Tennessee just became the first state that will jail women for their pregnancy outcomes

[tod evans]

How, exactly, don't they? If you smoke, do drugs or drink alcohol while pregnant, and as a direct result the baby is born deformed, has brain damage, dies or whatever, how in the hell does that not "equate to harm"?

90+% of newborns who were exposed to smoking, drugs and booze were not born damaged, simply look at history...

Legislation of this type is using social programming to grow government and its authority...

Refer to "It's better for 100 guilty men to go free than to imprison 1 innocent one"... (Relying on my poor ol' memory..)

 

[donnay]

90+% of newborns who were exposed to smoking, drugs and booze were not born damaged, simply look at history...

Legislation of this type is using social programming to grow government and its authority...

Refer to "It's better for 100 guilty men to go free than to imprison 1 innocent one"... (Relying on my poor ol' memory..)

I owe you some +rep. Well said. Social programming is key!

 

[tod evans]

I owe you some +rep. Well said. Social programming is key!

My (our) generation was gestated in amphetamine powered, alcohol soaked and smoke infused wombs, we were given Paregoric for diarrhea and a teaspoon of whiskey in our bottles to sleep...

 

[Nirvikalpa]

What's wrong with that? If a woman is using drugs while pregnant then she is obviously harming her child.

Women are given opiods, benzo's, and ketamine to induce labor. Thiopental is even given in some cases.

 

[donnay]

My (our) generation was gestated in amphetamine powered, alcohol soaked and smoke infused wombs, we were given Paregoric for diarrhea and a teaspoon of whiskey in our bottles to sleep...

Exactly! The more that they can create problems the more control they have.

 

[angelatc]

Morphine is illegal if it is obtained or used outside the medical industrial complex.

Just like too many Oxycontin scripts...

If your physician prescribes it, it isn't illegal. This is not complicated, or even nuanced.

 

[angelatc]

90+% of newborns who were exposed to smoking, drugs and booze were not born damaged, simply look at history...

Legislation of this type is using social programming to grow government and its authority...

Refer to "It's better for 100 guilty men to go free than to imprison 1 innocent one"... (Relying on my poor ol' memory..)

I think it's a numbers game - the odds of "X" happening increase if the mother does "Y." This is another law that punishes people because something bad MIGHT happen. Like DUI, for example.

 

[Thor]

If your physician prescribes it, it isn't illegal. This is not complicated, or even nuanced.

Oh, so as long as it is blessed by the medical industrial complex, you are OK.... even if it causes damage. Gotcha.

 

[tod evans]

I think it's a numbers game - the odds of "X" happening increase if the mother does "Y." This is another law that punishes people because something bad MIGHT happen. Like DUI, for example.

The numbers game really becomes interesting when governments agents become involved....

I'll bet there's a higher percentage of negative outcomes from interaction with prosecutors than with drugs....

 

[angelatc]

Oh, so as long as it is blessed by the medical industrial complex, you are OK.... even if it causes damage. Gotcha.

Apparently not. I didn't say I was ok with it. Just the opposite, actually.

 

[eduardo89]

"Drugs" don't equate to harm...

Yes they do. Introducing heroin or cocaine into a child's blood stream certainly is harm.

 

[PierzStyx]

How do you know that they are not getting treatment while in jail?

I wouldn't call destroying families treatment. You can't force a junkie to quit. You can prevent them from getting drugs and dry them out, but unless they want to be free from drugs they'll just go right back to it.

And none of this addresses the fact that you're destroying a family here. The child will inevitably become a ward of the state, feeding the beast even more.

 

[tod evans]

Yes they do. Introducing heroin or cocaine into a child's blood stream certainly is harm.

This legislation being discussed didn't specify "heroin or cocaine" did it?

If you'd like to start another thread discussing the actual "harm" done to a gestating fetus when a particular "drug" is present in a certain quantity in the mothers blood I'll be happy to contribute..

Suffice it to say I disagree with your position unless you want to specify degree of "harm"....


[edit]

A link to an article from Merck

http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/wo...ring_pregnancy/drug_use_during_pregnancy.html

 

[limequat]

Marijuana is illegal. Marijuana is harmless.

With this new law could potentially any birth defect be blamed on marijuana?
How do you prove drug use? How do you prove that drug caused the birth defect?
Is eyewitness testimony admissible?

How long after birth can a defect be diagnosed? Do neurological disorders count? Like ADD and Asbergers?

How does it benefit the baby to lock up the mother?

 

[eduardo89]

Marijuana is illegal. Marijuana is harmless.

No, it isn't.

 

[limequat]

You're right. Some states have decriminalized it.

 

[angelatc]

Yes they do. Introducing heroin or cocaine into a child's blood stream certainly is harm.

I am not sure the science is on your side here.

 

[eduardo89]

I am not sure the science is on your side here.

You seriously do not believe that a pregnant woman doing cocaine or heroin harms her unborn child?

 

[tod evans]

No, it isn't.

Don't believe everything you see on the TV...

 

[eduardo89]

Don't believe everything you see on the TV...

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