Police officers shot in Las Vegas

[Christian Liberty]

I disagree that all cops are bad. I don't subscribe to the NAP. I am a minarchist who thinks that limited government is a preferable albeit not-perfect solution. Police, courts, military, etc.

Etc? What else. A true minarchist would say that ONLY those three things should be done by the government (BTW: I don't necessarily disagree with "government", but I disagree with the State.) Once you add the "etc." you're no longer really a minarchist but some hybrid between libertarianism and small-government conservatism.

That said, I'll answer on your own minarchist terms. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the police, courts, and defensive military (I assume you don't think preemptive war is justified)) can rightfully be run by the government, and that taxation to a level sufficient to fund these limited function is justified, and that police enforcing laws consistent with the NAP, and for whatever reason including the taxation scheme necessary to fund this, is justified.

Even if all of these things were true, I don't think this does anything for the modern American cop. It doesn't really make him any more justified. The only point at which the above scenario would differ from what I believe, in terms of the cop's responsibility (I don't believe that its necessarily unjustified to work for the government as long as the work itself isn't aggressive in nature, I view taking money from the government in much the same way that Walter Block does) is that in the above scenario, enforcing a minimal level of taxation is justified. The reality is that, the tax rates that cops are enforcing is way higher than that. The reality is that there are still all kinds of victimless crimes laws on the books that have nothing to do with taxation. Drug laws, gun control laws, laws against consensual sexual activities such as prostitution, anti-discrimination laws, laws against "price gouging", laws against disrespecting the american flag, and many, many more. Cops can't just turn a blind eye to all of these things, they'll get fired.

Mind you, I'm not saying all cops are equally bad. I'm not saying all cops should die. I'm not saying that there aren't likeable cops. I'm not saying there aren't cops who have the best of intentions. But I am saying that all cops are bad in at least some sense, because their careers require them to act aggressively, and that applies even if we assume that the necessary aggressions of a minimal state are not actually aggressive. I think that normally the best response to this is simply to be honest about it. Don't beat around the bush, don't pretend that its unjustified. Redistribution of wealth, except with consent or after conviction for an act of aggression, is theft. Locking someone up, except as punishment for a violent crime, is kidnapping. Killing someone, except in self-defense or as punishment for murder, and this includes cops who use "self-defense" after initiating an aggressive encounter, is murder. I'd be hesitant to use physical force, because the reprecussions are huge for doing so. I can see some cases where I could condone it (and I certainly wouldn't mention such cases on the internet) but normally I'd disagree with it even if it were justified.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Radio is claiming the shooters were drug addicts with a house full of swastikas and "conspiracy theorists"

Return to cop-hating/bashing.

That is all

I have said it all along, this is not "cop bashing".

Apparently that is just too complex an argument for some to comprehend.

That's it, I'm done, not posting another, "cop shoots dog", "cop shoots baby in the face", "SWAT shoots unarmed man in the face story".

Enjoy your police state...

Fuck's sake.

 

[jllundqu]

I have said it all along, this is not "cop bashing".

Apparently that is just too complex an argument for some to comprehend.

That's it, I'm done, not posting another, "cop shoots dog", "cop shoots baby in the face", "SWAT shoots unarmed man in the face story".

Enjoy your police state...

Fuck's sake.

Have you not read the posts in this thread? The OP and story are not cop bashing. People posting in this thread ARE.

Enjoy your collectivist "all cops are evil" meme.

Fuck's sake.

 

[AuH20]

Radio is claiming the shooters were drug addicts with a house full of swastikas and "conspiracy theorists"

Return to cop-hating/bashing.

That is all

I'm shocked mind altering drugs were used. Shocked.

 

[AuH20]

Was this the same couple that they rebuked at the Bundy Ranch? It supposedly was a young couple like this and one of them was a felon. So this may be the same people.

 

[dannno]

Have you not read the posts in this thread? The OP and story are not cop bashing. People posting in this thread ARE.

Enjoy your collectivist "all cops are evil" meme.

Fuck's sake.

Last time I was at a house that had a bunch of swasticas, the owner of the house was Jewish and the swasticas were attributed to our former President Bush Jr.

He was also a drug addict.

I would rather have 100 of those guys as my neighbors than a single cop.

 

[AuH20]

Last time I was at a house that had a bunch of swasticas, the owner of the house was Jewish and the swasticas were attributed to our former President Bush Jr.

He was also a drug addict.

I would rather have 100 of those guys as my neighbors than a single cop.

I choose to not associate with people who can't handle reality. That's just me. I view that as a weakness that will come back to bite the particular person and the group who he associates with.

 

[Weston White]

Just wonderful, and now we already enter the bonus round:

The shooter Jared, has had a Planet Inforwars account, right after the site went online, dated May 28, 2012 in Guns, Offbeat, Politics, Preparedness, Resistance; Tags: Laws, nazi, Patriots, police, rights:

The Police (to kill or not to kill?)​

I stand at a point in my life where I am on probation for selling marijuana. I take urine screens frequently and I am forced to take drug classes I do not need. Before I got arrested I had 2 jobs and was selling weed to my friends and family on the side. Now I cannot find a job. My probation officer states that if I protest that my probation will be violated. They have tried to tell my fiance, who has no criminal record, that she may not own a firearm if I live in the house. Now, i face a dire problem. At any time the police could show up to my house and enter it for any reason at all, because, since I’m on probation aparently I dont have my 4th amendment right and neither does my fiance. I live in Indiana and recently a law was passed named the right to resist law. As i can make out from it, if a police officer kicks in my door and is not there legally, then I may shoot him. But what is legal? A warrant signed by a judge? What if that judge however enforces unconstitutional laws? Locks people in cages for putting a substance into their bodies. I was arrested for a crime, that is a felony, yet i hurt no one. Never laid a hand on a person or their property. Was selling something on the black market that is in high demand. Yet there is no victim in the crime i committed, so how can that be a felony charge? A charge that takes my 1st, 2nd, and 4th right away? How can this be? Do I really live in a free country? So here I sit today pondering………….

Before I go any further however, i would like to tell you a story about a friend of mine. He got charged with a misdomenor for having a marijuana pipe on him. He was released from jail and he was given the wrong court date. He then had an arrest warrant out for him. I was at his house late one night playing a video game with him. A knock on the door came. He opened the door and cops shoved him to the ground and came rushing in guns drawn. several of the police officers were wearing ski masks. 2 police officers then shoved guns in my face fingers on the triggers as the rest swept the house. They pulled his father who was asleep from his bed and dragged him into the living room. I was ordered to lay face down on the floor as they searched me. Finally after running my name they uncuffed me and his father and took my friend to jail. Before we knew what was going on it was over and I felt as if I had taken a trip back in time to nazi germany.

Now, that was my last encounter with police officers. I’m afraid they may try to do some stuff like that to my fiance and I. For the most part, I’m a law abiding citizen. I believe in Gods law. You know the ones. Dont steal, dont murder, etc. I fear that if they came, even with a warrant, that I feel they are being unlawfull and infringing upon my rights. I feel that I have been violated and tread upon. That the so called justice system has done me harm. I do not wish to kill police. I understand that most of them believe they are doing the right thing. Yet, I will not go to jail, because I have not committed a crime! I would rather die than be labeled as a criminal. Let them call me a terrorist. Let them label me as a fanatic, some nut job. I know the truth, and so does God. I’m sure our founding fathers were labeled as such. Call me a radical, i will wear that badge with pride. Because America is a radical idea! Brought up upon radical thinking. That each man has constitutional rights that are God given and cannot be taken away no matter what. I refuse to stand by and let them dictate my life. My family loves me, my neighbors love me. I do good for the community, more than any cop can claim. How can a police officer have a consience arresting people who have done nothing to harm a fellow american? How can they sleep at night? I wouldnt be able to. So as i reflect, I’m being pushed further and further into a corner. I am like a wild coyote. You corner me, I will fight to the death. I love America, i love the idea of it. I am broken hearted tho to see people so pacified by materealism and obsession with hollywood stars. It is our duty as American citizens to stand against tyranny. To stand against corruption at all levels. How did this happen? That patriots like me could be resting under the boot of tyrants, and as i plead for help from my fellow americans they just walk on by. All the while thinking, at least its not happening to me. Yet, the sad thing is, it is happening to them. So, do I kill cops and make a stand when they come to get me? I would prefer to die than sit in their jail, when I have done nothing to hurt anyone.

Source: http://planet.infowars.com/offbeat/the-police-to-kill-or-not-to-kill

He was last active over one-year ago. And on his account one of his friends is his wife Amanda Woodruff then shown to be engaged, as well as himself, shown within her profile:

About me: My name is Amanda and I’m 20 years old. I’m also engaged. I’m so sick of what the Government is getting away and how the people around are asleep. I’m so glad to finally found someone I love who agrees with me and doesn’t think I’m crazy for what I believe and for who I am.

Heroes: My fiance

http://planet.infowars.com/members/twiggy/profile/

 

[dannno]

I choose to not associate with people who can't handle reality. That's just me. I view that as a weakness that will come back to bite the particular person and the group who he associates with.

Right, so I guess you don't drink coffee and don't associate with anybody who does.

Get off your damn high horse.

From my experience, people who get up and drink coffee and sit in a cubicle have more problems with "reality" than any drug addict I've ever known.

This is coming from somebody who gets up, drinks coffee and sits in a cubicle.

 

[bunklocoempire]

You have a son who's going into the police, and you understand the problems with police, so you'd probably have a very interesting perspective on this, what did you think of Cantwell's comment?


This is where the "broad brush" accusations become valid. I don't think for a second that every single cop without exception defends assaulting women and children and killing dogs.

Mind you, I'm not saying that means there is a single cop who isn't part of the problem. I'm not saying the cops that don't do this are noble or heroic. Really, the best they can possibly do is fail to show up for worked, followed by treating people courteously where they unknowingly steal from and kidnap people.

I guess I just don't view myself as being at total war with the police the same way some of you guys do. That's not to say that I condone or support them in any way. I guess I just don't go as far with it as possible. While I could kill a cop to protect my life, I am not going to look for an opportunity to do it, and I don't think you should either.

Mind you, I'm talking about individually taking action here. I'm not talking about an organized armed secession movement. In that type of situation my suggestions would change some, because then you have some goal that at least doesn't count on being killed.



I honestly don't know what would happen. I think that the cop who genuinely believes they are doing good (note: I don't think this is all or even most cops. It may even be a minority of cops, actually. That wouldn't surprise me at all. But I do believe they exist) would have to at least accept my calling them out as my free speech right, even if it offended them. Now, if you're contention is that there isn't a single cop in the country who would not kill me, arrest me, or in some way legally harass me over it, and if you are correct about that, than you'd probably be right when you say that there isn't a single well meaning cop in the country. But I don't believe that that's the case.

I know a police captain personally, and we've discussed politics before. While I've never came out and said "being a cop is evil", I've definitely hinted at the problems with policing and attacked the existence of the State in our conversations. And even if I did flat out tell him that his job was evil, I am confident I would survive the situation (I'd likely tick my family off more than him, actually) Mind you, he's a Christian as well. Atheists and agnostics who become cops, their only loyalty is the State, and that's truly a terrifying thought...

Here's the comment I believe you are referring to:

People say the officers were “simply eating lunch” and so this was a clear cut case of murder. I could not disagree more. Those officers were merely taking a short break from the aggressions all police commit day in, and day out. Immediately after they got done with their break, they would inevitably have returned to their regular duties of harassing and extorting motorists, kidnapping people for possessing plants. They paid for their food, with money that was taken from people under the threats of violence that are taxation, and fines. While it’s a lot easier to draw the connection in something like the Justin Bourque incident, the fact remains that all police are aggressors. There is no such thing as a good cop.

Interesting perspective? No, not really, just practical if anything, but maybe practical is the new interesting? I live in a sinful world with sinners, myself being the chief of those sinners because I know myself the best.

That said, I totally understand where he's coming from. Police are not free men, they are willing property of the "law", law that WILL naturally become perverted -if not already (we're fully saturated with perverted law, for a long, long time now).

Those who are simply ignorant (uninformed, not stupid) or inexperienced in life going into it, as my own son is, have been duped into doubting that protecting their own liberty (BoR), and protecting their fellow mans liberty, is the BEST way to help their fellow man. It's a gang perpetuated by doubt -and a convenient pay check as Cantwell points out. <-- Doubt leaves the door wide open for -you name it.

Those who go into it with eyes wide open... well, their undeclared belief IMO, is placing infringement of rights above the rights themselves as a better "solution" to best help their fellow man. <-- That absolutely attracts dangerous elements. How could it not?

Then we have the dangerous elements themselves. But it's totally to be expected.

Lastly would be the very best case scenario. An upright and informed man working in a system that is naturally bound to fail. But would an upright informed man really be in a system that is not absolutely voluntary? No. Again doubt enters the picture. You either believe in liberty or you don't. Courage vs. fear.

Who started this aggressive ball rolling out of doubt, pride, and fear? Logic dictates that truly free men embracing what is needed to protect their own and their fellow man's liberty, solid faith, humbleness, and courage, would have no need to start this.

Sinful man is sooooooo predictable. Especially when there's a paycheck theft involved from the beginning and encouragement to not keep doubt, pride, and fear in check. It's all been said in some way before, but that's my perspective. Again, sinful men in a sinful world. It's pretty cut and dried.

No fear!

 

[JK/SEA]

reality is for people who can't handle drugs....

 

[dannno]

Just wonderful, and now we already enter the bonus round:

The shooter Jared, has had a Planet Inforwars account, right after the site went online, dated May 28, 2012 in Guns, Offbeat, Politics, Preparedness, Resistance; Tags: Laws, nazi, Patriots, police, rights :

The Police (to kill or not to kill?)​

Source: http://planet.infowars.com/offbeat/the-police-to-kill-or-not-to-kill

He was last active over one-year ago. And on his account one of his friends is his wife Amanda Woodruff then shown to be engaged, as well as himself, shown within her profile:

About me: My name is Amanda and I’m 20 years old. I’m also engaged. I’m so sick of what the Government is getting away and how the people around are asleep. I’m so glad to finally found someone I love who agrees with me and doesn’t think I’m crazy for what I believe and for who I am.

Heroes: My fiance

http://planet.infowars.com/members/twiggy/profile/

So that's how weed kills.. People get kidnapped for possessing a plant, imprisoned and have all of their rights taken away, they get pissed off and kill their kidnappers. Sounds like a natural reaction to me.

 

[AuH20]

Right, so I guess you don't drink coffee and don't associate with anybody who does.

Get off your damn high horse.

From my experience, people who get up and drink coffee and sit in a cubicle have more problems with "reality" than any drug addict I've ever known.

This is coming from somebody who gets up, drinks coffee and sits in a cubicle.

I'm talking about drug addicts who depend on the chemical crutch everyday. Don't have anything against a disciplined drug user. Have no use for addicts who's behavior is controlled by an inanimate object.

 

[dannno]

I'm talking about drug addicts who depend on the chemical crutch everyday. Don't have anything against a disciplined drug user. Have no use for addicts who's behavior is controlled by an inanimate object.

Oh well I was calling him a drug addict based on how the media would portray him, I have no idea what if any drugs legal or illegal he was using on a daily basis.

 

[jllundqu]

Just wonderful, and now we already enter the bonus round:

The shooter Jared, has had a Planet Inforwars account, right after the site went online, dated May 28, 2012 in Guns, Offbeat, Politics, Preparedness, Resistance; Tags: Laws, nazi, Patriots, police, rights:

The Police (to kill or not to kill?)​

Source: http://planet.infowars.com/offbeat/the-police-to-kill-or-not-to-kill

He was last active over one-year ago. And on his account one of his friends is his wife Amanda Woodruff then shown to be engaged, as well as himself, shown within her profile:

About me: My name is Amanda and I’m 20 years old. I’m also engaged. I’m so sick of what the Government is getting away and how the people around are asleep. I’m so glad to finally found someone I love who agrees with me and doesn’t think I’m crazy for what I believe and for who I am.

Heroes: My fiance

http://planet.infowars.com/members/twiggy/profile/

lol

 

[AuH20]

reality is for people who can't handle drugs....

More that people that can't handle the daily rigors of life so they turn to a fantasy world. The only problem that after the high wears off, the problems are still there staring them smack in the face. It's total escapism. We need less escapism and more problem solving as a society. And escapism isn't only utilized by drug addicts. It's everywhere you look. Our culture promotes escapism through mass media.

 

[jllundqu]

More that people that can't handle the daily rigors of life so they turn to a fantasy world. The only problem that after the high wears off, the problems are still there staring them smack in the face. It's total escapism. We need less escapism and more problem solving as a society.

Agreed. I don't think drugs should be illegal, but habitutal users are weak people who can't handle real life.

 

[AuH20]

Agreed. I don't think drugs should be illegal, but habitutal users are weak people who can't handle real life.

And in some cases, some of these people have legitimate excuses for this lifestyle (child abuse, war trauma, etc.), but it's ultimately a dead end. I think these two fell into that sphere and concocted some hairbrain scheme to start a revolution by murdering two innocent, lowly cops, who are in ample supply in this country. Nothing has changed since their mission was completed.

 

[jllundqu]

And in some cases, some of these people have legitimate excuses for this lifestyle (child abuse, war trauma, etc.), but it's ultimately a dead end. I think these two fell into that sphere and concocted some hairbrain scheme to start a revolution by murdering two innocent, lowly cops, who are in ample supply in this country. Nothing has changed since their mission was completed.

Careful refering to them as 'innocent'.... you might be labeled a police-sympathizer.

 

[AuH20]

The Raw Story comments are the delusions of imbeciles. They support the Obama global corporate partnership and they have the gall to criticize us as lackeys of the establishment? Wackos.