Trump’s Immigration Ban Is Illegal

[Superfluous Man]

No it is not.

You might want to do some research before you embarrass yourself again.

Seriously?

How do you figure?

 

[Superfluous Man]

It's not a ban, whatever anyone calls it. Do some homework. Read the actual order. It's a 90 day suspension of admission of people holding visas from seven different countries.

So, people who hold visas from one of those countries are banned from entering the USA for 90 days.

Is that right?

 

[TommyJeff]

Because Trump could stop it all now, if he wanted to- but it looks like that will not happen.

we don't know that he isn't stopping it. I assume he isn't, like you, but if he were to pull out he would do it slowly and quietly and not announce a date as was done in the past.

Assuming you're right and he isn't stopping the wars, I don't think he's stopping them either, I still don't understand how continued wars make this specific order, illegal. Would you explain?

 

[klamath]

This is where it is unconstitutional.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

From Trump's EO.

(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality.

The constitution does not apply to foreigners but the president is breaking the first amendment by making it an executive order specifically mentioning "Minority Religion". The Sunni's were by far the minority religion in Iraq but that didn't stop them from persecuting and slaughtering by the thousands the (60%) Shiites.

 

[TommyJeff]

Yes. Follow the link to his Facebook post where he lays it out, in detail. Follow the links.

Also, it doesn't matter what Obama did or didn't do when talking about what Trump is doing. That your crazy third cousin was a rapist doesn't justify you being one.

Thank you, I will follow the links.

Also I didn't point out specifically what "Obama did or didn't do", my question was asking what Amash did or didn't do in his very recent past when faced with a similar situation. It doesn't change how we view this event but as this is one of the only areas where Amash and I have disagreed, I'd like to see consistency relating to his unconditional claim

 

[TommyJeff]

This is where it is unconstitutional.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

Trump isn't a part of congress. And this wasn't a law
From Trump's EO.


The constitution does not apply to foreigners(correct) but the president is breaking the first amendment by making it an executive order specifically mentioning "Minority Religion". The Sunni's were by far the minority religion in Iraq but that didn't stop them from persecuting and slaughtering thousands of Shiites.

where in the EO is there a law opposing a specific religion? Congress (maybe unconstitutionally) authorizes refugees to come to the USA by claiming religious persecution. This EO doesn't change that, it directs the priority to a minority religion. One may assume that it's more difficult to claim religious persecution when the person practices the same religion as the majority of a country. But those are not specifically stated so we can't know why the EO directs the priority list in this way. Blame congress if you'd like but this EO doesn't make a law outlawing a religious person from immigrating.

See red above

 

[fedupinmo]

The General Welfare clause too.

There is no General Welfare grant of power in the Constitution. It is a declaratory clause on the possible reasons for <s>theft</s> taxation.

 

[TommyJeff]

Yes. Follow the link to his Facebook post where he lays it out, in detail. Follow the links.

Also, it doesn't matter what Obama did or didn't do when talking about what Trump is doing. That your crazy third cousin was a rapist doesn't justify you being one.

After reading his Facebook page I still don't see it. I see no part of this EO which rewrites law. If Amash was making the case that congressional law in the past violate Artivle 1 section 8 by offering non-uniform naturalization, I'd agree with him. But he's doing no such thing and I fail to see how this EO is changing law rather than explaining how a law will be carried out.
Maybe you can do a better job explaining it to me. I'm all ears.

 

[euphemia]

So, people who hold visas from one of those countries are banned from entering the USA for 90 days.

Is that right?

Their privilege is suspended for 90 days. During the campaign Trump said we need a break. This is a break.

This is not new. Fifty or sixty years ago many countries would not allow entrance to those who even visited certain places. It was standard, and that was before terrorism became a way to wage war.

 

[fedupinmo]

That is 100% correct.

In 1798 fedgov adopted an immigration Law.

James Madison and Thomas Jefferson reminded Congress that it had NO AUTHORITY TO INTERDICT AND DEPORT. THAT THE STATES RETAINED THE RIGHT TO CONTROL IMMIGRATION. The "Law" was allowed to expire in 1800. We had no federal immigration law for 89 years. In the late 1800's the Chinese insisted they wanted to work in the California Gold Mines . Congress found that the Chinese decision to compete against "our people" was an emergency. In cases of emergencies fedgov is allowed to , I guess, USURP.

Please see the Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions.


.

.

The Constitution specifically prohibited the fedgoob from interfering with immigration until 1808, other than taxing each one ten bucks.

Article I, Section 9, clause 1:
The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.


Now throw in Article IV, Section 4 and it isn't pre-1808 any longer... illegal migration into this country is Invasion...

 

[fedupinmo]

Sorry, wrong button.

 

[klamath]

See red above

OK I get it. Since the president isn't congress he can issue executive orders against specific religions. Muslim Obama should have just made an executive order banning the Christians, because after all it only applies to CONGRESS. Maybe it has something to do with the fact the executive department was NEVER meant to make laws!
Get real. It was the Ghouls sloppy attempt to make an exception for Christians. The Majority religions are well documented to be Muslim in those countries, so when it excepts the majority religion from appeals it means Muslim.

 

[euphemia]

Obama pretty much did issue orders against Christians. They were the ones denied entrance, even though they were being burned out of homes and churches, or just slaughtered outright.

 

[klamath]

dup

 

[klamath]

Obama pretty much did issue orders against Christians. They were the ones denied entrance, even though they were being burned out of homes and churches, or just slaughtered outright.

Maybe he did maybe he didn't but cite your sources on how he did this? I am only on this forum because I am absolutely fed up by the fake news and undocumented statements on FB.

 

[TommyJeff]

OK I get it. Since the president isn't congress he can issue executive orders against specific religions.
You quoted part of the constitution which doesn't pertain to the executive.
Also I never said, nor does this EO make a law, infringing on a specific religion. You may prove me wrong and tell me exactly where the 'law' is found in this EO and exactly which religion did the EO single out?

Muslim Obama should have just made an executive order banning the Christians, because after all it only applies to CONGRESS.
only congrsss can make law. The executive branch is in violation for making any law. Again, you quoted the wrong part of the constitution. If Obama made a law after leaving the senate, he violated the constitution, but not because of the first amendment.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact the executive department was NEVER meant to make laws! Exactly!!!
Get real. It was the Ghouls sloppy attempt to make an exception for Christians. The Majority religions are well documented to be Muslim in those countries, so when it excepts the majority religion from appeals it means Muslim. Actually Indonesia has the largest population of Muslims. And there are dozens of other nations who's majority religious belief is Muslim. If you like to get real, can you explain why they aren't on this list?

Still in red. Still waiting to see proof of either your law claim or religious ban claim.

Id also like to add that the constitution offers zero protection to non citizens outside the USA boarders and this EO only talks about non citizen prior to entering inside the boarder. How can you relate the first amendment to them?

 

[TommyJeff]

Maybe he did maybe he didn't but cite your sources on how he did this? I am only on this forum because I am absolutely fed up by the fake news and undocumented statements on FB.

It's unfortunate how the mainstream media is pushing the fake news and undocumented statements too.

Nice having you on the forum.

 

[klamath]

Still in red. Still waiting to see proof of either your law claim or religious ban claim.

Id also like to add that the constitution offers zero protection to non citizens outside the USA boarders and this EO only talks about non citizen prior to entering inside the boarder. How can you relate the first amendment to them?

The mention of proportions of religions in the executive order makes it about religion in those 7 counties. Only one religion would NOT be giving exceptions and that is the muslims. But if you want to expand it out to other countries, a good question would be why aren't the Saudis, Egyptians on the list? That is where the terrorists came from. There is swamp gas wafting all over those exceptions.
An EO is an attempt to circumvent laws passed by congress. There IS no law passed that give the president authority to issue an EO allowing people into, or barring people into this country based on minority or majority religion and if there is Congress did NOT have the authority to pass it. A President trying to favor certain religions entry into the country, is unconstitutional.

 

[klamath]

It's unfortunate how the mainstream media is pushing the fake news and undocumented statements too.

Nice having you on the forum.

There is lot's of non main stream media pushing fake news as well and a lot of people pushing known false statements.

 

[euphemia]

Those seven nations do not have recognized central governments, so we don't really have any way to verify who's coming. The other nations do. There are reasons that have nothing to do with racism.

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