UPDATE: Women have a RIGHT to FREE contraception.

I know exactly who he is, and I appreciate your intellectual snobbery. I'll go out on a limb and say that I'm more familiar with him than you are, and that I saw The Century of Self before you did. His own words do nothing but support my original claim - he was just working for his employer. All he was trying to do was tap into a new market. He wasn't some sinister, whisker-twisting villain. He was a real guy. Just like the rest of us. Except he was in tune with the human subconscious more than rest.

Using mass mind control on people is sinister--sorry, he doesn't get a pass by me!

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.

Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet.”

~Edward Bernays, Propaganda
 
Using mass mind control on people is sinister--sorry, he doesn't get a pass by me!

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.

Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet.”

~Edward Bernays, Propaganda


It's like you missed the entire point of everything Bernays did, and the documentary Adam Curtis made.

Bernays did what many before him and many after him attempted to do - connect with peoples' desires and push them in a position that was to his advantage. He just happened to be better at it than anyone else.

I hate to break it to you, but there is no big lie. There is no system. The universe is indifferent.

You need to keep that line in mind when you're thinking through this stuff. The "invisible governors" Bernays mentions aren't whisker-twisting super villains. They're the men and women who have risen to the top of their respective fields, people who drive advancement, discourse, and opinion. They're "unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet" because there is no "inner cabinet" in the sense you believe there to be. It isn't a secret cabal. It's individuals pursuing their own best interest, based on their own value system that they developed to cope with our indifferent universe.
 
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I hate to break it to you, but there is no big lie. There is no system. The universe is indifferent.

Yes of course. Buying up all the major newspapers to control information around the turn of the century and then all media is just coincidence. And that goes for public education too! As is the central banking system. And of course "non-profit" organizations and NGOs, etc. Silly Reece Commission.
 
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Yes of course. Buying up all the major newspapers to control information around the turn of the century and then all media is just coincidence. And that goes for public education too! As is the central banking system. And of course "non-profit" organizations and NGOs, etc. Silly Reece Commission.

that's your problem, you think there's only 2 options, either your version of conspiracy, or its coincidence. Could it partial of both or some other plan where you got the details wrong? It's a pretty crappy conspiracy if you exposed it, isn't it?
 
that's your problem, you think there's only 2 options, either your version of conspiracy, or its coincidence. Could it partial of both or some other plan where you got the details wrong? It's a pretty crappy conspiracy if you exposed it, isn't it?

No, your problem is you're just a past banned troll, repeatedly. I see shades of grey, you haven't a clue, but pretend you do. Your shallow and don't do the research. Just chuck the spears.
 
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I just wonder how they expect to keep the Ponzi-scheme going if they shrink the population. Without debtors and tax payer's increasing at the same rate of their Inflation the debt will continue to grow exponentially faster than it can be paid off. The lack of significant population increase is what killed the Fiat experiment in the first place.
 
No, your problem is you're just a past banned troll, repeatedly. I see shades of grey, you haven't a clue, but pretend you do. Your shallow and don't do the research. Just chuck the spears.

if you see shades of grey, you shouldn't resort to saying "oh, then it's just coincidence" when somebody doesn't believe your conspiracy.
 
if you see shades of grey, you shouldn't resort to saying "oh, then it's just coincidence" when somebody doesn't believe your conspiracy.

And I don't. I have been looking into these subjects for a long time. RPFs has been here almost 5 years now and these subjects have been gone over with a fine tooth comb many times already.

Just bump old threads to see discussions from very enlighten and articulate individuals, many who do not participate anymore...fatigue? I may have become rather flippant when seeing the same tired old shit rehashed by "new" members (probably old banned ones, like you).

Yeah, it is easy to just reply to any topic and be a spear chucker from the stands. I should go back to ignoring your posts, as I now you feed upon responses to your nonsense.
 
People complaining about birth control then also complaining about welfare are being oxymorons. Just think if people used birth control there would be less welfare going out. I am just saying it is probably cheaper to pay for birth control then pay for welfare for babies/kids. So maybe you should consider the cost of this political stance.
 
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And I don't. I have been looking into these subjects for a long time. RPFs has been here almost 5 years now and these subjects have been gone over with a fine tooth comb many times already.

Just bump old threads to see discussions from very enlighten and articulate individuals, many who do not participate anymore...fatigue? I may have become rather flippant when seeing the same tired old shit rehashed by "new" members (probably old banned ones, like you).

Yeah, it is easy to just reply to any topic and be a spear chucker from the stands. I should go back to ignoring your posts, as I now you feed upon responses to your nonsense.

I don't question whether you've studied what you claim. But you said this, how else was I going to read it other than "if you don't believe there's a big lie, a system, and a conspiracy, then you must believe it's coincidence" , what part of what you said here shows you see a gray area?

Yes of course. Buying up all the major newspapers to control information around the turn of the century and then all media is just coincidence. And that goes for public education too! As is the central banking system. And of course "non-profit" organizations and NGOs, etc. Silly Reece Commission.


I'm not going to bump old threads unless I find them first, and I wouldn't quite know where to start.
 
I don't question whether you've studied what you claim. But you said this, how else was I going to read it other than "if you don't believe there's a big lie, a system, and a conspiracy, then you must believe it's coincidence" , what part of what you said here shows you see a gray area?

Yes of course. Buying up all the major newspapers to control information around the turn of the century and then all media is just coincidence. And that goes for public education too! As is the central banking system. And of course "non-profit" organizations and NGOs, etc. Silly Reece Commission.


I'm not going to bump old threads unless I find them first, and I wouldn't quite know where to start.

OK, so you just stumbled upon RPFs? Never been here before Jan 2012?

How did you find out about this place?
 
I'm all for contraception, but they want me to pay for someone else's? REALLY? Now that's messed up!

Damn dirty arse hoes...
 
Yes of course. Buying up all the major newspapers to control information around the turn of the century and then all media is just coincidence. And that goes for public education too! As is the central banking system. And of course "non-profit" organizations and NGOs, etc. Silly Reece Commission.

Who said it was coincidence? There's a huge jump between saying that titans of industry work within and manipulate the rule of law to their benefit, and claiming that there is an overarching cabal, monitoring all industries and pulling strings in each of them like a puppeteer.

There is no big lie. There are, on the other hand, billions of small ones that every individual engages in while striving to fulfill his conscious and sub-conscious desires. To check those small lies -lies that are a consequence of our human nature- people have created traditions, religion, morality, distractions and laws. Some people (and maybe every Ron Paul supporter) have seen beyond most or all of those trivialities that society has foisted upon us to keep us on the straight and narrow. We understand a greater morality and don't need all or most of those things to behave appropriately. That does not mean, however, that anyone who has not or does not want to brush aside all or most of those things is stupid or ignorant, and it does not mean that anyone who knows the game and takes advantage of it is evil. They're all just people doing what they need to do to make it through a day, and an overwhelming majority of them are kind at heart and would never knowingly harm anyone else.

You know, before the stock market crash a culture of materialism and consumerism was growing in America. People were being pushed into purchasing things that they really didn't need. Were the ad men who offered corporations a way to emotionally connect a product to an individual evil, or were they just giving people with disposable income a manner to fulfill subconscious desires? This, I think, is one of the reasons that a series like Mad Men is so amazing. It shows how ad men operated in the post-war era, when Americans had oodles of disposable income to spend on things they didn't need. Corporations competed for those dollars that American families found superfluous, and they turned to ad men like Bernays or David Ogilvy for help. They weren't the masterminds of some big lie. They were individuals, selling other individuals a way to connect a product to a third group of people. All of their interests intersected at that point. It wasn't a secret cabal that produced a phallic car for Joe Average to buy, it was an automotive company created, staffed and managed by individuals acting in their own self-interest. It wasn't a secret cabal that convinced Joe Average that the automobile would allow him to express himself in a certain way or that it would make him happier. It was an advertising agency, created, staffed and managed by individuals acting in their own self-interest.

I hate to break it to you, but there is no big lie. There is no system. The universe is indifferent.

Sometimes people will cheat, and steal, and hurt others to get ahead. Sometimes they will work with others to get ahead. Sometimes that work will be in secret, sometimes it will be open to the public. It's just the way people operate.

It's convenient to view the world in a completely non-nuanced fashion and to believe that a family of bankers struck it rich during the Napoleonic Wars and has been guiding the world since then, or that the Vatican has been calling the shots in secret for 1500 years, or that everything you see on television was funded by George Soros. ...but real life is much scarier than that. There is no one at the helm. No hand is guiding us. We're at the whims of conscious and sub-conscious desires and luck. THAT'S how indifferent the universe is.
 
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It's like you missed the entire point of everything Bernays did, and the documentary Adam Curtis made.

Bernays did what many before him and many after him attempted to do - connect with peoples' desires and push them in a position that was to his advantage. He just happened to be better at it than anyone else.

I hate to break it to you, but there is no big lie. There is no system. The universe is indifferent.

You need to keep that line in mind when you're thinking through this stuff. The "invisible governors" Bernays mentions aren't whisker-twisting super villains. They're the men and women who have risen to the top of their respective fields, people who drive advancement, discourse, and opinion. They're "unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet" because there is no "inner cabinet" in the sense you believe there to be. It isn't a secret cabal. It's individuals pursuing their own best interest, based on their own value system that they developed to cope with our indifferent universe.

How about this LIE?

Edward Bernays and the Fluoride Deception

An excerpt from "The Fluoride Deception"

A discussion with journalist Chris Bryson about Edward Bernays' role in the promotion of water fluoridation.

[video=google;4127471896206528068]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4127471896206528068&q=Edward+Bernays[/video]
 
How about this LIE?

Edward Bernays and the Fluoride Deception

An excerpt from "The Fluoride Deception"

A discussion with journalist Chris Bryson about Edward Bernays' role in the promotion of water fluoridation.

[video=google;4127471896206528068]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4127471896206528068&q=Edward+Bernays[/video]

Yeah. So? It's not the big lie that Draper was referencing. It's not a plot by whisker-twisting super villains.

Many people believed then, like many people believe now, that fluoride is good for your teeth. Other people have an interest in selling it or using it. It's a convergence of interests. Why wouldn't people within the related professions and industries want to convince others of its importance? Why wouldn't they want to hire the best in the business to push their view point? And it should be noted that cavities are almost non-existent now and dental-health is better than it has ever been at any point in human history.

EDIT: This is not to say that I endorse the fluoridation of water. On philosophical grounds I oppose it, just as I would almost any form of government intervention and the potential risks far outweight, in my opinion, the potential rewards.

EDIT 2: FWIW, I grew up in the town Philip Sadtler did his Fluoride research in.
 
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Yeah. So? It's not the big lie that Draper was referencing. It's not a plot by whisker-twisting super villains.

Many people believed then, like many people believe now, that fluoride is good for your teeth. Why wouldn't people of that persuasion want to convince others of its importance? Why wouldn't they want to hire the best in the business to push their view point? And it should be noted that cavities are almost non-existent now and dental-health is better than it has ever been at any point in human history.

EDIT: This is not to say that I endorse the fluoridation of water. On philosophical grounds I oppose it, just as I would almost any form of government intervention.

Many people were manipulated to "think" fluoride is good for them.

http://web.archive.org/web/20000823.../~mgfree/Medical/Fluorine/FluorineApathy.html

"The first occurrence of fluoridated drinking water was found in Germany's Nazi prison camps, which were maintained partly by I.G. Farben. The Gestapo had little concern about fluoride's supposed effect on children's teeth; their alleged reason for mass-medicating water with sodium fluoride was to sterilize humans and force them into calm submission." (Ref. book: "The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben" by Joseph Borkin.

1950's comment by Edward L. Bernays, nephew of Sigmund Freud and PR man for the fluoridation project under Oscar Ewing:

"... the most direct way to reach the mind of the HERD is through the leaders. ... Public Health Officers cannot afford the professional modesty professed by physicians. A redefinition of ethics is necessary.... and the subject matter of the propaganda need not necessarily be true." (Book: Crystallizing Public Opinion, by E. L. Bernays.)






The Case Against Fluoride by Paul Connett and James Beck
http://www.westonaprice.org/thumbs-...ainst-fluoride-by-paul-connett-and-james-beck

Forgotten tooth decay cure : heal your cavities and prevent root canals
http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blo...-heal-your-cavities-and-prevent-root-canals-2

Charlie's Story

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-alert/charlies-story

WESTON A PRICE BROCHURE
http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/mediaFliers/WAPBrochure.php

Weston Price, The World's Greatest Dentist

http://www.curetoothdecay.com/Dentistry/weston_price_dentist.htm

How I Healed My Child’s Cavity

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/how-i-healed-my-childs-cavity/
 
People complaining about birth control then also complaining about welfare are being oxymorons. Just think if people used birth control there would be less welfare going out. I am just saying it is probably cheaper to pay for birth control then pay for welfare for babies/kids. So maybe you should consider the cost of this political stance.

Even better is we should implement mandatory sterilization for those making poverty level wages. That'd fix the problem right up.
 
People complaining about birth control then also complaining about welfare are being oxymorons. Just think if people used birth control there would be less welfare going out. I am just saying it is probably cheaper to pay for birth control then pay for welfare for babies/kids. So maybe you should consider the cost of this political stance.

Agreed, a major cost savings in the long run. Think of the big picture.
 
Many people were manipulated to "think" fluoride is good for them.

I can't watch Youtube videos at work, but I imagine I've already seen everything you've linked me to. I am familiar with fluoride, fluoride science and it's history. I've never rejected the claims that it is harmful to you. All I reject -and I haven't even done so yet- is that it is A Plot By the Man To Keep Us Down, and docile, and without children, and stupid.

Child birth rates in westernized places that have not banned fluoridation are no lower than westernized areas that have. How about IQs and violent crime? Think there's any difference there? I don't. If fluoride has been added to our water to influence our behavior The Illuminati have failed miserably. Foiled again, by those darn kids! And they didn't even have to use their darn internets to do it!

A more likely scenario is that interested parties worked to add fluoride to water because they honestly believed it to help Joe Average more than it harmed Joe Average. Whether that it does or not is up for plenty of debate at this point.
 
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People complaining about birth control then also complaining about welfare are being oxymorons. Just think if people used birth control there would be less welfare going out. I am just saying it is probably cheaper to pay for birth control then pay for welfare for babies/kids. So maybe you should consider the cost of this political stance.


That's a terrible way to view human life. Let's fix the economy, cure the disease of dependency and work as individuals to set a good example for others to follow that includes healthy, safe and intelligent reproductive practices. "Birth control saves us monies" is a narrow, short-sighted solution for our problems.

EDIT: That's not to say that this particular issue amounts to a hill of beans. It really doesn't, when compared to wars in the middle east, the Federal Reserve, the erosion of civil liberties, and our unfunded liabilities. But the mentality matters. With the right mentality and the proper thought process, we can solve ALL of these problems. THAT is why Ron Paul rules.
 
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