UPDATE: Women have a RIGHT to FREE contraception.

that if you swallow what's on the toothbrush you're to call poison control. That is absolutely absurd, but it's emblematic of the style employed by these guys.

Imagine if I called poison control after my kid swallowed toothpaste, the poison control asks me what happened, I said 'OMFG! He swallowed toothpaste!' He responds 'I doubt it's enough to worry, but I'll come over, or you can bring him over'. When I take him to the ER, they do blood, saliva, whatever tests, even force my kid to throw up to be safe.

What will they conclude? "Sir, your child did swallow toothpaste, but I can't notice anything in him that isn't acquired by a normal person drinking flouridated water" Oh no! Poison control is SO in on it! He even gave me a "safe to swallow" toothpaste with no warning label!
 
Whoa, thanks for breaking that to me.

Did I say such a thing?

Yes, at least once. Hence my post in response to you. If I somehow misrepresented you, sorry and I'm happy to learn you aren't a Trutherist Who Thinks the Rothschild's Are Poisoning Us With Fluoride.

People (rich and connected ones) do collaborate together and influence politicians and their legislation. It has been shown many times, even here on RPFs. If you don't see that, you are blind.

Show me a regulation, and I can show you a advocacy group behind it for their own self interest, not at all altruistic. Almost always impeding self reliance and fair competition.


I do see that. In fact, it was in the opening sentence of my response to you, I think.
 
Imagine if I called poison control after my kid swallowed toothpaste, the poison control asks me what happened, I said 'OMFG! He swallowed toothpaste!' He responds 'I doubt it's enough to worry, but I'll come over, or you can bring him over'. When I take him to the ER, they do blood, saliva, whatever tests, even force my kid to throw up to be safe.

What will they conclude? "Sir, your child did swallow toothpaste, but I can't notice anything in him that isn't acquired by a normal person drinking flouridated water" Oh no! Poison control is SO in on it! He even gave me a "safe to swallow" toothpaste with no warning label!

You have to swallow a significant amount of toothpaste for it to be a problem. The warning label even says that you should call if you swallow an abnormal amount, not the pea-sized serving they had dotted on their toothbrush.
It's that sort of silly hyperbole that makes the entire argument hard to take.

And I don't even think water should be fluoridated. Bombastic claims do not help our cause.
 
Conspiracy Theories are cleverly designed to ask questions to which there is no evidence available to support truth.
It's the dulling effect to Occam's razor.
 
Conspiracy Theories are cleverly designed to ask questions to which there is no evidence available to support truth.
It's the dulling effect to Occam's razor.

Occam's Razor hasn't been so sharp since the failure of the Unifying Theory, which never panned out to be as simple as Occam's Razor demanded. Too many people misapply Occam's Razor, as it require the full dataset and every variable to be known to be properly applied. It states that right in the original thesis that,"...all thing's being equal", which nothing is truly equal if you do not have all of the variables at hand.

I continually see people fall back on Empiricism as if it were the end all of Human intellectual discovery. They never pay attention that the greatest breakthroughs of scientific discovery have always been done through rationalization. Forbid anyone ever mention that though.

What is even more disturbing is that this site is based on a Libertarian style political figure. Libertarianism is a rational Philosophy, so Occam's Razor is rather inconsistent with the Principles that this site is intending to promote.

As for the Evil Whisker Twisting Villians, well let's just say history is filled with examples of such men. We can start with Genghis and move our way up Hitler Lenin, Mao and then onto a little guy named Kim for examples. The American populace is not exceptional, and therefore will obviously have these sort of characters as well. The Existence of the CFR and the Bilderburg group is proof of this. Human's do not fall into either yes or no situations, and they do not act rationally, nor empirically. Empiricism is flawed in that it requires solid hard evidence, when most of the time Motive and Ability are really that is needed to prove anything in court.

I guess what I'm trying to say that anyone that says the Universe is Indifferent, is not grounded in reality. Human's are not the Universe, and they do not act in ways predictable by any sort of Math that can be applied rationally.
 
Occam's Razor hasn't been so sharp since the failure of the Unifying Theory, which never panned out to be as simple as Occam's Razor demanded. Too many people misapply Occam's Razor, as it require the full dataset and every variable to be known to be properly applied. It states that right in the original thesis that,"...all thing's being equal", which nothing is truly equal if you do not have all of the variables at hand.

I continually see people fall back on Empiricism as if it were the end all of Human intellectual discovery. They never pay attention that the greatest breakthroughs of scientific discovery have always been done through rationalization. Forbid anyone ever mention that though.

What is even more disturbing is that this site is based on a Libertarian style political figure. Libertarianism is a rational Philosophy, so Occam's Razor is rather inconsistent with the Principles that this site is intending to promote.

As for the Evil Whisker Twisting Villians, well let's just say history is filled with examples of such men. We can start with Genghis and move our way up Hitler Lenin, Mao and then onto a little guy named Kim for examples. The American populace is not exceptional, and therefore will obviously have these sort of characters as well. The Existence of the CFR and the Bilderburg group is proof of this. Human's do not fall into either yes or no situations, and they do not act rationally, nor empirically. Empiricism is flawed in that it requires solid hard evidence, when most of the time Motive and Ability are really that is needed to prove anything in court.

I guess what I'm trying to say that anyone that says the Universe is Indifferent, is not grounded in reality. Human's are not the Universe, and they do not act in ways predictable by any sort of Math that can be applied rationally.

EAch of those things you mention have some basis in fact. That was never the object of the statement.
Todays scientific investigators have a way of drawing conclusions while using only the facts which support those conclustions and ignoring all others.
Thus the dulling statement.

However I do believe in the non-universal theory of neutrinos create the applied force which we interpret as gravity.
All movement in nature requires "push" Not "pull"
 
EAch of those things you mention have some basis in fact. That was never the object of the statement.
Todays scientific investigators have a way of drawing conclusions while using only the facts which support those conclustions and ignoring all others.
Thus the dulling statement.

However I do believe in the non-universal theory of neutrinos create the applied force which we interpret as gravity.
All movement in nature requires "push" Not "pull"

The statement was more directed at another individual that keep's pushing the Empirical argument in this thread. You just happened to be the last one to push such an argument. Although yours applies far better than the other, which was just a nonsensical comment. Most Science these day's is done by the state, and they have a vested interest in specific results, thusly the situation you mentioned.


It's just as likely that gravity is a result of thermal expansion into entropy with some sort of application of reverse wave theory. The math supports it, but there is no actual way of experimenting with such a method without leaving Earth. In reality it's not likely we will ever know, as the more totalitarian the world becomes the slower actual scientific progress will proceed.
 
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If pregnant women are not a threat to U.S. Security then I see no reason why FREE contraception should exist. It's just another issue they want people to get wrapped up in so that politicians don't talk about what really matters.
 
If pregnant women are not a threat to U.S. Security then I see no reason why FREE contraception should exist. It's just another issue they want people to get wrapped up in so that politicians don't talk about what really matters.

So you are willing to spend my money for me then? You have no obligations with taking my money from me by the threat of force and giving it to another person?
 
Is violence a sign of docile or intelligence?

You ever heard about Prozac? Prozac (and similar drugs) can cause people to become violent and crazy. Prozac is a fluorinated drug called "fluoxetine". Prozac is 94% fluoride.









http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-08-Prozac-Paxil-Fluorophenyl.htm

Prozac is a fluorinated drug called "fluoxetine".

Paxil is a fluorinated drug called "paroxetine" (also called Seroxat, Aropax). These drugs are designed to inhibit the reuptake of serotonin (serotonin reuptake inhibitors - SSRIs) and hence interfere with the biological actions of serotonin, a neurotransmitter.

Both drugs contain fluorine and chloride. Fluoride is present as a '4-fluorophenyl' compound, part of the 'active' ingredient.

Fluorophenyl compounds are found as major metabolites in the human organism from Paxil and Prozac, as well as from pesticides as Flusilazole (Anderson et al, 1999), Fluorbenside; FOE 5043 (Christenson et al, 1996), other drugs such as dexfenfluramine ("Redux"; "Fen-Phen" - now withdrawn) (Kalin et al, 2000); Fluvastatin (Top 200 drugs) (Dain et al, 1993); Flutrimazole (skin cream) (Conte et al, 1992); AD-5423 (an anti-psychotic) (Oka et al, 1993), Bay U 3405 (Braun et al, 1990); Cisapride (also now withdrawn from US market), Leflunamide (Arava) etc...

Fluorophenyl compounds have shown to disturb thyroid hormone activity in several ways, specifically in the liver and at the hypothalamus-pituitary-thyroid (HPT) axis.

Observations

In depressed patients receiving paroxetine the T4 level was reduced by 11. 2% (Konig et al, 2000).

In animals chronic administration of fluoxetine results in a decrease in both T4 and T3 levels. The authors reported that the major effect of the drug “seems to be stimulation of TSH synthesis and release via the inhibition of T4-mediated thyroid-pituitary feedback” (Golstein et al, 1983).

In rat brain, fluoxetine has also been shown to interfere with local T3 metabolism (Eravci et al, 2000; Baumgartner et al, 1994).

Liver

In the 1930s is was first observed that all fluoride compounds, organic and inorganic ones, inhibit thyroid hormones. This was first established in the 1930s by experiments conducted by Prof. Kurt Kraft who exposed tadpoles (bufo vulgaris, rana temporaria) to fluoride compounds including sodium fluoride, fluorotyrosine and fluorobenzoic acid (Kraft, 1937). Numerous fluoride compounds were used subsequently as the first line of treatment for hyperthyroidism in various countries, for several decades.

1940s experiments on animals were conducted by Euler et al. which showed that all fluoride compounds acted upon liver glycogen, the difference being a matter of amplitude (Euler et al, 1949). Some organic compounds caused identical effects in bone and teeth as inorganic fluorides (Euler et al, 1942).

In 1996, Christensen et al. tested the experimental herbicide FOE 5043 (4-fluorophenyl-containing) specifically on thyroid hormone function in the liver, after earlier tests had suggested that the observed reduced circulating serum T4 levels were due to extrathyroidal activity.

"In the liver, the actvity of hepatitic uridine glucoronosyl transferase, a major pathway of thyroid hormone biotransformation in the rat, increased in a statistically significant and dose-dependent manner, conversely hepatitic 5-monodeiodinase [D1] trended downward with dose. Bile flow and bilary excretion of T4 were increased. These data suggests that the functional status of the thyroid and pituitary glands has not been altered by treatment with FOE 5043 and that reductions in circulating levels of T4 are being mediated indirectly through an increase in the biotransformation and excretion of thyroid hormone in the liver."

Urichuk et al (1997) showed that levels of fluorophenyl metabolites after fluoxetine administration were 10-fold higher in the liver of rats than in brain.

CNS

In the 1940s numerous investigators were of the opinion that - besides being active in liver - organic fluorides could also be causing disturbances at the hypothalamus-pituitary (HP) axis, due to their high affinity for the central nervous system (CNS) (Litzka, 1937, May, 1950).

Later investigations into such compounds as fluoxetine confirmed those suspicions (Jackson et al, 1998; Baumgartner et al, 1994; Golstein et al, 1983).

In humans fluoxetine treatment reduced TRH-induced TSH release in both normal and obese women (Pijl et al, 1993). In a hypothalamic neuronal culture system fluoxetine decreased TRH levels (Jackson et al, 1998). In other tissue (rabbits - colon) it has shown to enhance TRH activity (Horita & Carino, 1982).

In humans, fluvoxamine (Luvox) also causes a decreased TSH response in the TRH test, indicating disturbances in the hypothalamus-pituitary-thyroid (HPT) axis. It caused decreased basal TSH levels (De Mendonca et al, 1997).

Fluoxetine has been found to inhibit D2 and D3 deiodinase activities in the rat brain (Eravci et al, 2000; Baumgartner et al, 1994).

These deiodinases - of which there are three (D1, D2 and D3) - are responsible for T4 to T3 conversion. While D1 is mainly expressed in the liver, kidney and the thyroid, D2 is found in the central nervous system, the pituitary, skeletal muscle and adipose tissue. D3 is responsible for the production of reverse T3 (rT3).

P450 System

Fluorophenyl compounds are potent inhibitors of the cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzyme system in the liver.

Prolonged inhibition of P450 leads to thyroid hormone reduction. Thyroid hormones, in turn, modulate the levels of P450 in the liver, where the majority of thyroid hormone synthesis occurs (T4 ->T3).

Drug Interactions

Fluoxetine is a known inhibitor of multiple P450 isoenzymes, thus interfering with the metabolism of other substances (Thompson et al, 1997; 2003).

Fluoxetine thus may potentiate the effects of other drugs manyfold (Daniel et al, 1999a, 1999b). Fluoxetine potently increased (up to 13 times) the concentrations of thioridazine and its metabolites in the plasma (Daniel et al, 1999), due to synergistic pharmacodynamic effects and the influence of fluoxetine on the bioavailability of such compounds.

Selenoproteins

Studies in rat liver slices showed intracellular glutathione levels decreased and fluoride ion levels increased in a time and concentration-dependent manner by fluoxetine (Thompson et al, 1997).

Like the deiodinases, glutathione peroxidase is another selenoprotein-containing enzyme which further modulates iodine metabolism.

Glutathione peroxidase levels are considered a diagnostic tool in fluoride poisoning - discriminating between mild and severe chronic fluorosis (Guan, 1983).

Several animal studies show that fluoxetine causes a decline in T3 levels and affects T3 production in various tissue, including brain (Eravci et al, 2000; Lin et al, 1999; Baumgartner et al, 1994; Shelton et al, 1993). .

Because of their vast effects on the thyroid hormone system, it is of great importance that anybody wishing to get off such medications as Paxil, Prozac, Luvox etc. does so very gradually.

Other Assorted Prozac Facts

Infants who were breastfed by mothers taking fluoxetine demonstrated a growth curve significantly below that of infants who were breastfed by mothers who did not take the drug (Chambers et al, 1999). Newborn mouse pups exposed to paroxetine were more likely to have low birthweights (Rayburn et al, 2000). Low birth weight is related to thyroid status of the mother.

Fluoxetine has been shown to cause severe liver dysfunction such as hepatitis (Cai et al, 1999; Johnston & Wheeler, 1997; Mars et al, 1991; Friedenberg & Rothstein, 1996).

Fluoxetine has also been shown to cause secondary hyperthyroidism - originating from pituitary dysfunction (Martinez & Ortiz, 1999).

Visual hallucinations have been found associated with use of fluoxetine (Bourgeois et al, 1998).

Dyskinesia has been reported with use of fluoxetine. (Duborvski & Thomas, 1996).

Fluoxetine showed tumor-promoting activity in rat liver , as did fenfluramine, another fluorophenyl-containing fluoride compound (Lin et al, 1999). [Ed: as does PFOS - "Scotchgard")].

Like other, inorganic fluoride compounds, 4-fluorophenyl shows activity upon TXA2/PGA2 receptors (Marcin et al. 1999).


http://ssristories.com/index.php
http://www.somatropinonline.com/PRG-196/prozac-depression-ocd-bulimia-nervosa.htm
http://www.livestrong.com/article/256742-dangers-of-fluoride-prescription-drugs/


You know you and KingNothing accuse me of a holier than thou attitude when all it takes is some precious time from your daily lives to get educated. There is literally thousands of articles and scientific studies out there, proving these facts and the conspiracy is in plain view. You need to learn to research reliable sources and cross reference them and critically think about the issues presented before dismissing them out of hand due to ignorance.
 
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You have to swallow a significant amount of toothpaste for it to be a problem. The warning label even says that you should call if you swallow an abnormal amount, not the pea-sized serving they had dotted on their toothbrush.
It's that sort of silly hyperbole that makes the entire argument hard to take.

And I don't even think water should be fluoridated. Bombastic claims do not help our cause.

Bombastic? silly Hyperbole?

When you are inundated with sodium fluoride from water, products in supermarkets and drugs, how much is too much, you think? :rolleyes: hyperbole? If your drinking water has sodium fluoride then the showers you take have it too. You skin will soak up a lot of fluoride, not to mention, you are breathing in the steam vapors.

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Bombastic? silly Hyperbole?

When you are inundated with sodium fluoride from water, products in supermarkets and drugs, how much is too much, you think? :rolleyes: hyperbole? If your drinking water has sodium fluoride then the showers you take have it too. You skin will soak up a lot of fluoride, not to mention, you are breathing in the steam vapors.

And yet, fluoridated Americans are more violent than other westernized people and would have life-spans longer than almost every other nation if we just stopped killing ourselves. Funny how that worked out, in spite of deadly fluoride harming us all, dumbing us down, and numbing our emotions. Saying we're being slow-killed, made docile, made dumb, made sterilized, whatever is hyperbole. There's absolutely no proof to support the claim.

Is fluoride harmful? Yes. Is it harmful in our water supply? Probably. Should it be removed from our water? Yes. Is fluoridation of our water part of a Big Lie to bring about the End of America? C'mon, man.
 
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lmao. Anybody with an intro class of chemistry in college can tell you, you dont get steam of salt or its anions. If fluorIDE is added as a salt, its never becoming fluorINE gas any time soon without electrolysis. Unless NaF decomposes in w hot water into F gas ? So no, you cannot breath in either fluorINE gas or any fluorIDE salt, anions if its added in water as a salt component. You must be thinking of HCN :p

Bombastic? silly Hyperbole?

When you are inundated with sodium fluoride from water, products in supermarkets and drugs, how much is too much, you think? :rolleyes: hyperbole? If your drinking water has sodium fluoride then the showers you take have it too. You skin will soak up a lot of fluoride, not to mention, you are breathing in the steam vapors.

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