Rand Paul dismisses Ann Coulter on immigration

[Brett85]

However, amnestying illegals is not the key issue to this demographic, it's retarded pandering that will only hand the democrats votes. I wish a firey asian or caribbean american would rise up and say, "My family worked their balls off and didn't take crap from the government, and we don't want our hard work to be taken advantage of by a bunch of dead beats.".

How is it "amnesty" to make them get in the back of the immigration line that already exists? Is it "amnesty" if they get to become citizens 10-15 years from now?

 

[abacabb]

How is it "amnesty" to make them get in the back of the immigration line that already exists? Is it "amnesty" if they get to become citizens 10-15 years from now?

Yes it is. They have zero fear of being kicked out for breaking the law.

In my opinion, an illegal should be given a pathway to residency and under no circumstance citizenship. By breaking our law, you forfeit that opportunity.

 

[supermario21]

I've just been thinking about this. If the bipartisan group doesn't vote yes on Rand's amendment, does the whole thing die or just pass without Rand's vote? Would Rand be viewed as a hero or a scapegoat? Could be a double-edged sword. Immigration is such a terrible issue, but Rand has shown lots of courage by stepping into the fire.

 

[Brett85]

Yes it is. They have zero fear of being kicked out for breaking the law.

And the Republicans threatening to kick out Latino illegal immigrants will help them with Latino voters?

In my opinion, an illegal should be given a pathway to residency and under no circumstance citizenship. By breaking our law, you forfeit that opportunity.

The only difference between your position and Rand's position is that the illegal immigrants would have to go back to Mexico and apply for citizenship, and Rand would let them apply for citizenship without going back home. Either way they would still end up becoming a U.S citizen at the exact same date. The only difference is that they would be living in Mexico during the waiting period rather than the U.S.

 

[supermario21]

Another thing to throw out, to add to my data showing Brian Sandoval losing the Hispanic vote 65-32, Sharron Angle only did a few points worse, 69-30....That should tell you something. Is there really that much to gain out of this?

 

[abacabb]

I've just been thinking about this. If the bipartisan group doesn't vote yes on Rand's amendment, does the whole thing die or just pass without Rand's vote? Would Rand be viewed as a hero or a scapegoat? Could be a double-edged sword. Immigration is such a terrible issue, but Rand has shown lots of courage by stepping into the fire.

If it is ignored, it's a fail for Rand. He could have ignored the issue and it wouldn't even be an issue on 2016, because it's too late.

If it is part of it, it might be good or it might hurt him (like voting for the bailout hurts how other candidates look to us).

So, to me, it's just a horrible political calculation.

 

[Brett85]

I've just been thinking about this. If the bipartisan group doesn't vote yes on Rand's amendment, does the whole thing die or just pass without Rand's vote? Would Rand be viewed as a hero or a scapegoat? Could be a double-edged sword. Immigration is such a terrible issue, but Rand has shown lots of courage by stepping into the fire.

He'll probably vote "no" if his amendment doesn't pass, and might vote "no" anyone since the Gang of Eight plan will include a mandatory E-Verify program. Rand opposes that and might vote against the bill for that reason. Voting against the bill would probably help him in the primary and hurt him in the general election.

 

[Brett85]

So, to me, it's just a horrible political calculation.

No, it's a brilliant political calculation, because he's able to be seen as "sensible" and "moderate" on this issue without actually voting for the final bill that passes. He's proposing a "conservative alternative" to the Gang of Eight plan and will likely end up voting against the Gang of Eight plan.

 

[abacabb]

And the Republicans threatening to kick out Latino illegal immigrants will help them with Latino voters?



The only difference between your position and Rand's position is that the illegal immigrants would have to go back to Mexico and apply for citizenship, and Rand would let them apply for citizenship without going back home. Either way they would still end up becoming a U.S citizen at the exact same date. The only difference is that they would be living in Mexico during the waiting period rather than the U.S.

I don't want them back in Mexico unless they broke the law. What I want is if they apply for residency with the united states as their address, under this imaginary law of mine, they forfeit future rights and immunities of citizens. If they don't like it, they can leave.

 

[abacabb]

No, it's a brilliant political calculation, because he's able to be seen as "sensible" and "moderate" on this issue without actually voting for the final bill that passes. He's proposing a "conservative alternative" to the Gang of Eight plan and will likely end up voting against the Gang of Eight plan.

His alternative is simply not conservative outwardly, and it's provision to grant people status based upon border security, as voted by congress, would simply be a measure of who's the majority in the house, Repubs or Dems. Repubs by necessity will always say the border is not secure, prolonging hispanics distrusting conservatism.

This whole immigration mess needs to be pulled off like a band aid.

Want to stay here? Fine! Sign here and you can stay as a "Class A Legal Resident as per the immigration act of 2013," you get to be just like us but you can never vote and apply for federally funded programs.

Hardworking people will sign the dotted line.

 

[Brett85]

Rand also said that he might include something in his plan that the Governors from border states would have to verify that the border is secure before the path to legalization would go forward.

 

[eating_nachos]

Of course they're going to side with the Dems on those issues. Because it's a matter of an opportunity or getting thrown out of the country. Romney was incredibly anti-immigrant throughout the campaign. It even applies to Republican ideals. Making illegals ineligible for school vouchers for example means they have no choice but to support the Dems.

This doesn't make any sense. If you have the right to vote then you're here legally. Why would anyone here legally worry about being kicked out? Illegals can't support anyone.

 

[supermario21]

This doesn't make any sense. If you have the right to vote then you're here legally. Why would anyone here legally worry about being kicked out? Illegals can't support anyone.

Relatives, friends, etc...

 

[brandon]

It's obvious Rand is not ready for prime time. Immigration reform is not a big issue with the American people. The only place where it is, in elite circles in Washington DC. Rand is supposed to be anti elitist.

It's obvious you aren't that in tune with the country's current political makeup. Immigration is a huge issue in the super close purple state of Florida, and their huge amount of electoral votes could easily make or break the 2016 general election.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

How many in the liberty movement vs the possible win over of the Hispanic vote?

 

[abacabb]

Let me add, as part of a realistic plan to immigration reform, I'd give residency to those here and end the system of family sponsorship and make our system similar to Canada's (you can apply if you show you're of economic value to the country.)

If you're working here illegally, but your family is back home, if you decide to stay here don't expect to bring them here to or they will have no chance of getting status of any kind.

If we make citizens of these illegals, we don't only make citizens of their children by default (as their children would be citizens anyway), but in all the family they sponsor will ultimately become citizens as well.

 

[eating_nachos]

Rand talks about school choice all of the time and how that would improve education. Hispanics might like that idea.

I agree this is an idea Hispanics would probably like and so would other minorities.

Republicans are working under the premise that they lost the vote because of their stance on illegal immigration. They didn't, they lost it because they're seen as the party that only cares about rich people. What we need is creative free market based policies that would help solve some of their problems.

 

[abacabb]

It would also help if we stopped signing regressive fair tax pledges every election.

Ever hang out with rich people? The lot of them think they are God because they have money. So, I don't hate them but for that reason and out of envy a lot of people do. Crying about how they pay most of the taxes and trying to reduce what they pay doesn't win an election.

 

[Dianne]

Rand can take a hike in my book. There is either the rule of law, or there isn't ... There is law. The entire rape for the middle class is paying for illegals to flock here, and immediately free medical care, free college degrees, free day care, free food stamps.

I'm out on Rand !!! He should have worked to free "LEGALS" in America, who have been jailed for smoking pot !!!! Or, even a better cause... ask for DRUG TESTING of PRESIDENT OBAMA, JOE BIDEN, HARRY REED... ERIC HOLDER !!! They are the ones you want... I bet they have more drugs in them them 50 CVS Pharmacy's... and yet no drug tests required for them?

 

[eating_nachos]

It would also help if we stopped signing regressive fair tax pledges every election.

Ever hang out with rich people? The lot of them think they are God because they have money. So, I don't hate them but for that reason and out of envy a lot of people do. Crying about how they pay most of the taxes and trying to reduce what they pay doesn't win an election.

Yep, fighting tooth and nail to stop taxes being raised for the wealthy wasn't a good move either.

I don't think taxes should be raised at all but as tactical move it was really bad.