When Does Open Immigration Become An Invasion?

[LibertyEagle]

There is a labor shortage WRT people who will meet the demands of employers who currently hire "illegals". If Americans could offer the same value or greater, this issue wouldn't even exist.

That's like saying that I would be justified to rob stores and blame it on high prices. That if prices came down, I wouldn't steal.

 

[William R]

No. The price of agricultural labor isn't "exploding" because the market will not bear $12.50 heads of lettuce. That's why low paying, unskilled labor is in demand. You are only talking about one part of the equation, not the whole thing.

Who Needs Immigrant Labor


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/350684/who-needs-immigrant-labor-thomas-sowell

 

[thoughtomator]

No. The price of agricultural labor isn't "exploding" because the market will not bear $12.50 heads of lettuce. That's why low paying, unskilled labor is in demand. You are only talking about one part of the equation, not the whole thing.

the actual price of lettuce would go up all of five cents by using American labor instead of illegal labor

and I'd rather grow my own lettuce than suffer the downside of importing millions of non-assimilating aliens

 

[thoughtomator]

There is a labor shortage WRT people who will meet the demands of employers who currently hire "illegals". If Americans could offer the same value or greater, this issue wouldn't even exist.

There is no labor shortage, only a wage shortage. Increase the wage and you can fill any job, the only question is the price point.

 

[erowe1]

because you can't talk about shortages without looking at prices..

And when you do look at prices, you realize that there is no such thing as a shortage, ever. Nor is there such thing as a surplus. That's what prices are for. As supply changes, so do they.

 

[erowe1]

non-assimilating aliens

Non-assimilating... to what?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Non-assimilating... to what?

Non assimilating to our mainstream political viewpoint, which is socialistic and neoconservative?

 

[William R]

There is a labor shortage WRT people who will meet the demands of employers who currently hire "illegals". If Americans could offer the same value or greater, this issue wouldn't even exist.

No there isn't. Back in the real world agriculture is one the most subsidized sectors of our economy. Illegals are not providing value to local communities or the American people in the way of lower prices. The price of energy is much more important to agriculture than peasant labor.

 

[erowe1]

Non assimilating to our mainstream political viewpoint, which is socialistic and neoconservative?

It reminds me of this status Robert Higgs recently posted on his Facebook page:

I have grown very weary of the argument that without strict immigration restrictions, foreigners would move here and "destroy our culture." I notice that the people who advance this argument never pause to say exactly what they have in mind by "our culture." But most of us have eyes. If you are one of the fortunate ones who does, open them and look around. The wasteland that you behold out there is "our culture." It's not exactly people sitting in their drawing rooms, reading Virgil's poems in the original Latin while one of Mozart's piano concertos plays softly in the background. It's mostly a collection of some of the most hideous, offensive, and off-putting actions and artifacts imaginable. And it most certainly is not a collective devotion to maintaining a free society; on the contrary, it is a mass of literature, court decisions, and political actions that assault and wreck the people freedoms from A to Z And this wasteland is the precious national treasure that the xenophobes imagine the immigrants will destroy? If only I thought they would do so, I would be quick to say, "bring 'em on!"

 

[erowe1]

Illegals are not providing value to local communities or the American people in the way of lower prices.

Obviously they are. Isn't that your complaint? That they work for lower pay than Americans would be getting in the same jobs if they weren't here?

 

[LibertyEagle]

Non-assimilating... to what?

Into the American culture; the principles upon which the country was founded and back when we remotely held and followed them, made us the beacon of liberty around the world. The principles you should know, but clearly do not.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Absolutely. You can call them peasants if you wish. I have an extremely hard time hiring US citizens to do what I do.

I remember when, 20 years ago, we could easily hire high school kids to drive tractors plowing fields and hauling hay. It's non-existant now even in a rural area. They don't want to do it and their parents don't want them to do it.

Notice I didn't say we wanted to hire them to actually harvest or plant crops. No. But we do trust adult illegal aliens because they are not so distracted by being an idiot pop culture savvy American.

Yep, there was a time when teenagers did a lot of the work that is now done by illegal or new immigrants. And since it's now adults doing this work, there is a push for so-called "living wages".

So how many of the local citizens are receiving any government assistance?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Into the American culture; the principles upon which the country was founded and back when we remotely held and followed them, made us the beacon of liberty around the world. The principles you should know, but clearly

Oh. That culture.

Government can never maintain culture. Government always destroys culture.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

And when you do look at prices, you realize that there is no such thing as a shortage, ever. Nor is there such thing as a surplus. That's what prices are for. As supply changes, so do they.

Your absolutes that defy common sense don't make for a convincing argument. There are shortages, and there are surpluses. Prices don't always fix that. And if there is an item with inelastic demand, such as food, when it runs out, there is a shortage. If someone needs (or even wants something) they could bid up the price, but that doesn't mean that they would be the highest bidder. A shortage of money prevents someone from buying everything they want, and sometimes, what they need.

Of course the Fed can create more money, and everyone can go into debt. That will solve that nasty money shortage. Then Alan Greenspan will say, "hey we better import more cheap labor, because we don't want to create too much wage and price inflation."

 

[erowe1]

Into the American culture

What is that? And how specifically does one assimilate to it?

 

[Ender]

Into the American culture; the principles upon which the country was founded and back when we remotely held and followed them, made us the beacon of liberty around the world. The principles you should know, but clearly do not.

What culture? There was never an American culture.

Our beacon of freedom immediately destroyed the native culture, brought slaves over- both black & white- and then any freedom of choice with the War Between the States, while invading the Philippines, the Hawaiians, etc.

And, the same argument was used against the Irish, the Japanese, the Spanish- and if you've ever been to any major city, you are going to find a China Town, German Town, Barrio, etc.

 

[RonPaulMall]

Easy. Under no circumstances is open immigration an invasion. Consider the open immigration any one of the United States has from any other. None of this crossing of state lines, no matter how much it happens, is an invasion.

Tell that to the Native Americans. Or the Serbs of Kosovo. Or the Tibetans. Or the Palestinians.

 

[phill4paul]

This^^ This thread is reminding me of debates I've heard back in the 90's about offshoring labor like product assistance, manufacturing, etc to places like India and China. People arguing against that are as ignorant as the people around here militantly opposing foreign laborers. No understanding of markets whatsoever. SMFH.

It took me 2 hrs time on a customer assistance line w/ someone from India to set my dad up his Tracfone.

 

[timosman]

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