Santorum on Bruce Jenner: ‘If He Says He’s Woman, Then He’s a Woman’

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Sola_Fide said:
I like a lot of what you said here. I am more amillenial because of 1st Timothy 3. But I don't think that Reconstructionists rightly divide grace and law. I was a Reconstructionist for many years.
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Amillennialism is a fairly common viewpoint in Lutheran circles, and it has a fair number of supporters in the Reformed Churches. I tend to view church history as a Historicist rather than a Idealist, so certain aspects of John's prophecy take on a very specific connotation. David Steele's pamphlet "The Two Witnesses" pretty much lays out the original Covenater position on the Eschaton in a very specific matter, so I think it would be better if I just offer a link to it for anyone curious about it rather than flooding this thread with a massive essay on my understanding of Revelation.
 
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I highly suggest watching this entire documentary.



Sports bodies such as the IOC and FIFA have an extremely difficult time telling men and women apart. It isn't political correctness, its biology, and largely what one might consider birth defects.

Women can have XY chromosomes in every cell in their body, Men can have XX.

Sometime genitalia simply fail to develop the same way as the rest of the body.

These are much more difficult issues than one might initially assume.
 
Sola_Fide said:
I like a lot of what you said here. I am more amillenial because of 1st Timothy 3. But I don't think that Reconstructionists rightly divide grace and law. I was a Reconstructionist for many years.
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I'm not actually sure what my eschatology is. Will look at 1 Timothy 3 now. Most recons are postmil as you mention. Of the "five points of reconstructionism" I accept four. The one I'm agnostic on is the postmil eschatology.

Regarding the division of grace and law, there seems to be some debate on those issues in the theonomic camp. I'd probably be more inclined to be closer to your position on those issues. I am curious precisely what areas you are disagreeing with recons on those issues. I agree that law and gospel need to be separated. Keeping the moral law (to which I include most of the civil law) is an important part of sanctification, but it doesn't save. I believe the OT laws are the most just laws ever created and should be implemented in today's societies, but doing so does not save. Salvation comes only through personal faith in Jesus Christ, and the death he died to save his people from his sins.

Sola_Fide said:
Many Reconstructionists have supported Santorum, like Douglas Wilson in the last election.
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Yeah, that's irritating. I support Rand Paul.
 
Christian Liberty said:
I'm not actually sure what my eschatology is. Will look at 1 Timothy 3 now. Most recons are postmil as you mention. Of the "five points of reconstructionism" I accept four. The one I'm agnostic on is the postmil eschatology.

Regarding the division of grace and law, there seems to be some debate on those issues in the theonomic camp. I'd probably be more inclined to be closer to your position on those issues. I am curious precisely what areas you are disagreeing with recons on those issues. I agree that law and gospel need to be separated. Keeping the moral law (to which I include most of the civil law) is an important part of sanctification, but it doesn't save. I believe the OT laws are the most just laws ever created and should be implemented in today's societies, but doing so does not save. Salvation comes only through personal faith in Jesus Christ, and the death he died to save his people from his sins.



Yeah, that's irritating. I support Rand Paul.
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It's irritating? Why? Reconstructionists are authoritarians like Santorum is. It's no accident that they support him.
 
Sola_Fide said:
It's irritating? Why? Reconstructionists are authoritarians like Santorum is. It's no accident that they support him.
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Most Reconstructionists want to limit government to the laws that are in the Old Testament (minus, of course, the ceremonial.) Most are close to if not completely non-interventionist on foreign policy, totally laissez faire, against the government spynet, against the drug war, etc. Many recons (although I'm not as comfortable saying "most" here, and I'm not really sure I'd agree myself although it would be nice) believe that theonomy should be implemented only after most of a population is converted. I guess recons are "authoritarian" compared to anarcho-capitalists. Everybody is. But they aren't really authoritarian compared to modern conservatives or liberals.

Covenanters may be a different story.
 
Sola_Fide said:
The thing is, they don't even hold up what can historically be called Calvinism. If Calvinism is what they say it is, count me out. I'll stick with the Bible.
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The more I've discussed the philosophy behind it with people, the more I really can't accept the ultra-high form of Calvinism that you do. I used to just not like it and not really have a sound theological objection, but at this point I think I have a fairly strong theological objection.

That said, you could even deny common grace outright and be a theonomist. I don't see any issue there, at least not as such
 
Christian Liberty said:
The more I've discussed the philosophy behind it with people, the more I really can't accept the ultra-high form of Calvinism that you do. I used to just not like it and not really have a sound theological objection, but at this point I think I have a fairly strong theological objection.

That said, you could even deny common grace outright and be a theonomist. I don't see any issue there, at least not as such
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Not really. Common grace is a component of the Reconstructionists philosophy of "redeeming the culture" and other such heretical nonsense. Gary North wrote a book about it called Dominion and Common Grace. "Culture" and government is not ever redeemed. People are redeemed, and when they are redeemed, they become pilgrims in a world that hates them.
 
Sola_Fide said:
Not really. Common grace is a component of the Reconstructionists philosophy of "redeeming the culture" and other such heretical nonsense. Gary North wrote a book about it called Dominion and Common Grace. "Culture" and government is not ever redeemed. People are redeemed, and when they are redeemed, they become pilgrims in a world that hates them.
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I'm not sure how any of this is actually "heretical".
 
Sola_Fide said:
You cant read that first link and say common grace isn't heresy? I'm amazed...
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I actually believe in common grace, but then, the fact that OTC calls me a heretic really, really doesn't surprise me. heck, they even call you a heretic.

Let's not overuse that word.
 
Christian Liberty said:
I actually believe in common grace, but then, the fact that OTC calls me a heretic really, really doesn't surprise me. heck, they even call you a heretic.

Let's not overuse that word.
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There are tons of critiques out there about common grace. Read the other links if you don't like otc. Common grace is neo-calvinist garbage. It's a heresy because it's Arminianism.
 
Sola_Fide said:
There are tons of critiques out there about common grace. Read the other links if you don't like otc. Common grace is neo-calvinist garbage. It's a heresy because it's Arminianism.
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I listened to the last one. I don't think there's any interpretation of Matthew 5:43-47 that really makes sense if you don't believe in common grace. Of course, God is rightly incensed at sin, and the fact that he has some level of compassion even on the perishing will not stop him from ultimately fulfilling his justice by sending these people to Hell.

You want to reject theological nuance, but its not really possible to lump everything in the same camp.

Arminianism is of much more questionable orthodoxy as compared to common grace, I don't really think Arminians are qualified as teachers, or that the majority of them are saved, however, I don't think being an Arminian automatically makes one unsaved.
 
Christian Liberty said:
I listened to the last one. I don't think there's any interpretation of Matthew 5:43-47 that really makes sense if you don't believe in common grace. Of course, God is rightly incensed at sin, and the fact that he has some level of compassion even on the perishing will not stop him from ultimately fulfilling his justice by sending these people to Hell.

You want to reject theological nuance, but its not really possible to lump everything in the same camp.

Arminianism is of much more questionable orthodoxy as compared to common grace, I don't really think Arminians are qualified as teachers, or that the majority of them are saved, however, I don't think being an Arminian automatically makes one unsaved.
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Actually, in that video is a great quote from David Engelsma that I think will open up your eyes if you understand it.
 
So there is a random religious debate raging with spats of back-handed remarks about sexuality in between.

Jenner said he is transgender, which is very different from being gay. Welcome to the 21st Century folks, where people can finally begin to be accepted for who they are as individuals, and not by the label society would like to place on them. If Frothy is coming around to the idea of acceptance--even for political reasons--why belittle him?

This in particular annoys me, like when Paul jr or senior reached across the aisle to work with Democrats and is rebuffed by the common liberal for "faking it".
 
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