Why government should always have more power than private business.

[tod evans]

You sound like you are in La-La land not the real world. Government is there. Get used to it. Use the democratic system to manipulate it.

Anarchy is not going to happen.

Refusing to answer a simple question..........

Have fun in class this year.

 

[Jovan Galtic]

Not another brainwashed one. Marx was not an idiot at all. As I wrote, most of his writing were of the Failures of Capitalism. He most of that pretty well right. His solutions were interpreted wrongly in many Commie countries. He got a hell of a lot wrong in his solutions. But his analysis of the Failures of Capitalism were pretty sound. That is why Marx never goes away. Some of his works are required reading in some economic courses.

The Video is not about Marxism at all - if you noticed. It was how we got into the situation we are in now. Prof Harvey is at NY uni. He did a briliant job in this video.

Most of his writings were failures of his brain. He got his basic premises wrong and because of that everything else was wrong.

Google "Yuri Maltsev".

 

[EcoWarrier]

Might I ask exactly how many years have you sent money into "The-Government" in the form of income and property tax?

Look up Geonomics. No Income or Property Taxes. A big movement. Just for you.

 

[newbitech]

That is very admirable. But whatever your views we have government whether you like it or not or think so or not. They do influence our lives. It is up to us to get them to do the best for us. It is no good pretending they do not exist.

Actually, if you looked in to SELF-government, you'd get the idea that rather than pretending "they" don't exist, actually ACT like "they" don't (read, don't depend on gov't for things that you can provide for YOURSELF) would be the only path to NON-violent revolution. See Gandhi, MLK, etc..

You are right in one sense, I don't like government getting in my way. So I will carry out my life as if "they" don't exist (because AFAIC, "they" are just like anybody else getting in my way) , and when "they" get in my way, I will exercise my natural born rights, and if "they" don't like it, then "they" can act or pretend or whatever, like I don't exist.

 

[EcoWarrier]

You are right in one sense, I don't like government getting in my way. So I will carry out my life as if "they" don't exist

Burying your head in the sand will not help.

 

[newbitech]

Burying your head in the sand will not help.

Neither will burying it in the posterior of YOUR government.

 

[angelatc]

http://www.epi.org/publication/job-seekers-ratio-improves-highest-rate/

There are way more people looking for jobs than there are jobs available:

"The total number of unemployed workers in December was 13.1 million (unemployment is from the Current Population Survey). Therefore the ratio of unemployed workers to job openings was 3.9-to-1 in December, an improvement from the November ratio of 4.3-to-1."

Of course there is. If the inverse was true, wages would skyrocket. In a free market, that would bring a wave of immigrants and the least efficient businesses going under. But as long as we have a minimum wage (known as a price floor in Econ 101) we will have a level of unemployment higher than the natural level.

But that doesn't mean that no jobs are available, nor does it mean nobody wants your labor. It only means you're competing with a lot of other people for that job. If you're unskilled, then you're competing with an incredibly high number of people for that position.

If you have advanced skills, then the good news is that there's not so much competition. The bad news is that there's no nearly as many positions open. Think about a factory - are there more line workers or managers?

 

[angelatc]

That is very admirable. But whatever your views we have government whether you like it or not or think so or not. They do influence our lives. It is up to us to get them to do the best for us. It is no good pretending they do not exist.

In some respects, I'm probably 30-40 years past that way of thinking. I used to believe that government existed to do good, but looking at the devastation thet leave in their wake makes it seem foolish to maintain that facade. It is no good pretending that they're doing good. They're like Asian Carp - once they're in the system they destroy it.

I do agree that it will never go away, but it is up to us to be an opposing force.

 

[angelatc]

Look up Geonomics. No Income or Property Taxes. A big movement. Just for you.

No property rights? Government owns all the resources? No thanks.

 

[angelatc]

Being wealthy doesn't just happen in a free market. Look at the Dow Jones Industrial Index, there are maybe four companies on it that have been there for more than fifty years. Big companies go bang and die really fast and quite often when the people at the top slack off for even a moment. Unless the government is paying to hide their mistakes.

Eastman Kodak, GM, AT&T, Citigroup, Woolworths, ... in the '80's IBM almost tanked. They ditched their PC business and saved themselves.

GE is the only company that's made the whole ride.

 

[sublimed]

This is one topic that angers me a bit. I'm not what is considered an educated person. I did not graduate from High School or College but I finally received my GED at 25. I chose to drop out of School and take an internship working in a data center. I was smart and worked hard and became a trades person. I'm a jack of all computer trades and at 30 I could go be a Linux, Windows, or Cisco admin tomorrow at a new company paying me more. This is when the voluntary part of this relationship comes in I love my employer. They pay me fair and treat me like a king because I'm not a dime a dozen. It is a mutually beneficial arrangement. What I do is a trade or career the positions that you are speaking of are jobs and the labor are a dime a dozen. Get some skillz and your bitterness will fly away!

 

[angelatc]

Pay attention please. The factors of production are the core of a free-market - when unrigged. Governments must ensure these three points are not meddled with and they do not themselves meddle with them.

Corporations were developed to hedge risk - in short bucking the free-market.



Totally wrong. Marx mainly wrote on the Failures of Capitalism. Overall he was pretty well right in his observations and analysis. He was short on solutions. David Harvey will give you an outline of how we are in the situation we are in. He say he doesn't have an answer. I do - Geonomics. Look on:

A rebuttal.

"People that argue Marxist theory are therefore usually excluded from being taken seriously."

 

[angelatc]

This is one topic that angers me a bit. I'm not what is considered an educated person. I did not graduate from High School or College but I finally received my GED at 25. I chose to drop out of School and take an internship working in a data center. I was smart and worked hard and became a trades person. I'm a jack of all computer trades and at 30 I could go be a Linux, Windows, or Cisco admin tomorrow at a new company paying me more. This is when the voluntary part of this relationship comes in I love my employer. They pay me fair and treat me like a king because I'm not a dime a dozen. It is a mutually beneficial arrangement. What I do is a trade or career the positions that you are speaking of are jobs and the labor are a dime a dozen. Get some skillz and your bitterness will fly away!

bly

You and me both. I didn't have the chance to go to college right out of school, and I probably wasn't ready anyway. I went to work, and decided (really!) that I wanted a job in the air conditioned part of the company where I could wear pretty clothes. Once I got there, in Accounting, I found that I understood a lot of the processes better than my coworkers. I also saw that people who had cubbies, doors, and *gasp* windows tended to have college degrees on their walls. So I started going to junior college in the evenings. I couldn't get a loan so I could only swing 1 or 2 classes at a time.

THen I met someone who worked at a company that paid for her school. So I piggy-backed on that relationship to land a job at that company. And my salary went up and up and up.

 

[mczerone]

You're already distracting from my original point. Of course there are an exceptional few who "work their way up" but for most people this is not a possible option. And besides, where would we all go? There is limited room "on top" in a capitalist society.

Bullcrap. I wasn't going to get involved in your little distraction here, but this one is the crux of the free market vs. corporatism. There is NO cap to total wealth available in the world. People who are free to innovate, compete, and deliver products and services to consumers are creating wealth. The more competition, the more innovation. The more innovation, the more efficient capital structure. The more efficient capital structure, the less work is required to produce something for which the consumer is willing to pay.

In a free market, there is no top. There is no limit on social mobility apart from each person's ideas, willingness to work, and willingness to learn. You can create your own "empire" in manufacturing without negatively impacting any other leader in the free market. You can take your resources and spend them how you see fit. You do a good job, you have made your own life better AND the lives of your consumers and employees better.

There is no antagonism in a free market: the capitalist can only succeed by giving the BEST offer to potential employees, and employees can only succeed by giving the BEST offer to potential employers. There is a natural harmony.

Every single "problem" you've brought up is a problem of govt structure, regulation, and restriction.

Even granting your assertion that "there is limited room at the top," who would you rather decide who gets there: the consumers exercising free choice, or the government selecting favored producers who necessarily come from the old-money class?

Freedom works, and your sob-stories are no more valid than the "success" stories that you dismiss as "exceptional."

 

[angelatc]

Let's say that I inherit a ton of money. I decide to invest it in a restaurant somewhere, and maybe I've never been there, doesn't even matter. So I give the money to someone who wants to start a restaurant. Well, a restaurant doesn't run itself, right? We need workers. So we hire some desperate people to do boring, monotonous, stressful work (cooking, cleaning, serving, dealing with annoying customers all day, etc.) And so long as they keep working, and so long as customers keep coming, I, the investor, keep making money, whether I am doing any work or not. Part of the value produced by the worker's labor is siphoned off so that I keep making money. I can then invest money all over the place, reaping profits from my investments, and if I don't want to, I never have to work again! Isn't capitalism wonderful? (And I want more money! Cut the workers' wages! And if I hear one peep about a union you're ALL FIRED!)

Money is nothing more than a measure of value. Who is providing more value to society - you, a guy who is providing jobs to 100 people, thereby enabling them to go out and buy things which in turn provides more jobs....or the guy who showed up late, hungover and dirty, washing dishes?

You're wrong about the workers providing value. The workers are simply selling a product - their labor. The owner buys that product and creates something that society values - a meal.

 

[angelatc]

Every single "problem" you've brought up is a problem of govt structure, regulation, and restriction.

Even granting your assertion that "there is limited room at the top," who would you rather decide who gets there: the consumers exercising free choice, or the government selecting favored producers who necessarily come from the old-money class?

Freedom works, and your sob-stories are no more valid than the "success" stories that you dismiss as "exceptional."

Yep. This country is built on the backs of immigrants who came here with nothing except what they could carry in a chest. A lot of them didn't even speak the language. And life was much better here than it was in the big-government countries that they left because they at least had a chance of making an honest living for themselves. That was the American dream.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Look up Geonomics. No Income or Property Taxes. A big movement. Just for you.

Can't answer a simple, direct question, eh? Hmmm...you aren't exactly the best spokesman for your movement.

 

[Jovan Galtic]

Wow... I am stunned there are so many Marxists ideas...

You people don't know how dangerous that is. A simple thing like his "theory of value" can cost you your freedom and millions of lives.

Yep. This country is built on the backs of immigrants who came here with nothing except what they could carry in a chest. A lot of them didn't even speak the language. And life was much better here than it was in the big-government countries that they left because they at least had a chance of making an honest living for themselves. That was the American dream.

I am one of them and everything you said is true. Marxism needs to be debunked and destroyed. It is evil.

 

[roho76]

There are too many responses here for me to reply to each individual one, but keep this in mind:

The contract between worker and owner in this country is, nine times out of ten, not voluntary. You think the single mother working at Wal-Mart for the minimum wage at 3 am wants to do that? Of course not. The owners (the Walton family) were born into a position of massive wealth and power, and the poor workers were born into a position of poverty and powerlessness. We do not get a "fair shot" in this country, not even remotely, and I think you'd have to be a fool (or so privileged you can't see beyond it) to argue otherwise.

Also, the list of "threats, theft, coercion, and guns" basically sums up what the owners do to preserve their power (see: every labor strike in American history, the corporate control of government, the media, etc.)

Well then why don't you go get a job in China, where everything is controlled by community (I mean government, comrade), and if you bitch about your job they will murder you or if your lucky they will throw you out on the curb where you will be ostracized by the community (I mean government, comrade).

There is no benefit to a company killing you or losing all their employee's due to lack of decent working conditions. As soon as the employees leave over working conditions and the company starts losing money they will change their ways. Also, in America, I know of no time in our history where a company has turned armed guards on people striking against their employer. This is downright false.

Oh, don't forget, a government that can give you everything can also take everything away from you.

I'm convinced that people who carry your mentality and completely disassociate yourself with voluntary association, have a decease of the mind. Lay off the fast food. Little tiny microbes are eating away at your brain and effectively ruining your ability to think rationally.

 

[Todd]

where are all these guys coming from lately ..............lol?