Who exactly are these people commenting on Amash's Facebook?

[Brett85]

I want to know how exactly they died for our freedom. Unless we're going back centuries to the Revolutionary War or 1812, I'm pretty sure I'd still be free, and likely even moreso, if our soldiers hadn't died in the world wars, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, et. al.

So according to you, we didn't even have the right to fight back after we were attacked by Japan in the 30's and by terrorists on September 11, 2001.

 

[Brett85]

BTW I am active duty Army and here is what I posted on Facebook a few hours ago and a speech I gave this weekend.

Which freedom would we not have today if 58,000 Americans had not died in Vietnam?

Which freedom would not have if 8,000 had not died in the middle east?

I am trying figure exactly what freedoms these guys are dying for.

Surely not speech, religion, bear arms, privacy, or due process. Those freedoms are being diminished everyday, but not by the communists or the Muslims.




Wish I could hang around and chit chat, but PT is at 530 in the AM.

Some of the wars that we've been involved in haven't had anything to do with defending our freedoms, absolutely. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that in all these wars, our troops died with the belief that they were defending our freedoms. They felt that they were serving our country and giving back to it.

 

[jj-]

How long would you last in your job if you refused to work???

If your job is to kill innocent people, you should definitely quit.

 

[jj-]

That said, it is not their fault that our government is using them as cannon fodder for "Remaking the Middle East" and other agendas and they don't deserve your hatred.

I can't believe people who pretend to defend liberty think they'll get away with the "just following orders" cop out.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Justin just posted this on Facebook...

I have reconsidered my support for any bill like H.R. 4133, as it pertains to ANY country, in the future.

I recognize that there is a lot of misinformation about this bill. It does only one genuinely substantive thing: It extends an existing line of credit for about three more years. This is not additional funding and certainly not "unlimited aid."

I also disagree with commenters who believe that foreign MILITARY aid and alliances are unconstitutional. If the U.S. government concludes that they are beneficial to OUR defense, then they certainly are constitutional as a Necessary and Proper correlate of Congress's power to raise and support Armies. This has been the view in our country from the Founders on.

However, as a policy matter, I believe that the U.S. should not extend credit (or aid) to another country on an ongoing basis through legislation. It's time for the U.S. to stop acting as a bank to the rest of the world. After all, with Congress and the President refusing to make any substantial changes to our spending policies, our government simply doesn't have any money to lend.

 

[Brett85]

I still think it's hilarious that "libertarians" like JJ are in full agreement with neo-cons like John Bolton on this issue. They both believe that you can't support the troops if you oppose the wars. I guess that just shows that the "JJ libertarians" are every bit as bad as the neo-cons.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Let me be clear, I haven't believed our military is being used to defend our freedom, or any of that nonsense, for quite some time. It clearly is not true, as the enemy who is destroying our freedom is in Washington, D.C.; not in some distant land.

I also wish that Americans would stop volunteering for the military, given that they are being used for unconstitutional actions, overthrowing sovereign nations, installing puppets and while doing this, a lot of innocent people are being killed and maimed. That said, I don't think many of them would do this, if they had figured out what is going on. Don't forget all the support that Ron Paul has from the troops.

Even you, jj, weren't always the all all-knowing perfect individual that you see yourself as. Nor are you now. But, we still accept you.

 

[jj-]

I still think it's hilarious that "libertarians" like JJ are in full agreement with neo-cons like John Bolton on this issue. They both believe that you can't support the troops if you oppose the wars. I guess that just shows that the "JJ libertarians" are every bit as bad as the neo-cons.

In that thing they're right. What you're saying is like: most neocons like chocolate, jj likes chocolate, what a neocon. What is truly sad is that you don't get that saying that you support the troops and not the war is equivalent to saying that you support the killers of innocent people of a country who pose no threat to the United States and oppose the killing of innocent people. I can't even imagine how destroyed your mind must be to allow you to believe such contradictions simultaneously.

Seriously. How can you oppose the killing if you support the killers?

 

[Brett85]

In that thing they're right. What you're saying is like: most neocons like chocolate, jj likes chocolate, what a neocon. What is truly sad is that you don't get that saying that you support the troops and not the war is equivalent to saying that you support the killers of innocent people of a country who pose no threat to the United States and oppose the killing of innocent people. I can't even imagine how destroyed your mind must be to allow you to believe such contradictions simultaneously.

Seriously. How can you oppose the killing if you support the killers?

I don't have a frickin clue what you're talking about. I don't believe that our troops ever try to kill innocent people.

My overall view is that some wars are good, and some are bad. The original war in Afghanistan was a good war. It was a war that was fought in defense of our country. We used military action to defend our country after 3,000 of our fellow Americans died in a terrorist attack. Unfortunately, a good and noble war turned into a completely unnecessary nation building mission in which we used our troops to "remake the Middle East." Our politicians in Washington are currently using our troops in Afghanistan in the wrong way; using them as a global police force.

The war in Iraq was a mistake from the beginning, as we were never attacked or threatened by them. But, our troops weren't the ones who voted to go in there. Members of Congress were. Many of our troops enlisted after 9-11 in order to fight back after the vicious attack that occurred on our soil. That doesn't mean that they thought it was a good idea to invade Iraq.

 

[jj-]

The war in Iraq was a mistake from the beginning, as we were never attacked or threatened by them. But, our troops weren't the ones who voted to go in there. Members of Congress were. Many of our troops enlisted after 9-11 in order to fight back after the vicious attack that occurred on our soil. That doesn't mean that they thought it was a good idea to invade Iraq.

I never thought I would've read a defense of Superior Orders in a forum named after Ron Paul. *shocked*

Apparently this needs to be said: it's a crime to kill innocent people or to invade their countries even if authority tells you it's ok.

 

[Brett85]

"This Memorial Day, let us remember those who have fallen in the defense of the freest, most prosperous nation the world has ever known. We salute you."

Ron Paul

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/112801.html

The most ridiculous thing heard in some churches today (and I know that a lot of ridiculous things were heard), is that we have freedom to worship today because of U.S. soldiers who gave their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just think about how stupid that sounds. If someone said WW2 then I can at least understanding why they might think such a thing. But even then, when Nazi Germany occupied France during WW2, did the evil Germans forbid the French from going to church? Someone with more than my B.A. in history please correct me if I am mistaken.

Updates:

A reader reminds me that the United States in WW2 joined forces with Stalin, a brutal dictator who did prevent lots of people from attending church by means of imprisonment and death.

Another reader reminds me that "under the Saddam Hussein regime, Christianity was tolerated in Iraq. With the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq, Christianity there has almost been obliterated by the American installed government. So, U.S. soldiers played a major role in millions people losing their right to worship as they please."

And no, of course I am not sticking up for occupying Nazi forces in France as some idiot is accusing me of.

What Ron Paul says about Laurence Vance:

He asks me if I tend to read Lawrence Vance, a writer he appreciates, who writes frequently on anti-imperialist and non-interventionist foreign policy themes.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/03/21/a-ron-paul-day-in-la

 

[Brett85]

Ron Paul voted for the war in Afghanistan. It was a direct result of an attack that occurred on our soil; which is an example of a situation where it's appropriate to fight back with military force.

 

[KingNothing]

so what if some random idiot comments? If it's not something Justin said then it shouldn't matter.

If I were him, though, I'd consider not allowing people to comment on my posts. No need to give idiots a platform.

 

[Lishy]

Not always...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...l-networks-to-gather-information-on-suspects/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15869683

Can't it be half idiots, half bots? V_V

 

[Origanalist]

Can't it be half idiots, half bots? V_V

Yes, but the perception remains the same.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Ron Paul voted for the war in Afghanistan. It was a direct result of an attack that occurred on our soil; which is an example of a situation where it's appropriate to fight back with military force.

He didn't vote for a war, and his rhetoric surrounding that vote and his amendments prove it. He spoke out against an occupation and invasion in his speech concerning the vote, and continued to speak out against a war ever since.

Also, he was pressured by staff to vote for it. Unfortunately, he caved.

 

[MelissaWV]

So according to you, we didn't even have the right to fight back after we were attacked by Japan in the 30's and by terrorists on September 11, 2001.

Which famous attack on US soil did the Japanese execute in the 30's? I'm a bit fuzzy on that one.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I can see we aren't getting very far with our argument here, so let me put it this way...if these men and women had not gone to fight in the wars...congress would have started a military draft and force people like you to go fight in a war that you don't even like, under the penalty of jail time or treason. You may start thinking, "How unconstitutional!" I'm sorry, few in Washington D.C. would care about your opinion...you fight or you spend time in jail. So, if you can't be thankful to these men and women because you don't believe they are fighting for your freedom, at least be thankful that they are fighting so that you don't have to go to war yourself.

Actually, not utilizing the draft right now is a very conscience decision. They know that a draft would result in insurmountable public backlash (real protests, draft dodging and political upheaval). It was the lesson learned during the Vietnam war.

It would be much cheaper to have a draft rather than use professional military and a very expensive army of "contractors" of all types. Politically, they know a draft can't be done.

I abhor any disrespect to people who put their lives on the line for our freedom: be it our soldiers or our police, cops, and sheriffs. I have friends and neighbors who are soldiers, sheriffs, sons of cops...and I truly have a deep respect as I think all people should.

Interesting that this discussion came up at a BBQ this weekend. The wife of a Police officer was very much defending the very generous pension plan that they receive based on the "danger" of the work. Other people (also government workers) were quick to jump on that bandwagon. Ironically, many Law Enforcement people are very active fisherman. The case for their dangerous jobs defense (of bloated government spending) was diminished when the fact was pointed out that relatively, it's not really a dangerous job, and that there are many other jobs that are far more dangerous. At the top of the list was fishing, which they all agreed with wholeheartedly as soon as it was pointed out.

(And the most dangerous part of Police work is for those officers who are out driving on the roads, which is why being a truck driver is more dangerous than being in law enforcement).

Just for fun:

http://www.riskmanagementmonitor.com/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america/

1. Fishermen (116.0) — In late June, two people died when a 20-foot fishing boat capsized near the top of Alaska’s panhandle. A third person was able to climb on top of the overturned skiff where he waited for rescue. As the BLS states, “this occupation is characterized by strenuous work, long hours, seasonal employment, and some of the most hazardous conditions in the workforce.”

2. Logging workers (91.9) — This occupation repeatedly takes a spot in the top 10 as not only one of America’s, but the world’s, most dangerous jobs. In one recent example, 61-year-old John Hutt, a Colorado logger, cut off his toes after he became trapped under heavy logging equipment. He then drove himself to an area where there was enough cellphone reception to call an ambulance. In the logging industry, he is considered one of the lucky ones.

3. Airplane pilots and flight engineers (70.6) — It may be hard to believe that working as a police officer is safer than flying a plane, but according to the BLS, this is true. The bureau states that there were 78 fatal work injuries for this industry in 2010.

4. Farmers and ranchers (41.4) — In August, a 40-year-old Illinois farmer was crushed to death by his tractor after it fell into a hole on his farm, which he was filling with dirt. And just this month a woman was hit and run over by a skid loader on a farm in Wisconsin. She was pronounced dead on the scene.

5. Mining machine operators (38.7) — The most infamous accident within this industry is undoubtedly the Upper Big Branch Mine explosion in April of 2010, which claimed the lives of 29 out of the 31 miners on site. The accident was the worst in the United States since 1970, when 38 minters were killed at Finley Coal Company’s mines in Kentucky.

6. Roofers (32.4) — Just three weeks ago, four roofers in San Francisco were seriously injured when the roof of a six-story apartment complex collapsed under them. And in April, a 56-year-old worker was re-securing metal roof panels on a building at Horenberger Field at Illinois Wesleyan University when he fell from scaffolding. He died in the hospital eight days later and his employer, Union Roofing, was cited by OSHA for two safety violations.

7. Sanitation workers (29.8) — A tragic accident occurred on Labor Day when a 17-year-old sanitation employee fell off of a moving garbage truck and was run over, killing him instantly.

8. Truck drivers and delivery workers (21.8) — In March of last year, a commercial truck driver was using his cellphone to make a call when his truck crossed the median in central Kentucky, striking a van that was carrying 12 members of a family. 10 people in the van plus the truck driver were killed. Just this week, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, concluding its investigation of the crash, recommended banning the use of mobile phones by commercial drivers except in emergencies.

9. Industrial machine workers (20.3) — The number of accidents in this field is staggering. In January 2010, a Florida man had his genitals severed off after an accident involving machinery at an Future Foam Carpet Cushion in Orlando. The company was was fined $42,500 by OSHA for 10 serious safety violations.

10. Police officers (18.0) — In 2010, there was a nearly 40% increase in line-of-duty deaths among U.S. law enforcement. The most recent officer death involved Deputy Sheriff Derrick Whittle of the Union County, Georgia, Sheriff’s Office. He was killed in an automobile accident while responding to a call on September 18th. He is the 48th law enforcement officer to be killed in a traffic-related incident in 2011.