This movement needs to be more tolerant...

[IRO-bot]

Ron Paul is a good man and he has good ideas and understandin like few do and points of view but he is not GOD...

I have not ignored the ONE line of logical reasoning you offer. I just think there is more to it.

I am talking to people one on one which wins people over better thean name calling. I am bulk buying the freedom to fascism dvd and distributing them...

I'm not presenting a "false" choice. One of these two ARE going to be elected THIS TIME. The choice might be somewhat contrived.. but it is not false. One of these will be elected and if you disagree talk to m in 60 days...

We all know it is either Obama or McCain. Nobody is disputing that. We, through logic and facts, have shown that they are both essentially the same in regards to liberty and freedom. That is why they are one in the same and it doesn't matter. That is why "we" are voting third party. The third party candidates agree on 4 critical points. Points that are the foundation of this movement.

Let me state those four points in case you haven't heard them.


Foreign Policy: The Iraq War must end as quickly as possible with removal of all our soldiers from the region. We must initiate the return of our soldiers from around the world, including Korea, Japan, Europe and the entire Middle East. We must cease the war propaganda, threats of a blockade and plans for attacks on Iran, nor should we re-ignite the cold war with Russia over Georgia. We must be willing to talk to all countries and offer friendship and trade and travel to all who are willing. We must take off the table the threat of a nuclear first strike against all nations.

Privacy: We must protect the privacy and civil liberties of all persons under US jurisdiction. We must repeal or radically change the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and the FISA legislation. We must reject the notion and practice of torture, eliminations of habeas corpus, secret tribunals, and secret prisons. We must deny immunity for corporations that spy willingly on the people for the benefit of the government. We must reject the unitary presidency, the illegal use of signing statements and excessive use of executive orders.

The National Debt: We believe that there should be no increase in the national debt. The burden of debt placed on the next generation is unjust and already threatening our economy and the value of our dollar. We must pay our bills as we go along and not unfairly place this burden on a future generation.

The Federal Reserve: We seek a thorough investigation, evaluation and audit of the Federal Reserve System and its cozy relationships with the banking, corporate, and other financial institutions. The arbitrary power to create money and credit out of thin air behind closed doors for the benefit of commercial interests must be ended. There should be no taxpayer bailouts of corporations and no corporate subsidies. Corporations should be aggressively prosecuted for their crimes and frauds.



Neither Obama nor McCain agree on those points. Therefore in defense of liberty and freedom they are identical.

 

[nbhadja]

Well for me, at this point I am voting for the lesser of two evils..

I know, I know... I have read all the arguments against that but I live in the real world and for THIS election either McCain or Obama is going to be elected.

Maybe by next election we will have grown large enough to make a dfference in the outcome but in reality today we are not.
So therefore I must support McAin/Palin

Sorry if that is offensive to anyone BUT I am for Liberty too... Mine!

If you live in the real world you should know that McCain and Obama are the same.

What would your opinion be of me if I voted for Hitler in the early 30s because "he was the only one with a chance to win"?

 

[EndTheFed]

You are distorting my words. I did not call you a buffoon.

Reread the post, I am not being patronizing to you.

Here's an example that will boil it down to you further. In the 15ht century, most cartographers still thought the world was flat. Once you had Copernicus and Columbus show evidence otherwise, people who still contended that the world was flat were, well buffoons.

In the course of defending your opinions, one must show their reasons why they have that opinions. Those reasons are what are debated. When they are successfully defended, then your opinions are validated. When they are debunked, then rational human beings change their opinions. Buffoons do not.

You would only be a buffoon, if you conceded that the reasons for your opinions are invalid yet you still hold on to them. Is that what you are telling the forums?

No at this point you can prove beyond a "resonable" doubt that the earth is round.

The things we are discussing are not as clear cut an you dont have all the answers I have discussed facts but in theend you FORM an opinion.. you have been showing the opinions you have formed.

In Quantum physics the "laws" dont work exactly as they do in macro physics.. or at least as far as we know so far. I don't have all the answers... if you do.. Please publish the meaning of life so I can learn...

 

[nbhadja]

Thanks for your tolerance and giving me my liberty....

He can say whatever he wants, plus its the truth.

Change your name to "keep the fed" because its not fooling anyone.

 

[ARealConservative]

It's been a very painful process, but I agree with Kludge, we are getting there...

We still got the brainless troggies, like Conza88 and Truth Warrior, but I've made myself a large enough target that the generally will ignore their usual ones.

I honestly feel like I have been more tolerant of you then you have been of me.

In fact when we first started to get to know each other, you treated me like an Evan simply based on my login name.

 

[IRO-bot]

I honestly feel like I have been more tolerant of you then you have been of me.

In fact when we first started to get to know each other, you treated me like an Evan simply based on my login name.

What's wrong with an "Evan"?

 

[EndTheFed]

We all know it is either Obama or McCain. Nobody is disputing that. We, through logic and facts, have shown that they are both essentially the same in regards to liberty and freedom. That is why they are one in the same and it doesn't matter. That is why "we" are voting third party. The third party candidates agree on 4 critical points. Points that are the foundation of this movement.

Let me state those four points in case you haven't heard them.


Foreign Policy: The Iraq War must end as quickly as possible with removal of all our soldiers from the region. We must initiate the return of our soldiers from around the world, including Korea, Japan, Europe and the entire Middle East. We must cease the war propaganda, threats of a blockade and plans for attacks on Iran, nor should we re-ignite the cold war with Russia over Georgia. We must be willing to talk to all countries and offer friendship and trade and travel to all who are willing. We must take off the table the threat of a nuclear first strike against all nations.

Privacy: We must protect the privacy and civil liberties of all persons under US jurisdiction. We must repeal or radically change the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and the FISA legislation. We must reject the notion and practice of torture, eliminations of habeas corpus, secret tribunals, and secret prisons. We must deny immunity for corporations that spy willingly on the people for the benefit of the government. We must reject the unitary presidency, the illegal use of signing statements and excessive use of executive orders.

The National Debt: We believe that there should be no increase in the national debt. The burden of debt placed on the next generation is unjust and already threatening our economy and the value of our dollar. We must pay our bills as we go along and not unfairly place this burden on a future generation.

The Federal Reserve: We seek a thorough investigation, evaluation and audit of the Federal Reserve System and its cozy relationships with the banking, corporate, and other financial institutions. The arbitrary power to create money and credit out of thin air behind closed doors for the benefit of commercial interests must be ended. There should be no taxpayer bailouts of corporations and no corporate subsidies. Corporations should be aggressively prosecuted for their crimes and frauds.



Neither Obama nor McCain agree on those points. Therefore in defense of liberty and freedom they are identical.

This is my point exactly... This list is YOUR opinion of what is important... (don't get me wrong, they are important to me) although I am not as heavy on the war as the others BUT each person will have their "imp[ortant" list.. One ofmine as statedbefoe is the Supreme court which is ALSO important to ALL of these issues.

 

[EndTheFed]

If you live in the real world you should know that McCain and Obama are the same.

What would your opinion be of me if I voted for Hitler in the early 30s because "he was the only one with a chance to win"?

This is a rediculous argument with NO meaning...

 

[mrkurtz]

Ron Paul is a good man and he has good ideas and understandin like few do and points of view but he is not GOD...

No one has claimed he is GOD. Not one person. This isn't about Ron Paul. This is about the idea that the Constitution is a worthwhile document, and that a sound foreign, currency, and economic policy is Constitutional.

I have not ignored the ONE line of logical reasoning you offer. I just think there is more to it. I am talking to people one on one which wins people over better thean name calling. I am bulk buying the freedom to fascism dvd and distributing them...

When you say you "think there is more to it", then please put it out there. Present your line of reasoning and evidence behind it. You know, pull back the curtain that shows the Wizard of Oz is just a man; you can do it.

I'm not presenting a "false" choice. One of these to ARE going to be elected THIS TIME. The choice might be somewhat contrived.. but it is not false. One of these will be elected and if you disagree talk to m in 60 days...

You are missing the point. It's your responsibility to uphold the constitution; as a US citizen that is your responsibility. Hence, you have a choice, you can be a leader and uphold that responsibility, or choose the illogical route and support the unconsitutional candidates. By voting for any candidate, you are SUPPORTING that person's policy. So by voting McCain you are voting against the Campaign for Liberty.

And again, this is your right. No one disputes that. And until you provide evidence and a logic train, you are unlikely to convert rational people to vote for McCain.

 

[IRO-bot]

This is my point exactly... This list is YOUR opinion of what is important... (don't get me wrong, they are important to me) although I am not as heavy on the war as the others BUT each person will have their "imp[ortant" list.. One ofmine as statedbefoe is the Supreme court which is ALSO important to ALL of these issues.

It makes clear sense now.

The reason "we" (voluntarily btw) believe in these things is simple. This is what will make us free again.

I think you don't understand the freedom message.

 

[mrkurtz]

This is my point exactly... This list is YOUR opinion of what is important... (don't get me wrong, they are important to me) although I am not as heavy on the war as the others BUT each person will have their "imp[ortant" list.. One ofmine as statedbefoe is the Supreme court which is ALSO important to ALL of these issues.

This is what is generally important to the campaign for liberty. If you don't share them... that's fine.

Again, please provide references to your Supreme Court claim... and to make it a more compelling argument on your behalf, try to logically connect the evidence you present to some of the principles to the C4L.

You'll be very successful in converting people if you do!

 

[ARealConservative]

What's wrong with an "Evan"?

did my email say anything is wrong with being an Evan?

I prefer to not be treated as something I'm not. Fair enough?

 

[mrkurtz]

did my email say anything is wrong with being an Evan?

I prefer to not be treated as something I'm not. Fair enough?

Who's Evan?

 

[acptulsa]

EndTheFed, I really, really have doubts about your notion that McCain's SCOTUS appointments will be anything to brag about.

 

[JS4Pat]

Well for me, at this point I am voting for the lesser of two evils..

I know, I know... I have read all the arguments against that but I live in the real world and for THIS election either McCain or Obama is going to be elected.

Maybe by next election we will have grown large enough to make a dfference in the outcome but in reality today we are not.
So ther fore I must support McAin/Palin

Sorry if that is offensive to anyone BUT I am for Liberty too... Mine!

I must admit then, you're very tolerant of the status quo.

VERY TRUE!

And I'm not sure the "status quo" is an area that can afford anymore tolerance than it is alreadyreceiving.

 

[IRO-bot]

did my email say anything is wrong with being an Evan?

I prefer to not be treated as something I'm not. Fair enough?

What e-mail? I just wanted to know why you felt it was wrong to be treated like and "Evan" as if being Evan is a bad thing.

My first name is Evan so I have a vested interest in this matter.

 

[EndTheFed]

No one has claimed he is GOD. Not one person. This isn't about Ron Paul. This is about the idea that the Constitution is a worthwhile document, and that a sound foreign, currency, and economic policy is Constitutional.




When you say you "think there is more to it", then please put it out there. Present your line of reasoning and evidence behind it. You know, pull back the curtain that shows the Wizard of Oz is just a man; you can do it.



You are missing the point. It's your responsibility to uphold the constitution; as a US citizen that is your responsibility. Hence, you have a choice, you can be a leader and uphold that responsibility, or choose the illogical route and support the unconsitutional candidates. By voting for any candidate, you are SUPPORTING that person's policy. So by voting McCain you are voting against the Campaign for Liberty.

And again, this is your right. No one disputes that. And until you provide evidence and a logic train, you are unlikely to convert rational people to vote for McCain.

Wizard of Oz comments are un called for... Is this an illustration of your logicall reasoning?

More to it...

As stated before one of my biggest reasons for voting this way is the supreme court which is important to ALL the issues especially constitutional issues. And Obama will take us further down the road tat will be detrimental to the cause. I would rather be some down (McCain) the road than a lot further (Obama) down that road..

I'm doing all I can to promote the constitution. I do not see the voting for McCain and the the Dampaign for Liberty as being mutually exclusive.. If you do you have the right...

 

[EndTheFed]

It makes clear sense now.

The reason "we" (voluntarily btw) believe in these things is simple. This is what will make us free again.

I think you don't understand the freedom message.

Makes no sense...

 

[kahless]

The beliefs of the progressive left rose to power through intolerance in our entertainment industry and the news media. They have a candidate that maybe our next president, they control the Democrat party and moderate Republicans.

The Conservatives-Republicans consistently lose ground through appeasement and compromise. McCain has run his campaign on reaching out to Democrats and even placing them in his cabinet should he be elected.

Regardless of history of American politics some then believe that this movement needs to be more "tolerant". The movement is destined to fail if we compromise our values.

 

[ARealConservative]

What e-mail? I just wanted to know why you felt it was wrong to be treated like and "Evan" as if being Evan is a bad thing.

My first name is Evan so I have a vested interest in this matter.

an Evan is short for an Evangelical Christian. It is a stereotyping of the type of Christians that believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible.