Palestine has rejected 31 Israeli peace treaties

[acptulsa]

Indeed! And some here live in former Spanish territories.

Speak for yourself.

Some of us have enough sense to live in former French territory.

You know, where enough rain falls to grow grapes, so you don't have to lick the salt and choke down cactus squeezin's.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Speak for yourself.

Some of us have enough sense to live in former French territory.

You know, where enough rain falls to grow grapes, so you don't have to lick the salt and choke down cactus squeezin's.

Certainly. I only speak for myself and others who live in former Spanish territory. My post didn't say otherwise, explicitly or implicitly.

 

[maybemaybenot]

No, I'm not saying that at all. Just show me where.

AND

The title of this thread is what again? Who rejected something?

Here's where you said Palestine was a country:

WOW, you just steal some folks' country and what thanks do you get? Maybe the Palestinians learned from the Native American's experience.

What was that land called before the UN partition in 1948? BTW, you may enjoy this. This Land Is Mine (video)

The Rothschilds wanted a country and they got one.

I was alive in 1948, were you?

Btw, I do constantly misspeak and say "Palestine was never a country" even though I consider themselves to be a country today. I also always say that Palestine and Israel were invented at the same time, and that they both have the right to exist. Someone needs to explain that to Palestinians (and you guys) though.

Since we are talking about the past, why did Obama say he would repeal the patriot act then sign to renew the patriot act in 2010? I guess people lie huh?

So this is your response to me asking "Why did Israel give the majority of their land away for peace with Jordan and Egypt, if they don't want peace?" You imply that Israel lied when they signed that peace treaty in 1973? Israel, Jordan and Egypt are still at peace (and arguably allied right now, Jordan has been pro-West since the West invented Jordan for a buddy of their's) 40 yrs later. Egypt still has the Sinai 40 yrs later. So how did Israel lie?

LOL quote me 'cry(ing) "Zionist agent" over and over' or you're building strawmen rather than even attempting to debate in a rational manner and you're a baldfaced liar to boot for putting words in my mouth (and a rude one, too).

You're right, I confused you with other ppl on this thread calling me a Zionist agent, I apologize. But, can you still respond to the substance of my argument? You gave us this whole speech about former colonies British declaring their independence, what was your point? I don't mean that in an insulting way, I don't see how this criticizes or supports anyone in this conflict.

Succinctly put. I wouldn't say maybemaybenot is a IDF troll/shill/asset whatever, just somebody acting 100% consistent with a troll/shill/asset whatever. Somebody fulfilling the role, perhaps without picking up their check. One thing I won't call the OP is a Ron Paul troll/shill/asset whatever.

I'm obsessed with this issue because it blows my mind to see libertarians and Ron Paul supporters (lol including Ron Paul himself) turn upside down and into pro-Islamist fascist socialists by acting like everything Israel does is a horrible crime, and absolutely ignoring and anything the Muslims do to Israel. You ppl just hold Muslims to zero standards, everything they do is par for the course. The right to self-defense is inherent to libertarianism. The fact that Israel commits horrible crimes doesn't change the fact that they have the right to defend themselves. Lol the Muslims are worse than Israel by every single standard, just look at what the Assads have done in Syria and the ppl who have run Egypt. Why is Israel the illegal one?

I condemn Zionism, and every law that treats ppl differently in every single country. I'm a libertarian and an atheist first, and my dream is for a peaceful, large Jewish community in the Holy Land, even if its only 25% of the population (and it'll never be that low regardless). I don't want governmental involvement in religion. But Palestine and the Muslims are not offering this religiously neutral, peaceful paradise. I completely oppose funding other countries' militaries (even though I'm emotionally torn since I have relationships involved here), but those of you who want to single out Israel specifically are just crazy. If anything, Israel and South Korea (and maybe others I can't think of) are the countries that actually deserve and need it. Zionism does not negate Israel's right to exist and defend itself.

Why aren't you ppl calling out Palestine and the Muslim countries for doing every single thing you condemn Israel for doing? I just don't get the double standards. I love the US and Israel, and I'll criticize them all day. But if someone said we couldn't respond to 9/11, I'd tell them to go f*ck themselves. Its the same thing. Lol I hate the Rothschilds just like anyone else, I just don't know why you ppl criticize Israel more than the US or the UK because of the Rothschilds. Its the same shit, its the same military empire and their satellite countries. Yeah, the Rothschilds helped create Israel, and rich elitists helped create every country.

If Israel wants peace they should actually give basic rights to the Palestinians like we eventually did with Native Americans.

But Palestine and Israel were invented at the same time. There isn't some inherent right of Palestine to merge with Israel. Its just a myth. Before the British took over the land, no one was talking about Palestine. Does Jordan have to grant citizenship rights to every former Ottoman country too? Does Syria have to grant citizenship rights to Israelis? Seriously, answer these questions.

The Muslims kicked out even more Jews than the Muslims kicked out by Israel, in a war the Muslims started. And in Israel, Muslims actually have citizenship, vote, go to Islamic public schools (if they choose), everything. Meanwhile, Palestine executes ppl for selling land to Jews, they allow polygamous child marriages (which is basically slavery), and PA leaders (the supposed moderates) say on Arab television that Jews eat Muslim babies on Passover, and PA leaders name streets after suicide bombers that killed innocents.

I think it's time to try the kryptonite on SuperIsraeliTroll. Yo, maybenot. Tell us a tale about a ship named U.S.S. Liberty.

And do the US's crimes mean we can't defend ourselves? I would not be surprised if Israel intentionally attacked the USS Liberty to frame the Arabs (it was during the Six-Day War), but then they got caught instantly. Seriously. But to say Israel just wanted to declare war on the US, that's retarded, and that's what some ppl are saying (those are just meaningless conspiracy theories, because they don't accuse a liar/conspirator of trying to gain anything). I would not be shocked if Israel withheld information about 9/11 in order to get the US all pissed about Islamic terrorism, that would make too much sense. Just like the US should have given Israel information about Saddam's nuclear program in the 1980's, but Saddam was our buddy (and Jonathan Pollard totally belongs in a prison cell for giving classified info to Israel, and for ruining Jews' opportunities in defense/intelligence). But the US still has the right to defend itself, right?

Maybe if the Israelis didn't keep the Palestinians in a concentration camp, they would consider peace.

This represents basic ignorance about the history here. Palestine and the Arabs attacked Israel a dozen times BEFORE the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. To this day, they reject deals for 90%+ of the West Bank and Gaza. Palestine never even counter-offers. They just say they want all the land. You're just ignoring everything the Palestinians have said and done for sixty yrs, and replacing it with a fiction that Western liberals made up.

And btw, before 2000, there was much more freedom of movement between the territories and Israel, the vast majority of Palestinians worked in Israel. But then Palestine decided to murder 500 civilians in response to a 2000 peace treaty for 95% of the West Bank and Gaza, and the only thing that stopped the suicide bombings (to this day) was the horrible fence/wall/barrier that's destroyed Palestinian lives completely. In fact, Israel has offered 100% of the West Bank and Gaza, and East Jerusalem, or Jerusalem as an int'l city (different offers), and Palestine still responded with "Nope, we get all the land." So no, to say Palestine hates Israel because of the occupation is just total ignorance about the entire conflict.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Well if I had understood at that time, the cob up your butt about the word "country", I surely would have dropped this thread about 10 posts earlier. The standard libertarian foreign policy is, "Who cares? MYOB!".

 

[twomp]

So this is your response to me asking "Why did Israel give the majority of their land away for peace with Jordan and Egypt, if they don't want peace?" You imply that Israel lied when they signed that peace treaty in 1973? Israel, Jordan and Egypt are still at peace (and arguably allied right now, Jordan has been pro-West since the West invented Jordan for a buddy of their's) 40 yrs later. Egypt still has the Sinai 40 yrs later. So how did Israel lie?

See, this is why people shouldn't argue with trolls. They WILL NEVER see your side. It's like arguing with a child about Christmas. I said, it's hard to imagine Israel wants peace when they are bombing children. You reply with, well in 1973, they did this, and in 1947 they did this....

LIKE WHO CARES WHAT THEY DID 50 YEARS AGO! A couple months ago they were bombing children and simultaneously claiming they want peace and your best argument is what happened in 1973? Then you go patting yourself in the back then you cry one more time for Israel because you know, the holocaust.

 

[Miss Annie]

Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not make them a troll. He is called a troll because he has a differing opinion, well let me tell ya..... Ya'll are not the epitome of open mindedness around here.

Take a look at the ISIS threads, if someone believes that ISIS has the capability of carrying out a threat, everyone sits around like a group of eight year olds pointing the finger saying "lookie lookie he's scared". The Alinsky style tactic of ridicule is alive and well and working on this board.

 

[maybemaybenot]

See, this is why people shouldn't argue with trolls. They WILL NEVER see your side. It's like arguing with a child about Christmas. I said, it's hard to imagine Israel wants peace when they are bombing children. You reply with, well in 1973, they did this, and in 1947 they did this....

LIKE WHO CARES WHAT THEY DID 50 YEARS AGO! A couple months ago they were bombing children and simultaneously claiming they want peace and your best argument is what happened in 1973? Then you go patting yourself in the back then you cry one more time for Israel because you know, the holocaust.

Lol so now you don't care about history? Ppl here are ignorant. They constantly say that its about the West Bank and Gaza, when its not. Palestine has always said they want all the land. Your little myth that Israel loves war is outrageous. Israel gave away the majority of their land for peace in 1973, but Egypt/Jordan didn't want the West Bank and Gaza (which would have made it 3/4's of Israel's land, for peace with Palestine). Palestine wouldn't sign a deal for the West Bank and Gaza, and neither would the other Muslim countries (except CIA-controlled Iran). To this day, when offered 90% of the West Bank and Gaza, they say "No, we want all the land." Gaza overwhemingly elected Hamas, which has promised to kill every Jew. And again, for all you ignorant ppl who apologize for Gazans' genocidal ambition by bringing up the occupation, this was their position before the occupation, that's why invaded Israel repeatedly before the occupation, and that's why they won't sign a peace treaty to end the occupation today.

Well if I had understood at that time, the cob up your butt about the word "country", I surely would have dropped this thread about 10 posts earlier. The standard libertarian foreign policy is, "Who cares? MYOB!".

Lol well words have meaning, and "country" is an important word in this topic. So now you're admitting that when you said the following, you didn't intend any meaning behind it? It just means nothing?

WOW, you just steal some folks' country and what thanks do you get? Maybe the Palestinians learned from the Native American's experience.

What does this mean? It was Turkish land, now it wasn't. So you're admitting now that this statement had no meaning at all, you just fell asleep at the keyboard and that came out of it?

All of the countries were invented by the British and French after WWI/WWII. Why is Israel more illegal? Its a very basic question. The British and French handed land to dictators in Iraq/Syria/Jordan/Palestine/Lebanon/Saudi Arabia/Egypt... but your problem is with the democracy where even Muslims get to vote? Did the land being renamed Israel, and the granting of the right to vote and other basic rights, mean "their land was stolen," even if they were still owning and living on the same land? Israel only kicked out ppl (horribly, illegally and unforgivably) when Muslim countries kicked out even more Jews (but no one cares), in a war started by a Muslim invasion.

 

[maybemaybenot]

Whether it was or wasn't a country is immaterial. The Arab Palestinians had homes, and orchards where "Israel" stands today. They were kicked off their land at the barrel of a gun, and are now essentially inmates in the biggest open air prison in the world in Gaza.

Also, they are repeated victims of brutal Zionist aggression as was the case recently when over 3,000 Palestinians were killed - most civilians. Women and children. Schools and hospitals were intentionally target by the Zionist regime. All this slaughter over three dead Jews in the West Bank. It was totally absurd.

Imagine if the US attacked Mexico because some kids who went across the border to Tijuana got killed in a drug related crossfire. Can you imagine the outrage if the US just started capping Mexican women and children and blowing up Mexican hospitals?

But Israel gets a free pass because their ancestors suffered a six trillion holocaust or whatever the numbers been revised upwards to today so they can continue committing war crimes and extorting money through reparations.

So what do you wanna do to solve Gaza's "open-air prison" problem? They ask for it. They start wars. Israel has offered 100% of the West Bank and Gaza BEFORE Gaza invaded Israel in 1967. Is Gaza allowed to endlessly attack Israel? Gaza overwhelmingly elected Hamas, which has promised to kill every Jew. Don't you think they should sign one of the fifty offers for peace already? For ALL OF GAZA? If they wanted to be out of their open-air prison more than they wanted to kill every Jew, they wouldn't be in an open-air prison. Your big rant just ignores Arab invasions and Arab promises of genocide. You just don't care, you expect Israel to act as if they're not being attacked.

In just the last month, Egypt offered land to quadruple the size of Gaza, and allow refugees to move there. They turned it down. You know why? They would have had to make peace with Israel. They wouldn't do it. In fact, now they vilify Egypt as their Zionist enemy for trying to get a peace treaty signed.

And you ignore the fact that Muslims kicked out more Jews than the Jews kicked out Muslims. So if that's your whole problem with Israel... then you have a double standards problem.

 

[twomp]

Lol so now you don't care about history? Ppl here are ignorant. They constantly say that its about the West Bank and Gaza, when its not. Palestine has always said they want all the land. Your little myth that Israel loves war is outrageous. Israel gave away the majority of their land for peace in 1973, but Egypt/Jordan didn't want the West Bank and Gaza (which would have made it 3/4's of Israel's land, for peace with Palestine). Palestine wouldn't sign a deal for the West Bank and Gaza, and neither would the other Muslim countries (except CIA-controlled Iran). To this day, when offered 90% of the West Bank and Gaza, they say "No, we want all the land." Gaza overwhemingly elected Hamas, which has promised to kill every Jew. And again, for all you ignorant ppl who apologize for Gazans' genocidal ambition by bringing up the occupation, this was their position before the occupation, that's why invaded Israel repeatedly before the occupation, and that's why they won't sign a peace treaty to end the occupation today.

See, you proved my point exactly. There is NOTHING anyone can say to you to stop your cheerleading of ISRAEL because you are an Israeli shill. Your argument is weak. It is like my friend saying, hey your car is dirty, why don't you wash your car? Then me saying, "wtf you talking about? I washed it in 1996! I do wash my car." Which is historically accurate but has nothing to do with the current situation. But that's okay for you though because you know, the holocaust.

 

[maybemaybenot]

See, you proved my point exactly. There is NOTHING anyone can say to you to stop your cheerleading of ISRAEL because you are an Israeli shill. Your argument is weak. It is like my friend saying, hey your car is dirty, why don't you wash your car? Then me saying, "wtf you talking about? I washed it in 1996! I do wash my car." Which is historically accurate but has nothing to do with the current situation. But that's okay for you though because you know, the holocaust.

I'm not just talking about the past. TODAY, the majority of Gazans are against any peace treaty whatsoever. TODAY. Do you agree with that, do you refute that? And a lot of ignorant ppl say its because of the occupation, hence I point out that they also wanted all the land before the occupation. And then you complain that I talk about history too much.

And again, you're bringing up the Holocaust over and over, not me. Do you not acknowledge the fact that Palestinians (and especially Gazans) oppose any peace treaty with Israel?

Btw, are you saying Israel DID want peace in 1973, when they gave away the majority of their land for peace, AND offered 97% of the West Bank and Gaza but were turned down? But then you claim Israel is disingenuous today, when they repeatedly offer to complete the 1973 peace treaty and give back 90% of the West Bank and Gaza? Lol and then you claim Gaza is disingenuous when they say they want to kill all the Jews. Its hilarious, you accuse both sides of wanting the opposite of what they say they want, and accuse the ppl who offer a peace treaty of secretly opposing it when its the other side rejecting it.

 

[twomp]

I'm not just talking about the past. TODAY, the majority of Gazans are against any peace treaty whatsoever. TODAY. Do you agree with that, do you refute that? And a lot of ignorant ppl say its because of the occupation, hence I point out that they also wanted all the land before the occupation. And then you complain that I talk about history too much.

And again, you're bringing up the Holocaust over and over, not me. Do you not acknowledge the fact that Palestinians (and especially Gazans) oppose any peace treaty with Israel?

Btw, are you saying Israel DID want peace in 1973, when they gave away the majority of their land for peace, AND offered 97% of the West Bank and Gaza but were turned down? But then you claim Israel is disingenuous today, when they repeatedly offer to complete the 1973 peace treaty and give back 90% of the West Bank and Gaza? Lol and then you claim Gaza is disingenuous when they say they want to kill all the Jews. Its hilarious, you accuse both sides of wanting the opposite of what they say they want, and accuse the ppl who offer a peace treaty of secretly opposing it when its the other side rejecting it.

You like to repeat the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again so I shall do the same. Israel does not want peace because countries that want peace, don't go around bombing children. Unless of course if it's Israel, Israel is allowed to bomb children for peace because you know, the holocaust.

 

[DFF]

You just don't care, you expect Israel to act as if they're not being attacked.

Only Israel can slaughter thousands and claim they're a victim. Please.

It's pretty obvious to anyone with an IQ above 80 who's only been casually paying attention to the Palestinian situation that the Israelis are oppressing them in a most brutal fashion.

And it's not just the once every few years splatterfest that the IDF unleashes on Gaza, but the fact that Israel practices torture year round (yeah, the great "democracy" in the ME tortures people).

All in all, the Israeli regime is ugly and it's evil, and the world would be better off without it.

 

[maybemaybenot]

Only Israel can slaughter thousands and claim they're a victim. Please.

It's pretty obvious to anyone with an IQ above 80 who's only been casually paying attention to the Palestinian situation that the Israelis are oppressing them in a most brutal fashion.

And it's not just the once every few years splatterfest that the IDF unleashes on Gaza, but the fact that Israel practices torture year round (yeah, the great "democracy" in the ME tortures people).

All in all, the Israeli regime is ugly and it's evil, and the world would be better off without it.

What would you do differently if you were Israel?

Do you at least blame Hamas for the death of children being used as human shields? Are you saying Israel can't hit a school with weapons in it? Hamas' HQ is under a hospital, Israel can't even touch it. You think that's okay? You think Hamas is allowed to build tunnels to reach Israel? Its easy to criticize from half a world away, but what would you do?

You'd be content with rockets flying into your country? Every structure in Israel has a bomb shelter underneath, and Israelis were using them multiple times a day before Israel kicked Gaza's ass for the most recent time. Gaza started firing those rockets in response to Israel's existence, they've been open and honest.Do you honestly think Gaza would stop attacking Israel if they left the West Bank and Gaza? Answer this.

Only ignorant Westerners say this is about the occupation. Palestine openly wants all the land, and promises to get it. You think Israel should pretend that's not the case and just let Hamas destroy them?

 

[twomp]

Only Israel can slaughter thousands and claim they're a victim. Please.

It's pretty obvious to anyone with an IQ above 80 who's only been casually paying attention to the Palestinian situation that the Israelis are oppressing them in a most brutal fashion.

And it's not just the once every few years splatterfest that the IDF unleashes on Gaza, but the fact that Israel practices torture year round (yeah, the great "democracy" in the ME tortures people).

All in all, the Israeli regime is ugly and it's evil, and the world would be better off without it.

That's okay, Israel is allowed to do that because you know, the holocaust.

 

[Dr.3D]

Only ignorant Westerners say this is about the occupation. Palestine openly wants all the land, and promises to get it. You think Israel should pretend that's not the case and just let Hamas destroy them?

Oh come on, you know as well as I do that Palestinians say it's about the occupation too. Who do you think you are talking to?

 

[maybemaybenot]

Oh come on, you know as well as I do that Palestinians say it's about the occupation too. Who do you think you are talking to?

But its total doublespeak! PA spokesmen take different positions when speaking different languages, and the "occupation of Palestine" refers to all the land, even though its intended to mislead Westerners. I don't want to downplay the ppl who do want two states, but the majority and govt position is for all the land, and ppl just ignore this. Saying Palestine wants to end the occupation only is like saying Israel wants to take over all of Jordan because a bunch of Orthodox ppl want to. It just distorts the entire conflict.

I'm not saying they don't hate the occupation, I hate it too, and I hate the Israeli politicians who want to keep it this way forever (which would be apartheid, and therefore it kindof is apartheid because some crazy right wingers are sabotaging peace efforts to keep it this way). But its not the major issue. If the occupation was the major issue, Palestine would have accepted one of the dozen peace treaty offers to end the occupation, or one of the peace treaties before the occupation even began. Clearly the main priority is destroying Israel, because they keep picking the destruction of Israel over peace treaties to end the occupation, and they keep saying they'll keep doing it (if speaking Arabic).

 

[twomp]

But its total doublespeak! PA spokesmen take different positions when speaking different languages, and the "occupation of Palestine" translate to all the land to many ppl. I don't want to downplay the ppl who do want two states, but the majority and govt position is for all the land, and ppl just ignore this. Saying Palestine wants to end the occupation only is like saying Israel wants to take over all of Jordan because a bunch of Orthodox ppl want to. It just distorts the entire conflict.

Bombing children then claiming to be the victim then on top of all that, sending you and your co-workers here to try and change hearts and minds distorts the entire conflict.

 

[DFF]

Do you honestly think Gaza would stop attacking Israel if they left the West Bank and Gaza? Answer this.

Kids throwing stones at the IDF soldiers doesn't justify Israel retaliating the way that they do; it's overkill, to the extreme. So much so, that it's really ethnic cleansing. The Israelis are trying to slaughter all of the Palestinians. This is the end game, a Palestinian Holocaust.

As far as what Israel should do differently...they should apologize to the Palestinians, and to the other Arabs, for all the trouble they've caused over the last 60 years, they should allow the Palestinians to return home, and they should pay them reparations for all the suffering and pain thats been inflicted on them.

 

[maybemaybenot]

Bombing children then claiming to be the victim then on top of all that, sending you and your co-workers here to try and change hearts and minds distorts the entire conflict.

Wait, so you're saying Palestine doesn't bomb Israeli kids, while storing their own weapons in schools? Come on, answer this.

Btw, you acknowledge that Palestine wants to destroy Israel more than they want the West Bank and Gaza right? Because you didn't even quote/respond to that part. Lol the whole key to the conflict. Israel supports two states. Palestine doesn't. You just ignore it.

 

[maybemaybenot]

Kids throwing stones at the IDF soldiers doesn't justify Israel retaliating the way that they do; it's overkill, to the extreme. So much so, that it's really ethnic cleansing. The Israelis are trying to slaughter all of the Palestinians. This is the end game, a Palestinian Holocaust.

As far as what Israel should do differently...first off, they should apologize to the Palestinians, and to the other Arabs, for all the trouble they've caused over the last 60 years, they should allow the Palestinians to return home, and they should pay them reparations for all the suffering and pain thats been inflicted on them.

If Israel wanted to commit genocide in the occupied territories, then why did they offer 95% of the territories in 2000?

So again, you ignore Palestinian rockets flying into Israeli territory. Before you said it was about 3 teenagers, now you're saying its about rock throwing. Its just insulting. You just ignore Palestinian aggression, and of course you ignore the fact that Palestinian suicide bombers would still be murdering hundreds of civilians if not for the IDF. By saying Israel should simply apologize and cease their military actions, you're saying they should LET Gaza kill every Jew, just like they've been trying for decades. YOu know this, right? Or do you not trust the terrorists who promise to kill every Jew?

I have very simple questions for you to distort and/or ignore: If Israel wanted to commit genocide in the occupied territories, then why did they offer 95% of the territories in 2000? And even more before 2000? And why didn't they ethnically cleanse the Sinai, why did they gave every inch of it back to Egypt, just like they offered every inch of Gaza but Egypt turned it down? Do you deny that Gaza actually would commit genocide if they could (hence they voted for Hamas, which promises it)?