Musk Advocates to Double H-1B Visas

[Madison320]

Profit, at what cost?

Right now, people are profiting from the sale of aborted baby parts.

Like I said, just ban profits.

Or nationalize big business. Just the bad ones.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Madison320]

I'm not going to say there isn't a tertiary agenda by the Indian government. I'm not paid enough to know such things. But whatever their agenda, they are absolutely not the same situation as we have with the southern border. Musk is right: H1-Bs need to be fixed, but they're not the substance of the border problem. I am absolutely baffled why the Right suddenly considers this a hill worth dying on. It feels like political sabotage, actually, because this will not play out in the long-run. H1-Bs are not holding up your liquor stores and whatever job displacement may be caused by fraud or crappy administration within immigration can be fixed by properly enforcing the rules and having rules that stop fraud. And if someone hired from overseas actually is better for the job... then so be it. Real competition is a core American value. If you (generic) lost your job because an Indian was (truly) better qualified ... stop being a loser and be the better-qualified candidate. That's America 101!!!

I totally agree. The only thing they need to fix is to make sure the government doesn't make it more or less expensive to hire foreigners. I've heard there's tax incentives to use H1-Bs which is stupid.

The thing most everyone here is missing is how overregulated and overtaxed our businesses already is. We're running a trillion dollar a year trade deficits because we can't compete. We need to reduce taxes and regulations not pile on more of them.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Like I said, just ban profits.

Or nationalize big business. Just the bad ones.

What could possibly go wrong?

Economic success is downstream of culture.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Lol, professors professing.

I just wanted to point out I like that Invisible Man better than our Invisible Man.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

...
The thing most everyone here is missing is how overregulated and overtaxed our businesses already is. We're running a trillion dollar a year trade deficits because we can't compete. We need to reduce taxes and regulations not pile on more of them.

That is absolutely true. In California, every Jan 1st, a whole slough of new laws go into effect, many revolving around employment.

But no one is missing that, it's just not very relevant other than being an over arching principle when talking about a specific issue. Many regulations and laws can be avoided. Businesses do not have to import workers and go through a visa process. They can avoid that. They can't avoid the myriad of other laws that keep being piled on, with no complaints from anyone.

It's fine to jump up and say "hey, we already have too many laws" every time a new law or modification is proposed, but that would only have an impact if there was enough opposition to the law in the first place.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

...
Interestingly enough, the battle lines have been similar to the previous Israel battles on the right. Many of the same people that support Israel in everything they do, and scream "anti-Semitism" at every opportunity, are the same people who are now defending H1Bs and screaming "racism" at every opportunity.

For example, here is a guy who has been very active attacking those who have problems with the H1B program.

The next day, it's about Israel:

https://x.com/ToddHagopian/status/1873800031519859031

 

[Anti Federalist]

He's right.


https://x.com/JackClassic55/status/1873776594747351074

 

[Brian4Liberty]

https://x.com/USAB4L/status/1873812625941029270

 

[Anti Federalist]

https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1873767236399210898

 

[ClaytonB]

Profit is not profit when you end up as the richest man in the dunghill because you sold your home to be used as one.
True profit has many dimensions other than "number in bank account go up".

Exactly -- this is the difference between mainstream (garbage) economics, and Austrian economics. In mainstream economics, profit is a number; in Austrian economics, profit is inherently psychological (subjective) -- "one man's trash is (literally) another man's treasure." But again, the RINO meatheads at the helm of the R-party have no patience for such pencil-necked academic subtlety. They're at the helm, and that fact alone proves that they're right about everything... "if we're so wrong, how come we're in charge and running everything?" This is the same carnal blindness that has put the eyes out of every ruler who is not subject to the Gospel kingdom. The ideals, values and arguments that these men champion as the path forward are nothing but reworded Marxist talking-points that were whispered in their ears by the worm-tongued neoCONs.

We agree there has to be a border, and the rule of law must be enforced. The COSMIC-SCALE ELEPHANT in the room that NOBODY will talk about is welfare and government handouts of all kinds. The dopey RINOs won't talk about them because "that's a losing issue for us", the neoCONs won't talk about them because that's their wheelhouse, and the rest of the Right won't talk about them because they're being spun in circles like circus seals by the narratives spun by the neoCON string-pullers. Kill the elephant and your border will be instantly secure, without the need to build one more inch of border fence. I'm not opposed to the border fence if it has to be there, but the real reason that you need a fence is because of the giant fountains of freebies sloshing out of the DC Swamp. If you really want a secure border so bad, tear down the welfare-state! (including the MIC/corporate-welfare-state!!)

 

[ClaytonB]

Musk stepped on a land mine, and instead of contemplating his next move he doubled and tripled down, threw logic and facts out the windows, and became emotional about it, especially since he was being ratioed on his own platform.

Interestingly enough, the battle lines have been similar to the previous Israel battles on the right. Many of the same people that support Israel in everything they do, and scream "anti-Semitism" at every opportunity, are the same people who are now defending H1Bs and screaming "racism" at every opportunity.

I don't think people who oppose H1Bs are racist. I just think that American companies have every right to hire anybody they want, including from overseas, including to pay their relocation and help them through naturalization, etc. The real problem is not that Americans are being put out of work by H1Bs, the real problem is that Americans have become Europeanized (long-term goal of the globalist Left achieved!) and so American workers want Europe-style protections to pad their paychecks as though they're Alaskan high-voltage powerline workers, while working a French bureaucrat's work-week (noon to 2, every other Tuesday). Why should American workers have such a cushy situation? Is it because we have so many aircraft carriers? Is that not just Rome 2.0, the Old World imperial mindset which America was founded in repudiation of?!?

 

[ClaytonB]

To a certain extent. I've said it before on this forum and I'll say it again, humans are not widgets. Competition and free markets are applicable when talking about selling and trading widgets.

But an imported "widget" from a foreign nation does not require:

- A job
- Housing
- Food
- Transportation, vehicles, roads
- Medical care
- Education
- Govt support

This is all irrelevant. Whether humans are "widgets" or not, the point of free market competition is that people are born free to make any lawful choice that does not violate the basic rights of others, including who to hire/fire/etc. So, if XYZ Corp. wants to hire somebody from China or India (or whatever), that's their American right, as an American company. I realize that there are some higher-order strategic considerations that can come into play but the American way of defeating the Old World habits of armed theft through military means is to just outcompete the bastards (unless they want to fight for real, in which case, kick their asses.) We did it for 250 years and now, all of a sudden, we somehow can't manage. Americans suddenly need French labor protectionism or something. It's pathetic and disgusting. And to see this crap flying on Ron Paul Forums, of all places, is just embarrassing...

 

[ClaytonB]

They are not better for the job, everyone who deals with them knows how incompetent they are and anyone who knows anything about India knows that cheating for degrees is their mainstream culture.

I work with them. You're simply wrong, not just in individual cases, across the board.

The few superior ones don't give a fig for meritocracy and seek to drive out the natives and take over any place they can.

Again, there may be operatives embedded within the H1B programs, I would assume there are. Perhaps that is a fly that ruins the ointment, but let's start by being crystal-clear about the issues, rather than using false generalizations and political-brain-damage arguments.

We don't have to compete against foreign slaves

Agreed, but this is really because freedom naturally outcompetes slavery (watch the movie 300 to see why... that story really happened, by the way). Freedom doesn't need "help" from other slavery in the form of domestic protectionist regulations. That's how the globalist slave-masters who have been wreaking tyranny and oppression on the Old World for thousands of years get their hooks into you. If you (generic) believe in Freedom, act like it!!

(that's how H1B functions, they can't change jobs and either do whatever the boss demands or get shipped back to the dunghole they came from).

I have seen that underbelly of the H1B program, as well. It seems like it was a program that was once working but got broken over time. In my early career, all my H1B friends were as American as blue-jeans and Cadillacs. A decade or so later, I began to see issues with very robotic-minded people coming in through the H1B program. No actually profit-oriented corporation is looking for robots in their engineering departments (useless deadweight!) Therefore, there must be other reasons why these people are being imported, besides actual profitability (DEI bribes, etc.)

Hindi are taking over in business and politics all over the anglosphere, and they only bring corruption and decay.

That's a separate issue from H1Bs. The H1B program wasn't about Indians in particular, it was a program for pipelining in truly high-skilled people who actively want to immigrate here. I have no doubt the globalist Dems have twisted the program around to their advantage as much as possible, at the cost of Americans. But nukes are not the first weapon to reach for in every argument. Start with the small hammer first, and work your way up...

 

[Snowball]

Economic success is downstream of culture.

Hmm. I thought you were saying economic success and culture are oft at odds with one another, then I thought
you meant to say economic success springs forth from culture. I tend to agree more with the former.

 

[ClaytonB]

What I care about is when I go to visit one of the nation's most stunning vistas, Mt. Washington NH, overlooking the land my people have lived on, worked and built for almost 400 years now, and I am swamped with, quite literally, 15,000 or more foreigners, who do not look like me, who do not speak my language, who do not share my religion or heritage or history in any way. That I have suddenly found myself a stranger in my own land, with not one in a hundred of the people there that look like me.

OK, but the real issue is not external appearance, the real issue is cultural and religious. Americanizing (naturalizing) was once part of the immigration process. So, the real issue is not that people are coming here, but that they are being mass-imported in droves and purposely not naturalized for the political machinations of the D-party. By shifting the discussion away from the core issue onto peripherals (external appearance), you actively undermine your own argument by allowing yourself to be easily nuked in any political conversation. "Ah, so you're an actual racist, unironically". Yeah, RAYCIS has been overplayed, but you can overplay "RAYCIS has been overplayed", too, and the Dems are actively baiting you to do that. You gotta think more than one move ahead on the political chessboard if you intend to actually achieve checkmate.

That America is an idea, not a nation of "blood and soil".

That anybody who comes here, regardless of who they are, if they "compete" and enhance the global corporatocracy's bottom line, they are welcome.

I agree these are specious arguments. Let's go back to, say, the 1930's (pre-WW2), and I think that immigration was pretty rational at that time. If you wanted to come here, and you really were a net benefit to the country, you could start the process of naturalization which actually required you to learn the language, to learn our history and values, and so on. And since Freedom is naturally preferable to whatever culture of slavery they originally came from, people naturally ended up being Americanized through sheer seduction, if nothing else. And you're right, the mind-parasite zombie hordes who are deeply programmed into their slavery and cannot escape even when exposed to American freedom, history and culture are not desirable, and shouldn't be coming here. The whole game that the Dems started with trying to import voters by the droves is ripping this country apart at the seams, that is absolutely obvious.

My main concern in this is that people on the right side of the issue play their moves with tactical correctness so that we will actually win the argument rather than getting trapped in a political four-move checkmate.

The reason is simple: this is a war of conquest. They want what nations and creeds has always wanted, resources and elbow room to grow and prosper their own kind.

What is happening is demographic warfare, absolutely, although there are still some good people trying to come here, and I want those people to be here if we can figure out how to properly filter immigrants. Hermetically sealing the border is not only impossible, it will allow the globalists to transform this country into a hard tyranny, as Dr. Paul warned us. "Those walls might be used to keep us in!" Never forget that warning!!

No different than the one we waged on the "Indian" natives (so poetic and farcical, that, don't you think) to conquer them.

There may be some element of divine justice in this current situation. Not everything we did was dirty, but we absolutely did some really dirty deals, there is no way around it.

The bottom line of a trillion dollar international tech corporation, that wants to save a few pennies on the dollar by hiring foreign labor, that does nothing more than "innovating" new ways to write computer coding to blast porn over the interwebs or come up with some new system to put me under surveillance, means less than nothing to me.

Yeah, I agree, the BlackRock-zombie front-corporations should not be setting the agenda here, certainly not in the name of the "free market", of which they know absolutely nothing.

 

[Snowball]

Elon is Grima Wormtongue, and Vivek is a mole.

 

[Anti Federalist]

"Ah, so you're an actual racist, unironically".

That means nothing to me.

Yes I am, without a doubt, so what?

We used to have a proposition nation, but the people calling me racist are the same people that smashed that ideal and killed it deader than Julius Caesar.

So they want tribalism after declaring war on me.

I am prepared to give that to them.

My first consideration in any public act or question now is: does this harm or help White people?

I agree these are specious arguments. Let's go back to, say, the 1930's (pre-WW2), and I think that immigration was pretty rational at that time

One need not go back that far.

1965, within probably both of our lifetimes.

Repeal the Hart - Celler Immigration Act.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Hmm. I thought you were saying economic success and culture are oft at odds with one another, then I thought
you meant to say economic success springs forth from culture. I tend to agree more with the former.

I am saying both.

But primarily the latter.

Thrift, property rights, a hard work ethic, individual liberty, limited government, bravery, chivalry, strength, family, forward thinking and planning, high trust, high intelligence, and above all duty to God.

All of these things and more make up the culture of the stock that conquered, founded and built this nation.

Economic prosperity flows from that nurturing culture.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I don't think people who oppose H1Bs are racist.

Some prominent people online were doing that, not you specifically.

I just think that American companies have every right to hire anybody they want, including from overseas, including to pay their relocation and help them through naturalization, etc.
...

Of course. After 17 years of debating this on this forum, that position is well known.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

This is all irrelevant. Whether humans are "widgets" or not, the point of free market competition is that people are born free to make any lawful choice that does not violate the basic rights of others, including who to hire/fire/etc. So, if XYZ Corp. wants to hire somebody from China or India (or whatever), that's their American right, as an American company. I realize that there are some higher-order strategic considerations that can come into play but the American way of defeating the Old World habits of armed theft through military means is to just outcompete the bastards (unless they want to fight for real, in which case, kick their asses.) We did it for 250 years and now, all of a sudden, we somehow can't manage. Americans suddenly need French labor protectionism or something. It's pathetic and disgusting. And to see this crap flying on Ron Paul Forums, of all places, is just embarrassing...

And why are the following "irrelevant"?

- A job
- Housing
- Food
- Transportation, vehicles, roads
- Medical care
- Education
- Govt support

So, if XYZ Corp. wants to hire somebody from China or India (or whatever), that's their American right, as an American company.

I was unaware that immigration policy was determined by people who hire other people. And you mention American company, why not American worker?

As far as economic theory goes, isn't the market supposed to adjust? If there is a demand, a need, a shortage of something, won't the invisible hand cure that? Won't more students go into STEM, and get college degrees, if there is a need for them? Won't some people retrain and move into the field? If so, then American workers could and should fill the void.

The "great shortage", due to the Y2K crisis, was an emergency that created a great demand for programmers. The government expanded their H1B program to fill that temporary emergency in the late 90s. It has been almost 30 years since then. Is the emergency over? Does it take the market longer than 30 years to adjust?

Or, is this a case of "there is nothing as permanent as a government program"?