Police officers shot in Las Vegas

Except anything in .22LR, right?

eta: Anyone else get a Pulp Fiction vibe from this story?

Honey bunny didn't stay cool. We're hurting for .22 mag out here, and a bunch of other stuff.

Tragic stuff. If it was just things boiling over, well, I expect more until something changes -people have their limits. If it was some sort of Fed led *boogity boogity move, well... I expect a lot more until something changes. Gangs bring violence. Gotta protect their imagined turf.

My first thoughts on this is that gangs have a way of taking care of in house business themselves, and if you get involved with gangs in any way, they own you. Local police, Feds, citizens. The biggest fish is going to call the shots.

*Hat tip to whoever started using boogity boogity here, (one of the Tods?) it's a term I use off-line but it is so appropriate for referring to the herd.

Yeah, I really don't want my son (or anyone's son) involved in any way with these gangs.:( More of this is sure come.
 
How can a sane person view ambushing the opposing forces while eating lunch any differently than ambushing them while they sleep?

The only difference is how the MSM paints the participants....

One group comes 2 strong and doesn't assault any children while the other group defends assaulting woman and children, even killing dogs...
 
Really? It's disturbing how cold people here are towards police. I'm no fan of law enforcement, and I practice the "don't talk to the police" method of protecting myself when needed, but assuming that all cops are so evil that they deserve to die is beyond ridiculous.

A couple of nuts killed 3 innocent people. All were human beings and none deserved to die.

"Beck was a senior patrol officer who had taught Advanced Officer Skills Training and at the Metro academy. He was hired by Metro in 2001 and had a wife and three children.

Soldo has been a Metro officer since 2006 and had a wife and baby. Both were uniform patrol officers assigned to the Northeast Area Command."

Miriam Carey had a baby IN THE CAR when they shot her.
 
Hey FF, this is really as far as I need to reason this out, as far as the cops that are caught up in a system and think they're doing good.

Go try to explain it to them.

Do you believe that you'd escape that situation with all your existing property, freedom, and/ or mental and physical faculties?

I don't believe that for a minute. And I sure as hell didn't create this situation where we're told the way things are, and risk financial ruin, dismemberment, or death when simply trying to reason with those telling us.
 
They wasted their life on the police? No high value target? Were they on mind-altering drugs? This is sad all-around. If you can't identify the crimes of the individual, you probably shouldn't engage them.
 
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Really? It's disturbing how cold people here are towards police. I'm no fan of law enforcement, and I practice the "don't talk to the police" method of protecting myself when needed, but assuming that all cops are so evil that they deserve to die is beyond ridiculous.

A couple of nuts killed 3 innocent people. All were human beings and none deserved to die.

"Beck was a senior patrol officer who had taught Advanced Officer Skills Training and at the Metro academy. He was hired by Metro in 2001 and had a wife and three children.

Soldo has been a Metro officer since 2006 and had a wife and baby. Both were uniform patrol officers assigned to the Northeast Area Command."

And we have no clue what their sentiments where. Indiscriminately killing police in a non-defense mode is crazy.
 
Honey bunny didn't stay cool. We're hurting for .22 mag out here, and a bunch of other stuff.

Tragic stuff. If it was just things boiling over, well, I expect more until something changes -people have their limits. If it was some sort of Fed led *boogity boogity move, well... I expect a lot more until something changes. Gangs bring violence. Gotta protect their imagined turf.

My first thoughts on this is that gangs have a way of taking care of in house business themselves, and if you get involved with gangs in any way, they own you. Local police, Feds, citizens. The biggest fish is going to call the shots.

*Hat tip to whoever started using boogity boogity here, (one of the Tods?) it's a term I use off-line but it is so appropriate for referring to the herd.

Yeah, I really don't want my son (or anyone's son) involved in any way with these gangs.:( More of this is sure come.

You have a son who's going into the police, and you understand the problems with police, so you'd probably have a very interesting perspective on this, what did you think of Cantwell's comment?
How can a sane person view ambushing the opposing forces while eating lunch any differently than ambushing them while they sleep?

The only difference is how the MSM paints the participants....

One group comes 2 strong and doesn't assault any children while the other group defends assaulting woman and children, even killing dogs...

This is where the "broad brush" accusations become valid. I don't think for a second that every single cop without exception defends assaulting women and children and killing dogs.

Mind you, I'm not saying that means there is a single cop who isn't part of the problem. I'm not saying the cops that don't do this are noble or heroic. Really, the best they can possibly do is fail to show up for worked, followed by treating people courteously where they unknowingly steal from and kidnap people.

I guess I just don't view myself as being at total war with the police the same way some of you guys do. That's not to say that I condone or support them in any way. I guess I just don't go as far with it as possible. While I could kill a cop to protect my life, I am not going to look for an opportunity to do it, and I don't think you should either.

Mind you, I'm talking about individually taking action here. I'm not talking about an organized armed secession movement. In that type of situation my suggestions would change some, because then you have some goal that at least doesn't count on being killed.

Hey FF, this is really as far as I need to reason this out, as far as the cops that are caught up in a system and think they're doing good.

Go try to explain it to them.

Do you believe that you'd escape that situation with all your existing property, freedom, and/ or mental and physical faculties?

I don't believe that for a minute. And I sure as hell didn't create this situation where we're told the way things are, and risk financial ruin, dismemberment, or death when simply trying to reason with those telling us.

I honestly don't know what would happen. I think that the cop who genuinely believes they are doing good (note: I don't think this is all or even most cops. It may even be a minority of cops, actually. That wouldn't surprise me at all. But I do believe they exist) would have to at least accept my calling them out as my free speech right, even if it offended them. Now, if you're contention is that there isn't a single cop in the country who would not kill me, arrest me, or in some way legally harass me over it, and if you are correct about that, than you'd probably be right when you say that there isn't a single well meaning cop in the country. But I don't believe that that's the case.

I know a police captain personally, and we've discussed politics before. While I've never came out and said "being a cop is evil", I've definitely hinted at the problems with policing and attacked the existence of the State in our conversations. And even if I did flat out tell him that his job was evil, I am confident I would survive the situation (I'd likely tick my family off more than him, actually;)) Mind you, he's a Christian as well. Atheists and agnostics who become cops, their only loyalty is the State, and that's truly a terrifying thought...
 
How can a sane person view ambushing the opposing forces while eating lunch any differently than ambushing them while they sleep?

The only difference is how the MSM paints the participants....

One group comes 2 strong and doesn't assault any children while the other group defends assaulting woman and children, even killing dogs...

Well this is assuming that it went down anything like is being reported.

Was there a reason that these cops were targeted? a past encounter? or an ongoing feud?

And if these two were seriously intent on starting a war,, Why put up no fight? Why the suicide with out even engaging in battle?

This story stinks,, no matter what angle you sniff it from.
 
Really? It's disturbing how cold people here are towards police. I'm no fan of law enforcement, and I practice the "don't talk to the police" method of protecting myself when needed, but assuming that all cops are so evil that they deserve to die is beyond ridiculous.

A couple of nuts killed 3 innocent people. All were human beings and none deserved to die.

"Beck was a senior patrol officer who had taught Advanced Officer Skills Training and at the Metro academy. He was hired by Metro in 2001 and had a wife and three children.

Soldo has been a Metro officer since 2006 and had a wife and baby. Both were uniform patrol officers assigned to the Northeast Area Command."

What if.........

The shooters had instead targeted the cops who beat Kelly Thomas to death? Clearly, those cops are murderous villains who escaped justice, thanks to a society that is mostly applauding the march to fascism.
 
Radio is claiming the shooters were drug addicts with a house full of swastikas and "conspiracy theorists"

Return to cop-hating/bashing.

That is all
 
Well this is assuming that it went down anything like is being reported.

Was there a reason that these cops were targeted? a past encounter? or an ongoing feud?

And if these two were seriously intent on starting a war,, Why put up no fight? Why the suicide with out even engaging in battle?

This story stinks,, no matter what angle you sniff it from.

I was commenting assuming the accuracy of the story, assuming that these guys were just regular cops and not being targeted for some specific reason beyond just being cops.

What if.........

The shooters had instead targeted the cops who beat Kelly Thomas to death? Clearly, those cops are murderous villains who escaped justice, thanks to a society that is mostly applauding the march to fascism.

I would consider them to be heroes, in that case.
 
Radio is claiming the shooters were drug addicts with a house full of swastikas and "conspiracy theorists"

Return to cop-hating/bashing.

That is all

You say that as if hating/bashing the people without whom tyranny could not continue is irrational.

Mind you, I don't hate cops I just strongly dislike them. And I don't think these people deserved to die. And its very possible that they were nice people out of work who just didn't realize how seriously wrong it is to take that job. But let's be real. Those who take the job are still part of the problem.
 
Yeah, I don't get it.
Why take the cops weapons and ammo only to commit suicide?

The psychopathy of these shooters always seems to be about the same. They are committing suicide, but they decide to take others with them first. They are already dead in their own minds before they start, and usually they take themselves out very quickly.

This is where the question of some pharmaceutical drugs (SSRIs) come into play. Do they modify the thinking of these suicidal people such that they engage in murder-suicide instead of simple suicide?
 
Unlike the Paul Ciancia and Justin Bourque cases, it doesn't seem like this was even a deliberately calculated action at all...
 
Christopher Cantwell wrote this on his blog:

People say the officers were “simply eating lunch” and so this was a clear cut case of murder. I could not disagree more. Those officers were merely taking a short break from the aggressions all police commit day in, and day out. Immediately after they got done with their break, they would inevitably have returned to their regular duties of harassing and extorting motorists, kidnapping people for possessing plants. They paid for their food, with money that was taken from people under the threats of violence that are taxation, and fines. While it’s a lot easier to draw the connection in something like the Justin Bourque incident, the fact remains that all police are aggressors. There is no such thing as a good cop.

That's ridiculous. Don't know who he is, and I won't be reading his murderous nonsense. It sounds like some neoconservative who wants to kill children in foreign lands because "they are all terrorists anyway". And it also sounds like those cops who view all citizens as dangerous criminals.
 
You say that as if hating/bashing the people without whom tyranny could not continue is irrational.

Mind you, I don't hate cops I just strongly dislike them. And I don't think these people deserved to die. And its very possible that they were nice people out of work who just didn't realize how seriously wrong it is to take that job. But let's be real. Those who take the job are still part of the problem.

I disagree that all cops are bad. I don't subscribe to the NAP. I am a minarchist who thinks that limited government is a preferable albeit not-perfect solution. Police, courts, military, etc.
 
Unlike the Paul Ciancia and Justin Bourque cases, it doesn't seem like this was even a deliberately calculated action at all...

Well media hype is Going to Meth Heads, White Supremacists and the Bundy Ranch.

But did also mention that this couple were also actors.

It will be interesting what the "Manifesto" says.

"No one associated [with them], but everyone knew these people," said resident Sara Andrea. She told the paper the assailants would occasionally walk around town dressed as The Joker and Harley Quinn, characters from Batman comic books.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/neighbor-las-vegas-shooters-were-racist-anti-government/

The husband, who neighbors only knew as Jared, was often spotted outside the couple’s Bruce Street apartment wearing camouflage when he wasn’t dressed as Peter Pan to go to work as a street performer and typically ranted about conspiracy theories.

He and his wife, Amanda, also dressed as the comic book villians Joker and Harley Quinn, neighbors said.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ds-authorites-article-1.1822387#ixzz349xhJSoP
 
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That's ridiculous. Don't know who he is, and I won't be reading his murderous nonsense. It sounds like some neoconservative who wants to kill children in foreign lands because "they are all terrorists anyway". And it also sounds like those cops who view all citizens as dangerous criminals.

I don't even agree with him and I don't think its comparable.

Foreign wars necessarily require murdering innocent civilians (those who have committed no NAP violation) and theft (via taxation) to fund the wars. Cops who view civilians as dangerous criminals are wrong because the vast majority of civilians, and even the vast majority of civilians who break the law, are not in fact dangerous and are not in fact NAP violators. By contrast, all cops are REQUIRED, as part of their jobs, to violate the NAP. And its really impossible to use proportionate force to protect yourself from the State. With the amount of resources the State has, you could even potentially (I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't advise you to do it, and I wouldn't advise you to advise anyone else to do it) even argue that being pulled over at a traffic stop is an encounter that justifies deadly force. A couple minutes of your time and a couple hundred bucks isn't worth that to me, and I doubt it would be worth it to Cantwell either, nor to pretty much anyone else who would be contemplating it. But the bottom line, the unfortunate reality, is that the only way to stop that theft is to kill the assailant. Again, personally, I'd settle for calling the guy out on his theft and then allowing him to do it, but that's just me. From an NAP perspective it seems to me that it would be justified to end that encounter by any means necessary. It isn't comparable to the child who steals a piece of candy from the store, because the cop has the might of the (physically) most powerful worldy instituion, namely, the United States Government, backing up his cases of murder. Move forward to an actual attempt to kidnap (arrest) someone for a victimless crime, and it seems pretty clear-cut to me (again, from a legalistic, NAP perspective). And the fact of the matter is, a cop gets himself into that position (putting himself in a position where someone could justifiably use deadly force against him [again, from a legalistic NAP perspective, I'm not saying it would be right, and I certainly don't suggest it]) on a daily basis.

Here's where I disagree with Cantwell. I disagree that the death of cops is something to celebrate. The loss of ANY human life is something to be mourned. Even if taking the life is something that you really did need to do, even if it was completely justified (and I'm not saying that's the case here, I'll address that in a minute) its still sad. You left a family in mourning, and its very possible that the person you killed died and went to Hell (I know Cantwell is an atheist so he wouldn't care about this bit). That's a serious thing, and not something to take lightly, even if it did need to be done (I'd kill a cop who tried to kill me, but I wouldn't celebrate his death ,and I'd be saddened that I had to do what I did.)

Here's the other point on which I disagree with him. While I do believe I would have the right to use deadly force to protect myself from being robbed or unjustly arrested/kidnapped (Do I need to provide the above disclaimer again? Just in case, I'm talking about rights, not suggestions, I don't suggest that you exercise this right in this case) and I'd have the right to help someone else to do so if he requested my help, I do not think I have the right to kill on behalf of someone who would not want me to. For instance, say you (B4L) are pulled over at a traffic ticket. You decide to comply, whether because you don't actually see the injustice of what is happening, or because you would rather not end the life of the robber in blue. The next day, I go to that cop's house and shoot him on the grounds that he has stolen from B4L and will do so to other people in the future. This, to me, is completely unjustified. Its not even really close, for me anyway. I would say I committed murder, in that case. Cantwell would say I was executing vigilante justice, but I don't really think so. It wasn't my place to take the action, and nobody even asked me to take it on their behalf. I just saw somebody who I wanted to kill and I killed him. I don't think that's justified.

Mind you, I was talking about justifiability (in an NAP sense) not what I personally would do or would justify. Personally it would take quite a bit more than that before I'd consider lethal force.
 
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