to israel,egypt..." because the results wouldn't be pretty...

This aid poll question had come up in another discussion while back and I believe aid question was part of post 9/11 poll and resuls were not pretty. I'll try to look it up again, for some reason it has vanished from the internet. Maybe holy land lobby had it deleted from the internet lol

 

[lynnf]

dancing Israelis

maybe because of the "dancing Israelis" on 9/11?

and later those that said that now America would
better understand what Israel goes through?

lynn

 

[Jags~Beach]

So do all libertarians hate Israel, or just the overwelming majority in this forum?

 

[Sandman33]

maybe because of the "dancing Israelis" on 9/11?

and later those that said that now America would
better understand what Israel goes through?

lynn

Hey WHO runs our federal reserve again? Printing our money into destruction, lying about it, buying Politicians like Pelosi and Obama?

 

[catdd]

I think a lot of people realized that we had stirred up Muslim hatred towards us and invited the 9/11 attack by being too supportive of Israel.
They may not discuss it much, at least in public, but they made the connection.
They also know that if we continue meddling another attack is likely.

 

[sratiug]

So do all libertarians hate Israel, or just the overwelming majority in this forum?

Remember the USS Liberty!

Libertarians would generally oppose stealing land.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Hey WHO runs our federal reserve again? Printing our money into destruction, lying about it, buying Politicians like Pelosi and Obama?

Hmmm... let me guess??? The JEWS

 

[Liberty Star]

I think a lot of people realized that we had stirred up Muslim hatred towards us and invited the 9/11 attack by being too supportive of Israel.
They may not discuss it much, at least in public, but they made the connection.

That sounds like good explanation.

So do all libertarians hate Israel, or just the overwelming majority in this forum?

Going by recent poll on aid to Israel here, close to 95% members here love Israel from a distance but do not want to interfere in their internal affairs nor do they want their tax dollars to fund wars for foreign countries and create enemies needlessly. Sort of 'hands out of our pockets' tough love from a distance.

 

[Jags~Beach]

Remember the USS Liberty!

Libertarians would generally oppose stealing land.

Israel stealing land? Last I checked the land was stolen from them...

Last I checked USS liberty was spying on Israel intercepting radio traffic and giving corrdinances of troop movements to the Arabs during the 6 day war. Do you know anything about that?

Israel and well as America have enetered into a politically correct posture regarding the incident.

It is easy for Americans to assume that Israel intentionally fired on Liberty, but how hard is it to assume America was actually spying on Israel to help its oil rich arab allies such as Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and several other Arab states?

If we are to denounce Israels claim it was an accident how can we be so sure as to not denounce America's role using the spy ship to spy on Israel? If it played a role in spying on Israel in a war where several other countries where spying on it, then...

Think about it, America at war with its enemies and one of its socalled allies is spying on them and giving the locations of troop movements to the enemy, would you not send jets to tear into that ship?

Seeing the American government about to target its own people, has me thinking twice about assuming it would not do the same with its allies.

There was a reason the investigation into the matter was swept under the rug...

This is not the first time our government has put our soldiers in harms way.

 

[Kraig]

So only 49% consider themselves supporters of Israel yet 100% of tax payers are supporters of Israel, in the USA where we are free to choose who we support with our words but not free to choose who we support with our money.

 

[iddo]

Israel stealing land? Last I checked the land was stolen from them...

When was that?

giving the locations of troop movements to the enemy

Yikes, you have a wild imagination... If anything, the American actually participated in the fighting alongside Israel (a little bit), and they certainly provided aid. It's possible that USS Liberty intercepted communications that the Israelis preferred to keep private and that's why it was attacked, but giving troop movements to the enemy?? How did you come up with this one?
See here: http://antiwar.com/radio/2009/06/05/ray-mcgovern-17/

 

[nelsonwinters]

I would say that more information is coming out about

1. The situation in between the Israelis and Palestinians
Occupation_101.avi

2. The influence that the Israel Lobby has in Washington D.C.
Documentary 'The Israel lobby - The influence of AIPAC on US Foreign Policy'