Trump’s Immigration Ban Is Illegal

[TommyJeff]

First amendment

WHAT?
The first amendment relates to a foreign person????

 

[TommyJeff]

Yes. They can get a waver providing that they are the minority. It isn't prioritizing it is ONLY giving the chance for a waver to the minority religion. There is no option to be evaluated in second priority for a waver for the majority religion. There IS NO option to be considered if you belong to the majority religion in any order of priority.

I don't remember reading this, though I did read the whole EO, so can you please reference the section of the EO you're discussing here? I will read it and then reply. Thank you

 

[klamath]

WHAT?
The first amendment relates to a foreign person????

Yes. If congress passes and immigration law that specifically allows only one religion to immigrate it is a violation of the first amendment. If congress passes a law the specifically allows only people with one religion to visit and interact with the people of the US it is in violation of the first amendment.

 

[klamath]

I don't remember reading this, though I did read the whole EO, so can you please reference the section of the EO you're discussing here? I will read it and then reply. Thank you

(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization.

 

[timosman]

(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization.

This is clearly an exception for people who want to avoid a religious prosecution in their home country. Do you have a problem with that? You think you nailed it?

 

[klamath]

This is clearly an exception for people who want to avoid a religious prosecution in their home country. Do you have a problem with that? You think you nailed it?

Only for minority religions In case you missed the PROVIDED or do you even know how to read a legal text?

 

[timosman]

Only for minority religions In case you missed the PROVIDED or do you even know how to read a legal text?

It is hard to be a subject of a religious prosecution if you are the majority religion. Is it simple enough for you?

 

[klamath]

It is hard to be a subject of a religious prosecution if you are the majority religion. Is it simple enough for you?

In case you didn't know I spent a year in Iraq. The 20% Sunni's were absolutely prosecuting the 60% Shiites under Hussein. So Wrong.

 

[timosman]

In case you didn't know I spent a year in Iraq. The 20% Sunni's were absolutely prosecuting the 60% Shiites under Hussein. So Wrong.

No disagreement here. What's our role in all of this? Bring them all here cause they do not know how to cope with an aggressive minority and establish the rule of law?

 

[Ender]

There are no trump hotels in Iran so that equates to no central government....

LOL!

 

[klamath]

No disagreement here. What's our role in all of this? Bring them all here cause they do not know how to cope with an aggressive minority and establish the rule of law?

You were the one trying to praise Trump for making exceptions for the religious minority and then stated a minority can't be prosecuted.
My issue is the unconstitutionally of that section of Trump's EO as I stated from the beginning. That is the name of this thread.

 

[Ender]

Ender was always a SJW. The vow of poverty may do that to you.

I'm hoping that's sarcasm.

 

[TommyJeff]

Yes. If congress passes and immigration law that specifically allows only one religion to immigrate it is a violation of the first amendment. If congress passes a law the specifically allows only people with one religion to visit and interact with the people of the US it is in violation of the first amendment.

So, you are explicitly saying that the United States Constitution pertains to non citizens who are not on US Soil?
am I correctly understanding you?

 

[TommyJeff]

(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization.

Are we reading the same thing?
this says there will be priory (or triage - my word) to organize the groups of people.
And you're saying you read this to say "only" minority religions will be reviewed and possibly waivered?

 

[klamath]

Are we reading the same thing?
this says there will be priory (or triage - my word) to organize the groups of people.
And you're saying you read this to say "only" minority religions will be reviewed and possibly waivered?

I think the problem is you guys don't know how to read a legal document. When it says "provided" it is modifying the first part of paragraph (b) to only "prioritized refugee claims" IF they are an "minority religion"

 

[Superfluous Man]

Their privilege is suspended for 90 days. During the campaign Trump said we need a break. This is a break.

It sounds like your answer to my question is yes.

This is not new. Fifty or sixty years ago many countries would not allow entrance to those who even visited certain places. It was standard, and that was before terrorism became a way to wage war.

And one perfectly appropriate word that we use for such policies is "ban."

 

[Superfluous Man]

I never said that, did I?
I specifically said this EO didn't create law. Right?

But it does try to change the law without the legislative branch.

Haven't we already been over this? You even made a remark about Amash's criticism.

 

[klamath]

So, you are explicitly saying that the United States Constitution pertains to non citizens who are not on US Soil?
am I correctly understanding you?

Congress cannot pass a law giving authority to the president to exclude people based on religion. They can broadly exclude people but NOT narrowing it down by religion. That is giving the federal government the power to favorably, Only allow immigrants of a certain religion. It is especially true at that time when the country was taking in huge numbers of people. If congress was not limited the dominant religion could have forced congress to exclude all religions they didn't like, thereby limiting the free exercise thereof.

 

[TommyJeff]

I think the problem is you guys don't know how to read a legal document. When it says "provided" it is modifying the first part of paragraph (b) to only "prioritized refugee claims" IF they are an "minority religion"

With your legal background can you explain how modifying paragraph (b) excludes the majority religion?
im not a lawyer though I've read many legal documents. This says a minority religion moves to the top of the list. It does not say the majority religion is removed from the list.
If I missed something please quote it for me.

 

[klamath]

With your legal background can you explain how modifying paragraph (b) excludes the majority religion?
im not a lawyer though I've read many legal documents. This says a minority religion moves to the top of the list. It does not say the majority religion is removed from the list.
If I missed something please quote it for me.

When it says "provided" that means the prioritized list will only be made from the minority religion applicants. The SOS and SHS will make exceptions on a "basis of religious-based persecution" ONLY if the persons are from a religious minority in that country. There is NO other way to read that. The majority religion of that country will NOT be considered for exceptions, period.