TX - 21 Dead, Dozens Injured in Texas Elementary School Shooting

[acptulsa]

 

[Anti Globalist]

Are the Officers OK ?

Yes. By not entering the school, they ensured their lives are safe while the same can't be said about the 21 people that lost their lives.

 

[oyarde]

This mornings headline on Insider , Retired Federal agent may have known about plans for Buffalo shooting ahead of massacre, report says .By Bill Bostck at Business Insider

 

[Okie RP fan]

Arm Ukrainian’s!

Dis Arm American’s!

Clown show.

It most certainly is.
It's perfectly OK to arm Ukrainian civilians and their military (give them rifles, bombs, drones, tank busters, etc.) so they can protect their sovereignty against the ruskies (all started by a U.S. backed coup and Ukraine not following up on established treaties for 7 years), but here in America? "Nope, you racist, misogynist REEEEEE REEEEEEEEE, you need your guns taken away!"

The left is mentally ill.

---

Now that I've had a few days to digest all of this and the emotional fog of war is lifted, this kid was yet another depressed psycho. Looks like he didn't live with his parents, but his grandparents (grandpa was supposedly a felon). Some reports are being put out that he was often made fun for his clothes...

So he decides to go shoot innocent kids? Yea, ok. Either he was really messed up or something else was happening (drugs, controlled by handlers). I doubt 7 year olds made fun of how he dressed.

Even so, why doesn't every public school have a cop and/or private security on campus all day, every day? And even if they did, we see they do fuck all about it when the time comes, right? So tell me again, when we have completely open borders how we're supposed to keep guns out when we disarm the millions of law abiding citizens?

Does the left want to defund police or let them be the only ones with guns? I'm confused, what day is it and maybe I can tell you what we're supposed to think today.

 

[ClaytonB]

 

[ClaytonB]

This is being put out by the Washington Post.

 

[ClaytonB]

Yes. By not entering the school, they ensured their lives are safe while the same can't be said about the 21 people that lost their lives.

Does anyone else in this thread feel uncomfortable dog-piling on the local Texas police, along with Biden/Obama/DC/MSMBS? I'm no fan of the up-armoring of police and excessive police power but you can be sure that, in Texas, the citizens are heavily armed too. So we're not talking about a situation of NYPD or LAPD beating the snot out of unarmed citizens because they feel like letting off a little steam. We simply don't know what happened yet. Based on the information available so far, it appears that the Border Patrol (Feds) actually took Ramos down, so it appears to be a situation where the Feds pre-empted the locals. Not sure how the Feds interfering in the local police response to an ongoing crime is supposed to be the fault of the locals...

 

[Invisible Man]

Does anyone else in this thread feel uncomfortable dog-piling on the local Texas police, along with Biden/Obama/DC/MSMBS?

Not at all. The way you're framing this is ridiculous.

The fact that a federal officer did what the local police should have done but simply didn't is no excuse for them, as though somehow that federal officer prevented them from acting. Meanwhile, those police actively prevented civilians from acting to protect innocent children.

It would have been justified for those civilians to perform citizens' arrests on those cops in order to force them to stop impeding the activities of those who wanted to enter the school, up to the use of deadly force if necessary. In fact, making it possible for citizens to do that is one good way that this story illustrates the need to preserve the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Not at all. The way you're framing this is ridiculous.

The fact that a federal officer did what the local police should have done but simply didn't is no excuse for them, as though somehow that federal officer prevented them from acting. Meanwhile, those police actively prevented civilians from acting to protect innocent children.

It would have been justified for those civilians to perform citizens' arrests on those cops in order to force them to stop impeding the activities of those who wanted to enter the school, up to the use of deadly force if necessary. In fact, making it possible for citizens to do that is one good way that this story illustrates the need to preserve the right to keep and bear arms.

Citizens...all of us are citizens not "civilians".

Just picking a nit...carry on.

 

[pcosmar]

This mornings headline on Insider , Retired Federal agent may have known about plans for Buffalo shooting ahead of massacre, report says .By Bill Bostck at Business Insider

If only one could be publicly unraveled.

would anyone listen?

 

[pcosmar]

WOW..

VW was the Peoples Car.

Jeep came from General Purpose GP. It was a Military Vehicle. GP became jeep

Thanks for the Laugh.

 

[ClaytonB]

Not at all. The way you're framing this is ridiculous.

The fact that a federal officer did what the local police should have done but simply didn't is no excuse for them, as though somehow that federal officer prevented them from acting. Meanwhile, those police actively prevented civilians from acting to protect innocent children.

It would have been justified for those civilians to perform citizens' arrests on those cops in order to force them to stop impeding the activities of those who wanted to enter the school, up to the use of deadly force if necessary. In fact, making it possible for citizens to do that is one good way that this story illustrates the need to preserve the right to keep and bear arms.

OK, for the sake of argument, let's go with your wholly-imaginary situation that a heroic Federal Border Patrol officer hurried in to the school to single-handedly save the children from a rampaging Ramos who had been picking off children at a rate of one every 3 minutes for an entire hour, meanwhile, the Texas police agencies huddled outside the school, too scared to enter the school-building because they just have no balls.

The locals arriving on the scene don't know what was happening inside that building -- in fact, this is one of the reasons that we have government at all. In crisis situations, you really do need a single-voice decision-maker. The "private security contractor" model that libertarians fetishize breaks down in this kind of situation. So, suppose that each family had their own security contractor arriving on scene, each to secure and exfiltrate the child that they are contracted to protect. Ramos pops off one round and they all get into an OK Corral shootout with bullets whizzing 10 ways from Sunday. These kinds of mass confusion fratricidal events have happened countless times in history, and this is one of the reasons that human social order converges on the State.

So, even in your hallucinated version of events, the "citizens' arrest" solution doesn't work, because it is an attempt to dismantle the single-voice of government right at the very point where it is actually useful and beneficial to social order.

But let's revisit your hallucination and see if there is anything about it that is even slightly believable. The best reports we have from the local authorities is that Ramos entered the building and almost immediately shot almost all the victims, in a single classroom. That part of the shooting was over when the police arrived. Note that, if Ramos had had to change magazines a couple times while shooting, this would not have reduced the death-toll, so this silly nonsense about "assault rifles and high capacity magazines", going on since the 1990s, is absurd. Just a side note. Anyway, after making an initial attempt to enter the building and stop Ramos, they were stopped by the fact Ramos had locked himself behind a steel door and he was firing back at them. So, they evacuated children from other parts of the building, including breaking windows around the building to evacuate children that way. That's what was happening during the hallucinatory "40 minutes of thumb-twiddling". Based on what I'm reading, police were in the building the entire time, so the reports of a "stand-down" are utterly false. I'm unsure if the local police had a tactical team on hand within that time (it doesn't seem so), but the standard-procedure here would be to deploy a tactical team because Ramos was barricaded and armed, so there was no safe way for the police to enter that area of the building. The Federal Border Patrol tactical team is the team that arrived some time later and took the shooter down. What is the big crime on the part of the local police supposed to be here? That they didn't allow local parents to run up to the locked door where Ramos had barricaded himself and get shot?

 

[ClaytonB]

WOW..

VW was the Peoples Car.

Jeep came from General Purpose GP. It was a Military Vehicle. GP became jeep

Thanks for the Laugh.

I mean, if the Armalite was invented for Nazi troops, then the Jeep was designed by Hitler...

CLOWN WORLD

 

[pcosmar]

the Texas police agencies huddled outside the school, too scared to enter the school-building because they just have no balls.

They jerked around for an Hour because they were ordered to stand down,,

For maximum Media Impact.

They obeyed those orders because they have no Balls.

 

[ClaytonB]

They jerked around for an Hour because they were ordered to stand down,,

For maximum Media Impact.

They obeyed those orders because they have no Balls.

I don't believe the local Uvalde Police wanted to increase the death toll of Uvalde children to maximize media impact. That is simply not believable.

I do believe that the Feds are playing The Very Most Dangerous Game of All and literally baiting the biblical apocalypse. That I do believe.

Think twice before joining Obama/Biden/DC/MSMBS/Soros and dog-piling on the locals...

 

[LibertyEagle]

This mornings headline on Insider , Retired Federal agent may have known about plans for Buffalo shooting ahead of massacre, report says .By Bill Bostck at Business Insider

Have a link, please?

 

[LibertyEagle]

OK, for the sake of argument, let's go with your wholly-imaginary situation that a heroic Federal Border Patrol officer hurried in to the school to single-handedly save the children from a rampaging Ramos who had been picking off children at a rate of one every 3 minutes for an entire hour, meanwhile, the Texas police agencies huddled outside the school, too scared to enter the school-building because they just have no balls.

The locals arriving on the scene don't know what was happening inside that building -- in fact, this is one of the reasons that we have government at all. In crisis situations, you really do need a single-voice decision-maker. The "private security contractor" model that libertarians fetishize breaks down in this kind of situation. So, suppose that each family had their own security contractor arriving on scene, each to secure and exfiltrate the child that they are contracted to protect. Ramos pops off one round and they all get into an OK Corral shootout with bullets whizzing 10 ways from Sunday. These kinds of mass confusion fratricidal events have happened countless times in history, and this is one of the reasons that human social order converges on the State.

So, even in your hallucinated version of events, the "citizens' arrest" solution doesn't work, because it is an attempt to dismantle the single-voice of government right at the very point where it is actually useful and beneficial to social order.

But let's revisit your hallucination and see if there is anything about it that is even slightly believable. The best reports we have from the local authorities is that Ramos entered the building and almost immediately shot almost all the victims, in a single classroom. That part of the shooting was over when the police arrived. Note that, if Ramos had had to change magazines a couple times while shooting, this would not have reduced the death-toll, so this silly nonsense about "assault rifles and high capacity magazines", going on since the 1990s, is absurd. Just a side note. Anyway, after making an initial attempt to enter the building and stop Ramos, they were stopped by the fact Ramos had locked himself behind a steel door and he was firing back at them. So, they evacuated children from other parts of the building, including breaking windows around the building to evacuate children that way. That's what was happening during the hallucinatory "40 minutes of thumb-twiddling". Based on what I'm reading, police were in the building the entire time, so the reports of a "stand-down" are utterly false. I'm unsure if the local police had a tactical team on hand within that time (it doesn't seem so), but the standard-procedure here would be to deploy a tactical team because Ramos was barricaded and armed, so there was no safe way for the police to enter that area of the building. The Federal Border Patrol tactical team is the team that arrived some time later and took the shooter down. What is the big crime on the part of the local police supposed to be here? That they didn't allow local parents to run up to the locked door where Ramos had barricaded himself and get shot?

It's my understanding that there were more children in that room than just 19. So, there were still live children in there with the shooter. Do you know otherwise?

 

[pcosmar]

I don't believe the local Uvalde Police wanted to increase the death toll of Uvalde children to maximize media impact. That is simply not believable.

I do believe that the Feds are playing The Very Most Dangerous Game of All and literally baiting the biblical apocalypse. That I do believe.

Think twice before joining Obama/Biden/DC/MSMBS/Soros and dog-piling on the locals...

They Obeyed Orders..
They actively Prevented others from action..

The man who stopped the shooter Disobeyed Orders.

 

[WisconsinLiberty]

This mornings headline on Insider , Retired Federal agent may have known about plans for Buffalo shooting ahead of massacre, report says .By Bill Bostck at Business Insider

Have a link, please?

Authorities investigating if retired federal agent knew of Buffalo mass shooting plans in advance
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/...cle_bd408f18-dd39-11ec-be53-df8fdd095d6f.html

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Heard a quick bit on the news this morning about the ever changing story. They said a school resource officer was the first to respond, but drove to the back of a parking lot and detained a teacher he thought was the suspect. We'll see if that story pans out.

Meanwhile, names have been named:

Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steven McCraw said school district Police Chief Pete Arredondo made the wrong decision to not enter the classroom to encounter the gunman responsible for killing 19 children and two teachers at a Texas elementary school.

Arredondo was not among a contingent of law enforcement officials who were on hand at a Friday morning news conference.

McCraw revealed that an on-scene commander made a calculation that the event transitioned from an active shooter situation to a barricade event. McCraw added that it took more than an hour for officials to enter the room.

"Of course, it was not the right decision," McCraw said. "It was the wrong decision. Period. There's no excuse for that."

McCraw said no efforts were made to enter the room during this time.
...
https://www.wtxl.com/news/national/...over-police-response-to-texas-school-shooting

Looks like Arredondo is being thrown under the school bus. It is not clear if the "on-scene commander" was Arredondo or not.