WHY Massachusetts voted for McCain

[freelance]

Maybe this is exactly what happens with a vote in Congress, too. We the people, the voters, with good intentions, elect our representatives to vote our will for the good of our area/situation. They receive a little donation here, a little earmark there, a little martini lunch and suddenly they are voting their will for their own benefit, rather than what we elected them for. The root of misrepresentation. How much "giving" can one do before one misrepresents the people who "voted" for you? Politics - The Game.

Looks like they've been overpaying for Congressional influence. Perhaps a few tickets to the Jay Leno show... or some private reruns of Your Show of Shows?

 

[MelissaWV]

Didn't Dr. Paul make a deal in W. Virginia? There is a difference between giving in on major issues and giving in on personal dealings.

Briefly...

WV was the first state that was going to be announced on Super Tuesday. At the time, the "choice" was between Romney, Huckabee, and McCain (because Dr. Paul was eliminated after the first round of voting for having the least out of the four). This means Dr. Paul was *no longer an option at all* and the "deal" that was struck *got him three national delegates from the Huckabee camp* not that it made a big difference in the end. The motivation, timing, and options are totally different.

I won't say one way or another how I feel about MA, but that's what happened in WV. The two situations aren't really comparable. The WV delegates took a zero and turned it into a three. The MA delegates took a (whatever number) and turned into a (smaller number).

 

[TurtleBurger]

Every person who went to the RNC representing Ron Paul is a hero. No, they did not get Ron Paul the nomination, that was not a possibility. But they stood up for us in the belly of the beast, withstood every kind of abuse, and in the case of this Massachusetts delegation, actually managed to negotiate some positive concessions from the Massachusetts GOP for our movement. This is not a one-time shot for us, and kudos to Mr. Cunningham and the other folks from Massachusetts for thinking long-term. Anyone criticizing the work of our brave delegates should work harder to get themselves elected as national delegates next time, and show us how you would do it better.

 

[Sematary]

Every person who went to the RNC representing Ron Paul is a hero. No, they did not get Ron Paul the nomination, that was not a possibility. But they stood up for us in the belly of the beast, withstood every kind of abuse, and in the case of this Massachusetts delegation, actually managed to negotiate some positive concessions from the Massachusetts GOP for our movement. This is not a one-time shot for us, and kudos to Mr. Cunningham and the other folks from Massachusetts for thinking long-term. Anyone criticizing the work of our brave delegates should work harder to get themselves elected as national delegates next time, and show us how you would do it better.

+1

For my two cents, I understand the feelings being expressed here - and they need to be expressed. Everyone's viewpoint is valid. BUT... I also know the kind of people we sent to the RNC and I do believe THEY believe they did the best and right thing. I can't say for sure what I would have done if I were in that position, because I wasn't there. My instinct tells me that I would have told the GOP to go F*** itself but I don't know the exact nature of what was gained. My initial reaction tho - and still the one I think I hold, is given the choice of McCain - or abstain, I would have abstained. I could never put my vote behind McCain. Again, however, I don't know what the exact situation was or what concessions were won from the Ma. GOP.

 

[speciallyblend]

We will make change in our own movement soon , WE ARE THE MOVEMENT!!!!

 

[Rhys]

I think they're assholes and idiots, no matter what they say. I vote to kick MA out of the Union.

 

[PatriotOne]

Throughout the days leading up to that critical vote, Ron Paul repeatedly asked us not to disrupt the Convention, but rather to act as ambassadors, to reach out and build bridges to the other Republicans,

I truly do not understand this reasoning. RP has repeatedly stated he will not endorse McCain. Why on earth would they think he would want his delegates to endorse him? Acting as Ambassadors does not mean going along to get along. The only message they sent by doing this was that they can be another Republican lemming if enough pressure is applied.

I'm very disappointed.

 

[ShowMeLiberty]

I have very mixed emotions about this.

On one hand, it's easy for us to sit at our computers and criticize. Easy to say they should have stood firm no matter what. Easy now to say they betrayed their principles, betrayed us, betrayed Dr. Paul. And to a large extent, I agree with all that.

On the other hand, we were not there, under pressure, trying to come to the right decision in a short time. Reading their explanations, I can see that they were sincerely trying to do what they felt would help us best going forward. Republicans, generally, do not like radicals and rebels. Refusing to budge would have labeled the delegates as radicals and rebels and would have silenced them forever within the GOP.

Changing direction of the GOP actually is part of our overall goals, isn't it? We can't possibly do that if we only antagonize them at every opportunity. The NeoCons didn't take over by antagonizing the conservatives. No, they were stealthy about it until they got a majority of the party thinking their way. I have to agree that playing the same game is the only way to turn the GOP our way.

I guess that's what it comes down to for me. Is "calling the GOP back to its roots" one of our goals or not? If so, then I grudgingly accept what the MA delegates did as part of that process. If not, then they made a poor decision and let us all down.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

BURN THE TRAITORS!!!!! No, seriously.

 

[MsDoodahs]

Every person who went to the RNC representing Ron Paul is a hero. No, they did not get Ron Paul the nomination, that was not a possibility. But they stood up for us in the belly of the beast, withstood every kind of abuse, and in the case of this Massachusetts delegation, actually managed to negotiate some positive concessions from the Massachusetts GOP for our movement. This is not a one-time shot for us, and kudos to Mr. Cunningham and the other folks from Massachusetts for thinking long-term. Anyone criticizing the work of our brave delegates should work harder to get themselves elected as national delegates next time, and show us how you would do it better.

+1

For my two cents, I understand the feelings being expressed here - and they need to be expressed. Everyone's viewpoint is valid. BUT... I also know the kind of people we sent to the RNC and I do believe THEY believe they did the best and right thing. I can't say for sure what I would have done if I were in that position, because I wasn't there. My instinct tells me that I would have told the GOP to go F*** itself but I don't know the exact nature of what was gained. My initial reaction tho - and still the one I think I hold, is given the choice of McCain - or abstain, I would have abstained. I could never put my vote behind McCain. Again, however, I don't know what the exact situation was or what concessions were won from the Ma. GOP.

Sentiments I share.

 

[Bradley in DC]

All of us are disappointed that McCain got the Republican nomination. Lots of people are looking for scapegoats to blame. I've always urged us to be realists and not get sidetracked:

1) learn the rules, play the game and beat them at it
2) find trusted local leaders in all states who know the local rules, peoples, games, etc.
3) build coalitions
4) don't put blind faith in the loyalty and/or competence of the official Paul presidential campaign staff

As I explained early, we needed to learn the "]RNC by-laws as well as the state rules.

I don't know what went on at the RNC convention. I have no idea what happened in NV: except that Jeff Greenspan/Paul_Delegate was at the center of a clusterfuck and we know he will misrepresent thing (and the Sue was the first to invite Dr. Paul to a state convention) and he's loyal to Lew Moore whose loyalty to Dr. Paul is questioned by the Congressional office and Dr. Paul's Texas political machine.

The MA delegation has explained itself:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1653888&postcount=8

The purpose of our meeting in the courtyard was to plan to nominate RP for president, which the campaign had given up on for a long time. We understood the rules of the roll call vote, which stated that RP could not be nominated or placed on the ballot of choices for the roll call vote for all states without the support of the majority of five delegations. We identified the ten smallest delegations and assigned delegates from across the country to approach delegates from these delegations with petitions for placing RP on the ballot. This was understood to be a Hail Mary, but we were not going to give up. We went nuts on the floor on Tuesday trying to get these petitions signed.

The people from the WA delegation were actually able to get the support of the majority of the virgin islands delegation, but our luck stopped there.

We were not able to get RP placed on the ballot for all states. Some states were legally required to report the votes of RP supporters who were legally bound to RP, but most states were not. In Massachusetts, most of us were bound by state law to McCain. We were only given the option of McCain or abstain.

More on the MA delegation here:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/massvoices/2008/09/the_revolution_continues_unite.html

I tried to bring our side up on the rules (the real ones, not some of the delusional rantings widely popularized). I tried to help the grassroots identify and win the five states needed to get Dr. Paul qualified to be nominated.

Good work on the RP supporters at the convention trying to follow the rules and get Dr. Paul nominated. How cool that the US Virgin Islands were willing to join us. Although the grassroots on RPFs did try to reach out to the territories, it's a shame the official campaign ignored them.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1656265

I was on a conference call a week or so before the convention. Debbie Hopper and Drew Ivers were hosing it, and Lew Moore was a guest. The call was supposed to be for delegates only, but I secretly listened in with a delegate I know. When another delegate asked Ivers what he should do since Ron Paul isn't a choice on the ballot, Drew Ivers told him to either vote for McCain or to find an alternate who would.

I'll repeat that: Drew Ivers told Ron Paul delegates to either vote for McCain or to find an alternate who would!

Moore and Hopper agreed, although all three said they couldn't and wouldn't 'tell' anyone how to vote. Nevermind their roles and influence.

I'm not going to judge the decisions of different delegates on how they voted--I don't know enough of their situations. Dr. Paul's official campaign never had a strategy to get Dr. Paul eligible to be nominated in the first place and were never interested in learning the rules necessary--much less training the grassroots in them.

I was thrilled to see Dr. Paul get at least some votes--too bad they didn't count. If, on a state by state basis, we made inroads into the state parties (however we voted), the better. Our efforts working with the DC GOP yielded some benefit.

I wish the campaign had done more trying to get the five majority delegations for Dr. Paul to put his name on the ballot as a qualified nominee. That Lew Moore was urging Ron Paul delegates to vote McCain says a lot about the suspicions many have long held about him.

Was it a good decision or not? I don't know depending on the local situations. Some state parties are not receptive to us--others are. The DC Republican Committee has a very closed membership reflecting the establishment. To become a member one has to be nominated by a current member, approved by the select committee and voted on by the full DCRC. There was 1 of 70 who was on Dr. Paul's delegate candidate slate for a time, but 3 of the 7 new members (myself included) were on Dr. Paul's slate and added this year

Funny how Jeff Greenspan and Don Rasmussen who idolize Lew Moore lament "people like Bradley" for not working with the party while he demonizes Sue et al. who welcomed Dr. Paul. Is that another example of the Lew Moore style of furthering the movement?

 

[MsDoodahs]

Changing direction of the GOP actually is part of our overall goals, isn't it? We can't possibly do that if we only antagonize them at every opportunity. The NeoCons didn't take over by antagonizing the conservatives. No, they were stealthy about it until they got a majority of the party thinking their way. I have to agree that playing the same game is the only way to turn the GOP our way.

Exactly. The GOP did not become what it is today overnight. It has been a long term process, taking years - not one election.

My goal is to be stealthy and invade the GOP, and work to reverse what the neocons have done, the same way the neocons were stealthy and invaded the GOP years - AND YEARS - ago.

It is not a quickie one election deal. It's a multi-year process.

I guess that's what it comes down to for me. Is "calling the GOP back to its roots" one of our goals or not?

It is certainly a goal for some, and Dr. Paul is among that number.

That is not to say that other freedom fighters are in any way wrong in making a different choice.

 

[speciallyblend]

mccain wins and it is all mute, the gop corruption is disgusting scum ,the media is basically scum, so we need to focus on either making sure mccain loses or after election letting the gop die ,put the dying dog down ,but if mccain wins it is all mute

Exactly. The GOP did not become what it is today overnight. It has been a long term process, taking years - not one election.

My goal is to be stealthy and invade the GOP, and work to reverse what the neocons have done, the same way the neocons were stealthy and invaded the GOP years - AND YEARS - ago.

It is not a quickie one election deal. It's a multi-year process.



It is certainly a goal for some, and Dr. Paul is among that number.

That is not to say that other freedom fighters are in any way wrong in making a different choice.

 

[Feelgood]

Thanks Sematary for posting that. At least now we have some kind of confirmation, that they are indeed sell outs. That whole state is really beginning to make me sick. Murderers and Traitors to the country, as Senators. Delegates that are spineless. UGH makes me sick.

 

[RP4EVER]

Well said Speciallyblend; if McCain wins we'll have no movement in the republican party; nor anywhere for that matter; these deals will be for naught.

I see alot of posts saying "Well it wasnt easy"

People knew this before hand; thats why I didnt try to become a delegate. They got in over their heads point blank.

 

[speciallyblend]

hmmm

Well said Speciallyblend; if McCain wins we'll have no movement in the republican party; nor anywhere for that matter; these deals will be for naught.

I see alot of posts saying "Well it wasnt easy"

People knew this before hand; thats why I didnt try to become a delegate. They got in over their heads point blank.

well i wouldn't say the movement is over,just over in the dying gop.... We will eventually have to demand the lp/cp get over their own egos and unite behind us ron paul republicans and form a new platform,until then we will all marginalize each other,sad but true...

WE MUST CONTINUE TO FIGHT, I SUGGEST FOLKS FOCUS ON YOUR STATE AND LOCAL,since all these campaigns must be run differently by state... do not focus on parties ,focus on the people running and what they are saying. there are plenty of ron paul supporters in all the parties, We need to hold up the liberty candidates and forget party lines!!!!!! i could be wrong but to me the gop is worthless, vote for anyone but mccain ,thats my only option left now!!!!

 

[MsDoodahs]

Funny how donald duck and mickey mouse who idolize Jim Cantore lament people like Goofy for not working with the party while he demonizes Betty Lou et al. who welcomed Smurfs. Is that another example of the Ninja turtle style of furthering the movement?

Don't take your focus off the big picture and allow yourself to become bogged down in the petty details of personal soap operas, as is attempted in the quote above.

Do not let those who want your focus to be on PERSONALITY sway you.

Know that some have a goal of planting seeds of doubt within your mind.

You either have the ability to recognize that, or you don't.

If you don't, you'll find yourself swayed ... you'll find yourself questioning everything you thought you knew.

Remember, this is not about PERSONALITIES. Stay focused.

It's hard. I KNOW. lol.

When you start to doubt, consider what their frantic efforts demonstrate.

Think about what that means. What that really means.

eta my edit makes me lol...

 

[MsDoodahs]

we'll have no movement in the republican party; nor anywhere for that matter;

This movement existed long before this election cycle and it will exist long after.

 

[Rhys]

wow... I never thought so many RP supporters would WANT to take the middle ground to our demise.... to cave to the power against which we toss our lives and fortune... to give them all they want for almost nothing of our own in return. A negotiated demise of our principles and goals.

Reminds me of Congress... don't do anything to rock the boat or you might lose an election.... cave to all evil pressures just in case they decide to not be evil one day and help us.

The Liberals (especialy from MA) in this movement come at politics with a pussy view of how to achieve anything. This is why true believer liberals suck. They will cave in to anything so long as their super smart Utopian strategy seems to be progressed.

Well, the genius of the MA delegation just got us a big, fat ZERO on the point board and a big, fat ZERO on the influence board. They showed themselves to be whimps who will not and can not fight the power. We lost big that day because of MA. Now, we have to all but start over... after we sink MA into the bottom of the sea.

 

[MsDoodahs]

WE MUST CONTINUE TO FIGHT, I SUGGEST FOLKS FOCUS ON YOUR STATE AND LOCAL,since all these campaigns must be run differently by state...