'Nazi Grandma,' sentenced for denying Holocaust, goes to prison

[H_H]

This definition involves the use of a network of gas chambers and cremation ovens to achieve this goal.

Also roller coasters. Don't forget the roller coasters. Literal roller coasters of Death.

To ride a roller coaster of Death as your last act on Earth, only to then be made into a lamp shade. Sad.

 

[TheTexan]

Also roller coasters. Don't forget the roller coasters. Literal roller coasters of Death.

To ride a roller coaster of Death as your last act on Earth, only to then be made into a lamp shade. Sad.

That's pretty good engineering to automate it that well.

I wouldn't ever drive an Audi or BMW, but I can see why they have a reputation for high quality.

 

[juleswin]

I believe you. I make those tyos all the time, that's why I asked and it's no bother I'm just not feeling great today and I'm eating.



A bit of both, really. I believe it was mostly A but there were a few death camps in Poland (I think:o) that would certainly qualify for answering B. I guess my answer falls mostly to A with a few exceptions. When it comes to the exceptions, it's my suspicion that only the people involved and their superiors knew exactly what was going on there. That's my very limited take on what happened with knowledge I've picked up watching documentaries.

Gotcha but the problem is that there's really no in between in that question. Its either you believe the Nazi planned out and/or carried out this systematic killing of Jews and other undesirables and built the killing mechanisms to achieve this "final solution" or they didn't.

One option makes u a holocaust denier in the true meaning of the word and the other makes you a believer.

 

[Suzanimal]

Gotcha but the problem is that there's really no in between in that question. Its either you believe the Nazi planned out and/or carried out this systematic killing of Jews and other undesirables and built the killing mechanisms to achieve this "final solution" or they didn't.

One option makes u a holocaust denier in the true meaning of the word and the other makes you a believer.

Well, that's what I think. I think that at a few camps option B was true to a limited degree but for the most part, I believe option A.

 

[juleswin]

Also roller coasters. Don't forget the roller coasters. Literal roller coasters of Death.

To ride a roller coaster of Death as your last act on Earth, only to then be made into a lamp shade. Sad.

How can you question a survivor? if one said Hitler hated Chinese people, then you better believe it. The more cartoonish the method the more believable it is. I watch a lot of videos with interview of US generals and survivors saying how nobody would believe what the Nazis did to their enemies. A majority of Germans at the time didn't believe the stories but through a series of education and Hollywood movies, most Americans and Germans have come to believe the official story.

Even alt media type who question everything from vaccines, to chemtrails to 9/11 believe that the US govt this one time in this one area did not lie to us.

 

[H_H]

Gotcha but the problem is that there's really no in between in that question. Its either you believe the Nazi planned out and/or carried out this systematic killing of Jews and other undesirables and built the killing mechanisms to achieve this "final solution" or they didn't.

It sounded like Suz expressed just such an in-between position. Maybe you think she's wrong, but it seemed pretty reasonable and understandable to me. "Mostly, they were just in concentration camps and maybe some happened to die, due to whatever: food and resource shortage involved in losing a war, etc. But then in some of the camps, the camp bosses may have started killing large numbers of the prisoners intentionally." Is that really so hard to envision? Seems like a reasonable scenario to me. Maybe there's not a whole lot of evidence of these rogue camp directors' existence, but you have to admit it's not as if the idea is incoherent or logically impossible.

One option makes u a holocaust denier in the true meaning of the word and the other makes you a believer.

These are just labels by crazy zealots and dishonest liars. Are we caring about the lying labels of dishonest, crazy people now?

 

[H_H]

How can you question a survivor?

With the same squiggly mark at the end of a sentence that I use with everyone else.

 

[juleswin]

It sounded like Suz expressed just such an in-between position. Maybe you think she's wrong, but it seemed pretty reasonable and understandable to me. "Mostly, they were just in concentration camps and maybe some happened to die, due to whatever: food and resource shortage involved in losing a war, etc. But then in some of the camps, the camp bosses may have started killing large numbers of the prisoners intentionally." Is that really so hard to envision? Seems like a reasonable scenario to me. Maybe there's not a whole lot of evidence of these rogue camp directors' existence, but you have to admit it's not as if the idea is incoherent or logically impossible.

These are just labels by crazy zealots and dishonest liars. Are we caring about the lying labels of dishonest, crazy people now?

Yes, I see how she came up with her answer and I now I think about it, it is a reasonable answer. I was really trying to see if she believed in the final solution, i.e. a deliberate plan by the Nazis to kill the Jews and undesirables(not house and then they died in camp) aka the holocaust

 

[Anti Globalist]

Didn't Pat Buchanan question the legitimacy of the Holocaust saying that the number of jews killed was less than 6 million?

 

[dannno]

Didn't Pat Buchanan question the legitimacy of the Holocaust saying that the number of jews killed was less than 6 million?

In a March 17, 1990, syndicated column, Buchanan wrote that it would have been impossible for Jews to die in the gas chambers of the Treblinka death camp, and referred to a “so-called Holocaust survivor syndrome,” which he described as involving “group fantasies of martyrdom and heroics.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/12/pat-buchanans-holocaust-d_n_202224.html

 

[Tywysog Cymru]

WWII is America's most justifiable war (Japan attacked us, Germany then declared war). The American people didn't need more justification. Why would fabricating the holocaust even be necessary to justify the Allied war effort. Also, you'd think that after 70 years there would be a few whistleblowers.

 

[Occam's Banana]

DISCLAIMER: I have no particular opinion on this matter one way or the other.

WWII is America's most justifiable war (Japan attacked us, Germany then declared war). The American people didn't need more justification.

As far as I am aware, the Nazi treatment of Jews was not invoked as casus belli prior to US entry into WW2.

That did not start happening until after the war was over, when it began to be used as an "after the fact" justification.

(And IIRC, the Roosevelt administration even had a ship full of Jewish refugees sent back to the Nazis with the Jews still on it. That's more than just a little difficult to reconcile with a "save the Jews" policy ...)

Why would fabricating the holocaust even be necessary to justify the Allied war effort.

Given the above, it would not have been necessary for that purpose.

Thus, if the Holocaust was indeed fabricated, it would have been for some other reason(s) - with post facto justification for having entered into the war being a "side effect" of this.

 

[H_H]

Why would fabricating the holocaust even be necessary to justify the Allied war effort?

Do you understand the state religion? Probably you have never thought deeply about it. It's designed so that you don't. But who is Satan in the current state religion? Answer: Hitler. Can someone be Satan if they just happened to fight a war that was a little bit aggressive? Come on, everybody's done that.

No, you need something more. A powerful story, rising to mythic proportions. His evil has to be unheard-of-ly unimaginable. He has to have done things that don't even make any sense, they're so gruesome and evil. Also, it's very, very important to whom he is supposed to have done these evils.

Control the state religion of the world's most powerful land, control their collective guilt, and thou shalt control the world.

 

[H_H]

As far as I am aware, the Nazi treatment of Jews was not invoked as casus belli prior to US entry into WW2.

Indeed, it was not.

That did not start happening until after the war was over, when it began to be used as an "after the fact" justification.

Yes, this is exactly how it happened.

(And IIRC, the Roosevelt administration even had a ship full of Jewish refugees sent back to the Nazis with the Jews still on it. That's more than just a little difficult to reconcile with a "save the Jews" policy ...)

You recall correctly.

Thus, if the Holocaust was indeed fabricated, it would have been for some other reason(s)

And whatever that reason may be, it must be very important to some very important people, because it sure is emphasized an awful lot.

Luckily, the upcoming generation, Generation Zyklon, just LOLs at these claims. They make holocaust jokes. Very funny ones. They don't believe any of it. They have Google. And even if they did believe it, they wouldn't care. They'd just laugh about it. That's how deep the problem is with this upcoming generation.

Never Forget, AMIRITE? Ha, ha!

 

[Danke]

 

[Raginfridus]

Yeah, when official history reads like missions from Return to Castle Wolfenstein, you've got a glitch in the matrix somewhere. Basically. Irving has been to prison for his research and still makes no apologies, and its not like he's a household name, unlike David Duke or somebody (whose books write themselves as of late).

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Essentially, all I want to know is which of the 2 definitions below closely matches up to your definition.

A) The death of millions of Jewish people at the hand of Nazi German govt during their stay in concentration camps.
B) The Holocaust was the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of millions of Jewish people (for the sake of argument 3m up to 6m). This definition involves the use of a network of gas chambers and cremation ovens to achieve this goal.

I would go with Option B.

To my understanding, the opposite position relies on the bald assumption that the documentary and oral evidence was forged/coerced.

 

[Suzanimal]

She didn't believe the "wrong truth." The Holocaust happened. The issue is she has the natural right to be completely wrong.

And, before we come out for her too much we should be aware it seems like she was a literal, original Nazi as her husband was.

To be fair, you could pin that on a lot of people in Germany who lived during that time and she was only around 14 when the war ended. Hell, Mr A's great uncle and his mother's cousins were technically Nazis. Join or die, those were their choices.

Free speech is more important to me than whether I think the woman is right or wrong.

 

[Suzanimal]

WWII is America's most justifiable war (Japan attacked us, Germany then declared war). The American people didn't need more justification. Why would fabricating the holocaust even be necessary to justify the Allied war effort. Also, you'd think that after 70 years there would be a few whistleblowers.

I dunno and I never really gave it much thought until recently. Whilst I was on hiatus earlier this year I got stuck watching educational television with Mr A and ended up getting sucked into the Nazi documentaries on Netflix. The last one I watched was about the Nuremberg Trials and a few things didn't sit right with me. BTW, this documentary was certainly one sided and when I watch or hear something like that my first inclination is to try to remember the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Here are the most glaring issues I had with the Nuremberg Trials.

1) Goering. From what I learned of him as a man, I don't think he would've been down with the death camps.
2) Hess. He was insane. They knew he was insane and he was tricked into testifying. Not cool, IMO.
3) Speer got off with jail but his subordinate hung, I think. Can't remember if he committed suicide.

I'm not saying any of these guys were what I would consider decent people but I don't believe they got a fair trial and that doesn't sit right with me. I also thought Goering made some very good points, not only in his testimony, but also in the comments he made in court mocking the process.

 

[Suzanimal]

I can't find the exact quote from the Nuremberg documentary I watched but during the trial Goering pointed out the hypocrisy of the people judging him.

For stealing art, he was judged by the French -
For wars of aggression and expanding empire, the British - oh, boy
and
For human rights violations.......the Russians. *side eye*

The joke writes itself.