Rand Paul dismisses Ann Coulter on immigration

[abacabb]

Steve Deace is already hyping up Santorum...figured I could post this here since he came up. Basically says everyone else is running away from social conservatives to the point that Santorum will assemble a grand coalition.

http://www.businessinsider.com/dont-count-santorum-out-for-2016-2013-3

+Rep, good article, I think that we are isolating a very easy to manipulate voting demographic, which is just the wrong thing to do.

 

[FSP-Rebel]

It's strange and scary that the majority of the party ignores the majority of the party base, Rand included.

They've been brainwashed for years that any sort of immigration plan = amnesty. Much of it is based upon bigotry as most would have no problem if the target sample was Europeans, Canadians or Asians. They are also the ones that refuse to acknowledge that the drug war has done a lot of damage to Latin countries.

 

[supermario21]

I don't think immigration is a huge issue to the "base" anymore. The base is a fickle bunch, especially in primary elections. They will go where their puppet masters tell them to go. Maybe I'm wrong, but more people care about our fiscal issues. Many Tea Party congressmen (Amash, Massie, Mulvaney, etc) are all getting behind RAND on immigration. Not Rubio, but RAND. We have to do something about our border security, and just denying that illegal immigration is a problem or just saying "deport them" is going to make the problem worse because we will keep losing and nothing will ever get done, or we will get stuck with a full-blown restriction-less amnesty.

 

[abacabb]

They've been brainwashed for years that any sort of immigration plan = amnesty. Much of it is based upon bigotry as most would have no problem if the target sample was Europeans, Canadians or Asians. They are also the ones that refuse to acknowledge that the drug war has done a lot of damage to Latin countries.

They just need some red meat thrown at them. Illegals "broke the law" and need to be "punished." Those with "criminal records" are to be "deported." Those with good records are to be made into "tax payers" over time and not to be given preferential treatment over other immigrants. They are not to be given federally funded programs for tuition and healthcare. We do this while "aggressively" securing the border. What we have now is "defacto amnesty." This creates "law and order."

It has to be sold differently to the base, and ending future immigration and cutting welfare at the knees has to be spoken about concurrently.

 

[eating_nachos]

Yes, if the base is going to accept immigration reform they must be tricked into believing that it's actually good for them and the country.

 

[Brett85]

I don't think immigration is a huge issue to the "base" anymore. The base is a fickle bunch, especially in primary elections. They will go where their puppet masters tell them to go. Maybe I'm wrong, but more people care about our fiscal issues. Many Tea Party congressmen (Amash, Massie, Mulvaney, etc) are all getting behind RAND on immigration. Not Rubio, but RAND. We have to do something about our border security, and just denying that illegal immigration is a problem or just saying "deport them" is going to make the problem worse because we will keep losing and nothing will ever get done, or we will get stuck with a full-blown restriction-less amnesty.

People should be able to tell by now that my political views are very conservative; I've been saying that I'm not willing to give an inch when it comes to defending the sanctity of human life. But I just don't care nearly as much about this issue as I do about something like abortion. I've traditionally been opposed to a path to citizenship, but I realize that it's reached the point of no return as far as the hispanic population is concerned. Now that it's reached the size that it currently is, the Republican Party can no longer be immigration hawks. It's that simple. They're going to have to get the vote of Hispanics in order to win future elections. Rand's bill is as good as we're going to get, as it at least secures the border and solves the problem for good. It also doesn't give any kind of immediate citizenship but simply makes the illegals who are here go to the back of the line.

 

[supermario21]

People should be able to tell by now that my political views are very conservative; I've been saying that I'm not willing to give an inch when it comes to defending the sanctity of human life. But I just don't care nearly as much about this issue as I do about something like abortion. I've traditionally been opposed to a path to citizenship, but I realize that it's reached the point of no return as far as the hispanic population is concerned. Now that it's reached the size that it currently is, the Republican Party can no longer be immigration hawks. It's that simple. They're going to have to get the vote of Hispanics in order to win future elections. Rand's bill is as good as we're going to get, as it at least secures the border and solves the problem for good. It also doesn't give any kind of immediate citizenship but simply makes the illegals who are here go to the back of the line.

Yeah, I agree with you entirely on this.

 

[eating_nachos]

People should be able to tell by now that my political views are very conservative; I've been saying that I'm not willing to give an inch when it comes to defending the sanctity of human life. But I just don't care nearly as much about this issue as I do about something like abortion. I've traditionally been opposed to a path to citizenship, but I realize that it's reached the point of no return as far as the hispanic population is concerned. Now that it's reached the size that it currently is, the Republican Party can no longer be immigration hawks. It's that simple. They're going to have to get the vote of Hispanics in order to win future elections. Rand's bill is as good as we're going to get, as it at least secures the border and solves the problem for good. It also doesn't give any kind of immediate citizenship but simply makes the illegals who are here go to the back of the line.

You do realize that the only way Republicans make headway with Hispanic is to be Democrats Lite, right? Which is basically the complete opposite of our goals.

 

[QuickZ06]

You do realize that the only way Republicans make headway with Hispanic is to be Democrats Lite, right? Which is basically the complete opposite of our goals.

Why not be libertarian?

 

[eating_nachos]

Why not be libertarian?

History says they like big government.

 

[FSP-Rebel]

It has to be sold differently to the base, and ending future immigration and cutting welfare at the knees has to be spoken about concurrently.

Doubtful that we can ever have a policy of no future immigration tho I agree that handling the criminal element and doing away with welfare has to happen but it won't be palatable until the economy is turned around and private charity can flourish once again.

 

[Brett85]

You do realize that the only way Republicans make headway with Hispanic is to be Democrats Lite, right? Which is basically the complete opposite of our goals.

1) Rand just thinks the only way we they'll even listen to us and consider our ideas is if we're not seen as being hostile to them.
2) Some of the libertarian ideas we support would probably be more popular with Hispanics than the kind of authoritarian conservatism that the Republican Party supports today. Hispanics probably want to stay out of wars overseas and wouldn't mind legalizing marijuana.

 

[abacabb]

1) Rand just thinks the only way we they'll even listen to us and consider our ideas is if we're not seen as being hostile to them.
2) Some of the libertarian ideas we support would probably be more popular with Hispanics than the kind of authoritarian conservatism that the Republican Party supports today. Hispanics probably want to stay out of wars overseas and wouldn't mind legalizing marijuana.

When I was in college, the older libertarians would try to convert us by saying "we believe in legalizing drugs."

Didn't like the assumption that I was a degenerate.

 

[eating_nachos]

1) Rand just thinks the only way we they'll even listen to us and consider our ideas is if we're not seen as being hostile to them.
2) Some of the libertarian ideas we support would probably be more popular with Hispanics than the kind of authoritarian conservatism that the Republican Party supports today. Hispanics probably want to stay out of wars overseas and wouldn't mind legalizing marijuana.

According to exit polls what won the Democrats the Hispanic vote was two things. Their economic policies and their stance on education. Rand Paul wants to end the Dept. of Education, and cut social programs.

Do you see where I'm going with this... ?

BTW, I really doubt legalizing marijuana is enough to capture the Hispanic vote. Most, I'm guessing, would fine the implication insulting.

 

[supermario21]

According to exit polls what won the Democrats the Hispanic vote was two things. Their economic policies and their stance on education. Rand Paul wants to end the Dept. of Education, and cut social programs.

Do you see where I'm going with this... ?

BTW, I really doubt legalizing marijuana is enough to capture the Hispanic vote. Most, I'm guessing, would fine the implication insulting.

Of course they're going to side with the Dems on those issues. Because it's a matter of an opportunity or getting thrown out of the country. Romney was incredibly anti-immigrant throughout the campaign. It even applies to Republican ideals. Making illegals ineligible for school vouchers for example means they have no choice but to support the Dems.

 

[Brett85]

According to exit polls what won the Democrats the Hispanic vote was two things. Their economic policies and their stance on education. Rand Paul wants to end the Dept. of Education, and cut social programs.

Do you see where I'm going with this... ?

BTW, I really doubt legalizing marijuana is enough to capture the Hispanic vote. Most, I'm guessing, would fine the implication insulting.

Rand talks about school choice all of the time and how that would improve education. Hispanics might like that idea.

 

[Brett85]

Also, the Republicans don't actually need to win the Hispanic vote to win a Presidential election, they just need to get a higher percentage than they're getting now. They just need to get about 45% of the Hispanic vote like George W. Bush got in 2004.

 

[abacabb]

Why are we worrying about illegals? Illegals by definition don't even vote.

In reality the hispanics whose vote is becoming more important (but whose importance is way overblown) are 2nd generation. Second generation hispanic, asian, and caribbean americans have other issues more important to them. They voted for Obama because they were shallowly sticking it to the man. Many of us voted Ron Paul, even though he couldn't win, because we were intelligently sticking it to the man.

However, amnestying illegals is not the key issue to this demographic, it's retarded pandering that will only hand the democrats votes. I wish a firey asian or caribbean american would rise up and say, "My family worked their balls off and didn't take crap from the government, and we don't want our hard work to be taken advantage of by a bunch of dead beats."

A lot of hard working "solid blue" people feel that way, but condescending pandering won't wake them up to the liberty message. We will not win through political manipulation. We either get the message into peoples minds or die.

 

[supermario21]

Why are we worrying about illegals? Illegals by definition don't even vote.

In reality the hispanics whose vote is becoming more important (but whose importance is way overblown) are 2nd generation. Second generation hispanic, asian, and caribbean americans have other issues more important to them. They voted for Obama because they were shallowly sticking it to the man. Many of us voted Ron Paul, even though he couldn't win, because we were intelligently sticking it to the man.

However, amnestying illegals is not the key issue to this demographic, it's retarded pandering that will only hand the democrats votes. I wish a firey asian or caribbean american would rise up and say, "My family worked their balls off and didn't take crap from the government, and we don't want our hard work to be taken advantage of by a bunch of dead beats."

A lot of hard working "solid blue" people feel that way, but condescending pandering won't wake them up to the liberty message. We will not win through political manipulation. We either get the message into peoples minds or die.

The sad thing is these minorities are cast off as tokens and dissed by those in their own race. I don't even think Susanna Martinez or Brian Sandoval, for example, did particularly well with Hispanics in their elections. Sandoval, a pro-choice, popular moderate, lost the Hispanic vote 64-33.

 

[abacabb]

The sad thing is these minorities are cast off as tokens and dissed by those in their own race. I don't even think Susanna Martinez or Brian Sandoval, for example, did particularly well with Hispanics in their elections. Sandoval, a pro-choice, popular moderate, lost the Hispanic vote 64-33.

The message has to be honest and direct. If the message of liberty isn't presented, then people go the easy way (handouts.)