They are dogging RP hard

[DarcPrynce]

I disagree. I think that foreign policy is the one area where any disagreement simply isn't tolerated by the neoconservatives.

And here you've been so tolerant of THEIR views...

 

[angelatc]

The word neocon is derogatory term used mostly by leftists as a means of demeaning all conservatives,....

It isn't a derogatory term. It is a specific descriptor of a political philosophy.

From Wikipedia: Its key distinction is in international affairs, where it espouses an interventionist approach that seeks to defend what neo-conservatives deem as national interests. In addition, unlike traditional conservatives, neoconservatives are comfortable with a minimally-bureaucratic welfare state; and, while generally supportive of free markets, they are willing to interfere for overriding social purposes.[1]

The term neoconservative was originally used as a criticism against liberals who had "moved to the right".[2][3] Michael Harrington, a democratic socialist, coined the usage of neoconservative in a 1973 Dissent magazine article concerning welfare policy.[4] According to E. J. Dionne, the nascent neoconservatives were driven by "the notion that liberalism" had failed and "no longer knew what it was talking about."[5]

The first major neoconservative to embrace the term, and considered its founder, is Irving Kristol, (father of William Kristol, who founded the neoconservative Project for the New American Century), and wrote of his neoconservative views in the 1979 article "Confessions of a True, Self-Confessed 'Neoconservative.'"[2]

 

[angelatc]

And here you've been so tolerant of THEIR views...

I used to be a neoconservative. It wasn't the war that lost me, btw, it was amnesty.

What is the evidence of this intolerence of which you speak?

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Greetings and Salutations,

There is a common misconception among many paleoconservatives that those in the Republican party who support - at least in theory, if not in current practice - the policy of preemptive military engagement in the Middle East, are largely accepting of most of the policies embraced by the current Republican party leadership. This is entirely untrue, and in my estimation, downright silly. As a representative (of sorts) of the Republican Revolution network on this fine forum, I can assure you all that the vast majority of those Chimpsy conservatives with which I have had the pleasure to become acquainted over the years are anything but pleased with the direction of the Republican hierarchy... especially as that direction pertains to government spending, border security, free market autonomy and the cancer of political correctness.

I would also like to add that while there are many devout Christians within the Chimpsy movement at this time, few of them seriously believe that one's religious perspective should overshadow one's obligation as an American to adhere to the foundational principles of our Constitution in matters of governmental policy. That is to say that while religion and politics can never be severed entirely in the minds of leaders - nor, in my opinion, should they be - one's faith is only a guiding factor in one's decision-making process, and should never nullify the necessity for sound Constitutional prerequisits in these respects.

Clearly there remains a deep divide between the aforementioned Chimpsy conservatives (or Chimpsyites, as we like to be called) and Ron Paul-supporting paleoconservatives (or Paulies, as we oft' refer to you). This chasm lies between those of you who adhere to a strict non-interventionist view relative to American foreign relations, and the rest of us who think you folks are entirely full of shit. This gulf I fear will not be bridged anytime soon, but hey, my own sister has never really forgiven me completely for calling her an insufferable bitch back in 1973, and we still manage not to throw food at each other during Thanksgiving festivities, so I figure there's always hope for reconciliation.

By the way, we Chimpsyites take great offense to being called neocons, and would rather our Paulie conterparts just kick us squarely in the nuts instead. In our collective estimation, the word neocon is a derogatory term used mostly by leftists as a means of demeaning all conservatives, regardless of their foreign policy views, and if future positive relations between our two camps is to ever become a reality, I would strongly urge everyone who reads this post to refrain from referring to me or my Chimpsyite brethren as such.

Oh, and just in case you were wondering, we're also not Zionists merely because we have decided to side with Israel over a pack of hate-filled, notoriously anti-Semitic, and completely despicable Arabs, who call themselves Palestinians and single-mindedly seek the ultimate destruction of the only pre-Iraq War democracy in the Middle East. If giving billions of dollars in aid to that tiny Republic is something that you believe America shouldn't do, then I say FAIR ENOUGH, but please do not pretend that the Israelis and the "Palestinians" are somehow moral equals in this fight. The "Palestinians" wouldn't recognize moral decency if the concept were water and they were dying of thirst.

But then, that's just my opinion. I welcome yours.

Most sincerely,

Edward - your humble Chimpsy ambassador

Well Ed, I welcome your post and look forward to much discussion with you as Im sure alot of us do.
As for the word neoconservative, I wont use it if it offends you, but do know that most of us understand that the liberals who came over to the right gave that name to themselves, but I defer...

Im sure with the exception of an interventionist foreign policy we agree on much. Im sure you guys want small govt, balanced budgets, sound money, and people to take personal responsibility for their actions.

Nobody ever agrees 100% on political stuff, but you and we are probably around 80%... I welcome discourse with you and your group.. and if your group doesnt want us over there, perhaps there are some members (like you) who would be willing to come here and enjoy some political discussion??

Mike

 

[rockandrollsouls]

Wow... the concepts of humorlessness and arrogance are certainly not lost on you, are they?

No, just a response to your "holier than thou" attitude. Would you care to address my other post?

 

[DarcPrynce]

DarcPrynce,

That's "Paulians" to you, pal. Harumph! Okay, got that out.

Good for you.

On a very serious note, let's say both sides -- Israel and the Palestinians -- are killing each other equally. (The news I've heard does not put the fatalaties nor the victims' ages in proximity, but let's say that for the sake of argument.) Who is forcing us to side with either of the killers?

Nobody is forcing me to do shit... it's called free will, and I practice it as often as possible.

Are you prolife?

No, I'm pro human justice whenever feasible... life is what I have and what I hope all good people retain for as long as they deserve it.

I am. That means I'm against the taking of all innocent life.

So am I, but that doesn't mean I won't kill one innocent person in order to save a thousand more.

Would an abortionist who commits fewer abortions that the one down the street be okay?

Not to me but then, in my opinion, abortion undertaken for no defensible reason is cold-blooded homicide.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

No, just a response to your "holier than thou" attitude. Would you care to address my other post?

Why dont you give the guy a break.. He was very gracious and non confrontational. Who knows.. he could be biblvr777 with a new haircut.. But he is being civil and there is an opportunity for good exchange here me thinks.

 

[LittleLightShining]

What frustrates me the most about the entire dialogue-- and this is by no means an isolated incident-- is that people who call themselves true conservatives who disagree with Ron Paul specifically about foreign policy dismiss him and his supporters as kooks and liberals without acknowledging everything else the man stands for.

By refusing to acknowledge the commonalities in what we actually do agree on the portion of the GOP represented by the Chimps have shown that they are not really willing at all to revolutionize the party, rather they seek to maintain the status quo of empire at all costs.

It makes me sad for the party, it really does.

 

[amonasro]

Darc, if the term "Neoconservative" is such a derogatory term, why is the current political platform of the mainstream GOP so closely tied with its views and beliefs? Are you familiar with Bill Kristol and his influence on the party? The entire Bush Administration adheres to their values, as did McCain, and the next GOP nominee will also. Call us kooks and loons, but we've been involved with the party at local and state levels and have encountered this entrenched opposition personally. Are you aware what they did to Ron Paul in Nevada and Louisiana?

How do you justify taking offense to the term that helped to shape the current GOP platform? If you disagree with Neoconservative views why are you still involved with and defending the GOP?

 

[DarcPrynce]

No, just a response to your "holier than thou" attitude. Would you care to address my other post?

Sure! Uh... you had another post?

By the way... check this tune out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Yw96LZT-8&feature=channel_page

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Sure! Uh... you had another post?

By the way... check this tune out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Yw96LZT-8&feature=channel_page

We're gonna have to teach you how to rick roll someone around here..

I hate being rick rolled.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Sure! Uh... you had another post?

...

I believe he was referring to this

Do you have any evidence to support your views? There are entire books, studies, and experiments on the concept of blow-back, which is the basis for my non-interventionist view. The actions we take always come back to bite us. Regardless, even if you DO support interventionism, our Constitution pretty much prohibits it.

Do you realize we've worked alongside those we now call terrorists? Did you know Israel had roots in Hamas?

 

[rockandrollsouls]

Why dont you give the guy a break.. He was very gracious and non confrontational. Who knows.. he could be biblvr777 with a new haircut.. But he is being civil and there is an opportunity for good exchange here me thinks.

I've never met anyone willing to make peace that called me "full of shit."

 

[DarcPrynce]

Do you have any evidence to support your views?

Yes... yes I do.

There are entire books, studies, and experiments on the concept of blow-back, which is the basis for my non-interventionist view. The actions we take always come back to bite us.

Well then, we'd better have our shit together next time, don't you think?

Regardless, even if you DO support interventionism, our Constitution pretty much prohibits it.

No it doesn't.

Do you realize we've worked alongside those we now call terrorists?

Perhaps you have, but I can guarantee my fellow conservatives that I have not.

Did you know Israel had roots in Hamas?

Did you know that Hitler had roots in Judaism?

 

[ghengis86]

Good for you.



Nobody is forcing me to do shit... it's called free will, and I practice it as often as possible.



No, I'm pro human justice whenever feasible... life is what I have and what I hope all good people retain for as long as they deserve it.



So am I, but that doesn't mean I won't kill one innocent person in order to save a thousand more.




Not to me but then, in my opinion, abortion undertaken for no defensible reason is cold-blooded homicide.

i'm suprised at your honesty; kudos to you sir. but being honest and being logical are not one in the same

 

[ghengis86]

Yes... yes I do.



Well then, we'd better have our shit together next time, don't you think?



No it doesn't.



Perhaps you have, but I can guarantee my fellow conservatives that I have not.



Did you know that Hitler had roots in Judaism?

Israel's government founded Hamas as a rival to Fatah. Hitler didn't fund Judaism

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

...

Did you know that Hitler had roots in Judaism?

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Perhaps, instead of asking a bunch of varied questions to Edward, its better if we ask him what problems his side has with Ron Paul's platform so to speak?

This way we can narrow it down and get right to the point???

 

[angelatc]

I've never met anyone willing to make peace that called me "full of shit."

You haven't been in politics long.

 

[amonasro]

I think Darc's a Ron Paul fan but doesn't know it yet.