Rand Paul on The Laura Ingraham Show 4/28

[idiom]

Apparently if you think America's Foreign policy may have in any way prepared the situation that caused 9/11, then you are justifying the terrorists actions.

Where do you get a population of people ready to riot and burn down their own neighbourhood? They were bussed in from communist training camps?

It takes prolonged generational abuse to create those conditions, same as it takes to breed suicide bombers.

But hey, more of the same will fix it.

I am standing in opposition to lawlessness, be it lawless police, or lawless rioters. When you have lawlessness, you have chaos. When you have chaos, you cannot have rational discussion..

So we can't leave Iraq or Afghanistan until the regions are peaceful and rational? That is exactly the Neocon talking point.

We can't talk about ending the war on drugs today, because we have to put all the blacks in prison first. Once they are in prison then they can be reasoned with.

 

[Brett85]

No, you should probably re-read their posts because they are actually comparing the looters to Muslim terrorists and the police supporters like you to neocons.

I am not supporting the police, are you reading any of my posts? I am standing in opposition to lawlessness, be it lawless police, or lawless rioters. When you have lawlessness, you have chaos. When you have chaos, you cannot have rational discussion.

Don't you know you have to pick a side? If you're against the rioters and the destruction of private property, that means that you're a "supporter" of the police.

 

[carlton]

Apparently if you think America's Foreign policy may have in any way prepared the situation that caused 9/11, then you are justifying the terrorists actions.

Where do you get a population of people ready to riot and burn down their own neighbourhood? They were bussed in from communist training camps?

It takes prolonged generational abuse to create those conditions, same as it takes to breed suicide bombers.

But hey, more of the same will fix it.



So we can't leave Iraq or Afghanistan until the regions are peaceful and rational? That is exactly the Neocon talking point.

We can't talk about ending the war on drugs today, because we have to put all the blacks in prison first. Once they are in prison then they can be reasoned with.

I think the poster who you were replying to was trying to say that being against a looter destroying private property does not mean you endorse a draconian police state. And I agree. Just because the black community feels it has a legitimate gripe does not give it carte blanche to loot, steal and pillage. These are their own community they are waging a war on, not the government and that is wrong.

One thing about what Paul said; look at the black and Asian communities. Both were looked on with contempt at the turn of the 20th century, both were institutionally oppressed... and yet the black community has problems that the asian community doesn't. Why is that? Culture. Rand is right about fathers and he's also right about what he said about the police state. Lets not forget, Idiom, that Paul has come out again and again against the militarization of our police force and laws which disproportionately affect ethnic communities. OK?

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Cops kill someone. Peaceful protests occur and none of you INCLUDING Rand Paul even bat an eye. Buildings burn and you all are OUTRAGED!

Right, because libertarians never criticize the war on drugs, the welfare state, or the other economic-growth-snuffing policies responsible for the fact that parts of Baltimore look like Berlin c. 1945.

We're all just such awful, racist hypocrites...

Maybe we should pay reparations or self-immolate?

 

[twomp]

Right, because libertarians never criticize the war on drugs, the welfare state, or the other economic-growth-snuffing policies responsible for the fact that parts of Baltimore look like Berlin c. 1945.

We're all just such awful, racist hypocrites...

Maybe we should pay reparations or self-immolate?

Really? So did Rand Paul say something about the Baltimore protests those few days BEFORE the riots started?

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Really? So did Rand Paul say something about the Baltimore protests those few days BEFORE the riots started?

He's been talking about the plight of all the inner cities for years, and proposing legislation to ameliorate those problems.

Economic Freedom Zones, reduced sentencing for non-violent crimes, reforming civil forfeiture - not to mention his entire economic program which would benefit the whole country, including all these God-forsaken places.

Perhaps you should pay closer attention.

P.S. And by the way, police corruption is small potatoes compared to the above (not that Rand isn't an opponent of it, as we all are). If no more Freddy Greys get murdered in police custody (assuming that's what happened - I have no idea), nothing will change in that city. These places are not shit because every so often somebody gets abused by the police. That's just icing on the cake.

 

[AuH20]

1. Progressives ruin Baltimore with anti-freedom policies starting in the 1960s.

2. The citizens of Baltimore regress to a near primal state fueled by heavy narcotic use and an extremely hedonistic lifestyle. The family unit destabilizes and in turn their communities crater. Pretty soon they are flagged as Public Enemy #1 as the prime criminal element in the area. The prisons fill rapidly and they are exterminating each other like the Hatfields and McCoys on a daily basis.

Now some people in this thread are insinuating that the private property owners are directly responsible for this catastrophic failure of public policy? Really? I don't even think that many store owners were even born, when the boom was dropped on Baltimore and other urban centers.

 

[AuH20]

edit

 

[hells_unicorn]

Apparently if you think America's Foreign policy may have in any way prepared the situation that caused 9/11, then you are justifying the terrorists actions.

Where do you get a population of people ready to riot and burn down their own neighbourhood? They were bussed in from communist training camps?

It takes prolonged generational abuse to create those conditions, same as it takes to breed suicide bombers.

But hey, more of the same will fix it.

So we can't leave Iraq or Afghanistan until the regions are peaceful and rational? That is exactly the Neocon talking point.

We can't talk about ending the war on drugs today, because we have to put all the blacks in prison first. Once they are in prison then they can be reasoned with.

Who do you think you are talking to Idiom? These analogies are so poor I feel like I'm talking to a 7 year old. This is within our own country, there are real people with no logical connection to whatever grievances these people have being harmed either physically or financially. You are basically laying out the very justification for the Iraq War by arguing that because person A did something wrong, the victim is free to rain hell upon persons B and C at his pleasure. We had a group of Saudis (probably with some help from Israel) infiltrate our country and kill several thousands of people, and our response has been to occupy 2 countries with little connection to the original perpetrators for over a decade because of "those rotten terrorists". Replace "terrorists" with "police" and "Afghanistan and Iraq" with "Random People and Businesses" and the analogy is so painfully accurate I can barely stand it. And spare me these stupid cliches about the War on Drugs, I'm not Bill O'Reilly, you are preaching to the choir here.

Ugh, anarchism, robbing otherwise intelligent people of needed IQ points for as long as I can remember.

 

[twomp]

He's been talking about the plight of all the inner cities for years, and proposing legislation to ameliorate those problems.

Economic Freedom Zones, reduced sentencing for non-violent crimes, reforming civil forfeiture - not to mention his entire economic program which would benefit the whole country, including all these God-forsaken places.

Perhaps you should pay closer attention.

P.S. And by the way, police corruption is small potatoes compared to the above (not that Rand isn't an opponent of it, as we all are). If no more Freddy Greys get murdered in police custody (assuming that's what happened - I have no idea), nothing will change in that city. These places are not shit because every so often somebody gets abused by the police. That's just icing on the cake.

Oh so no he didn't talked about the Baltimore PROTESTS before it turned violent? I didn't think so either. But nice try at spin though, did you learn to spin yourself or did FOX news teach you?

 

[AuH20]

Oh so no he didn't talked about the Baltimore PROTESTS before it turned violent? I didn't think so either. But nice try at spin though, did you learn to spin yourself or did FOX news teach you?

You're not actually playing the Fox News card on this forum? Jeez.

 

[twomp]

You're not actually playing the Fox News card on this forum? Jeez.

Why not? Is it because The Spin Stops Here?

 

[Crashland]

You are basically laying out the very justification for the Iraq War by arguing that because person A did something wrong, the victim is free to rain hell upon persons B and C at his pleasure. We had a group of Saudis (probably with some help from Israel) infiltrate our country and kill several thousands of people, and our response has been to occupy 2 countries with little connection to the original perpetrators for over a decade because of "those rotten terrorists". Replace "terrorists" with "police" and "Afghanistan and Iraq" with "Random People and Businesses" and the analogy is so painfully accurate I can barely stand it.

It's even smarter than that. A group of Saudis infiltrate our country and kill people, and our response is to turn on ourselves and destroy each other's property. That'll teach those Saudis! You better not violate our rights, because or else we will fight ourselves and violate each other's rights!

 

[JohnGalt1225]

Apparently if you think America's Foreign policy may have in any way prepared the situation that caused 9/11, then you are justifying the terrorists actions.

Where do you get a population of people ready to riot and burn down their own neighbourhood? They were bussed in from communist training camps?

It takes prolonged generational abuse to create those conditions, same as it takes to breed suicide bombers.

But hey, more of the same will fix it.



So we can't leave Iraq or Afghanistan until the regions are peaceful and rational? That is exactly the Neocon talking point.

We can't talk about ending the war on drugs today, because we have to put all the blacks in prison first. Once they are in prison then they can be reasoned with.

Sigh. Let me let you in on a little secret... I don't care about Iraq or Afghanistan at all. Literally don't give a shit. I care about America. I don't support our current foreign policy, but I do care about the rule of law in this country.

As it is your delusional Marxist laden rants about how private property owners and tax payers "having it coming" or insinuating they deserved it disqualifies your opinions from the realm of serious thought.

 

[idiom]

Sigh. Let me let you in on a little secret... I don't care about Iraq or Afghanistan at all. Literally don't give a shit. I care about America. I don't support our current foreign policy, but I do care about the rule of law in this country.

As it is your delusional Marxist laden rants about how private property owners and tax payers "having it coming" or insinuating they deserved it disqualifies your opinions from the realm of serious thought.

Put it this way, what did you expect to happen?

 

[dannno]

Put it this way, what did you expect to happen?

It's like a neglected child throwing a tantrum and a bunch of people are focusing on the tantrum instead of the neglect.

 

[hells_unicorn]

Why not? Is it because The Spin Stops Here?

No, because nobody here on either side of this is approaching this from a Fox News angle, to speak nothing for anybody here liking Bill O'Reilly (I can't stand the guy and find his opinions idiotic). Any commonality that either side of this has with Fox News or any MSM outlet is incidental at best. Are you familiar with the informal logical fallacy of equivocation, because you've been riding that train for several posts now.

Put it this way, what did you expect to happen?

I just want to be clear here, as much as I think it is likely that the police that were holding Gray probably lost their cool and beat him to death, I can picture them saying this exact same thing to him with a similar rationale based on his wrap sheet and behavior (wrongly) as he was being beaten. Someone else's bad behavior is not a justification for more of it, lest all of society would be consumed by chaos. By all means, if the police officers murdered Gray, they should be punished as severely as anyone else, as should all the rioters in a proportional fashion for their crimes.

It's like a neglected child throwing a tantrum and a bunch of people are focusing on the tantrum instead of the neglect.

Let me know when a child's temper tantrum reduces entire buildings to a smoldering rubble and destroys peoples' livelihoods. And I have yet to see a single person here parrot the Fox News cliche of "let's give the cops the benefit of the doubt and not talk about the abuses of the governing authorities in Baltimore or elsewhere for any of this" in this entire discussion. Even a fair amount of the Fox News clips on this that I've seen featured pundits talking about the need for police to be disciplined whenever they get out of control.

 

[Crashland]

It's like a neglected child throwing a tantrum and a bunch of people are focusing on the tantrum instead of the neglect.

If the neglected child's tantrum includes looting, violence and destruction of property, then you need to stop both the tantrum AND the neglect. In this case, addressing the tantrum is more urgent than addressing the neglect, even though addressing the neglect may be more important.

 

[AuH20]

It's like a neglected child throwing a tantrum and a bunch of people are focusing on the tantrum instead of the neglect.

The tantrum is ESSENTIAL to understanding who the child is. It's not a good harbinger when buildings burn and innocent people suffer. This is just the prologue.

 

[William Tell]

For a second there that reads like you are talking about the cops

That is an interesting point, you see, I have a problem with police doing violent and destructive stuff as well. You seem to only care about destruction of private property if the perpetrator happens to be wearing a badge.

and the people who pay them.

What, you think that none of the rioters pay taxes? Get real, these people support the police through sales taxes etc just like anyone else. I guess if they are on welfare they don't pay as much, but then they are taking government checks, just like the cops.

Pretty much, unless you are a hermit poaching frogs out of pond, you are supporting or taking from the system in some way.

Maybe you also think the victims of robbery by common criminals are voluntarily supporting robbers, I don't know.