Middle-class fleeing California invasion.

I think it probably depends on where you go there though. An Indian guy (born and raised there) I knew from college said that in some parts of New Delhi, a lot of nasty shit went down, like young rich punks injecting poorer untouchables with the HIV virus for fun, etc. He may very well have been bullshitting me, but that kind of stuck with me nonetheless.


I forgot about the untouchable thing.

The impression I was given is that not being Indian we are all untouchable as not being of their sect or social status.

That also reminds me of seeing one motion to another, of, I would guess a lower sect, to reach down and steal something for him because stealing it himself would not be of his stature.

Kind of funny now in a way. LOL

Not so much then.


I also remember of a person being here visiting a relative on some H2-B visas sort of thing that thought it was unfair that he couldn't collect Social Security. He said they told him he had to be here six months. His visa was for six months. I asked him If I was in his country if I would be given money for nothing. He looked at me like I was some sort of nut for even suggesting that sort of thing. He did seem to expect it from us.

P.S. I wonder if he left when his visa was up. I suppose it would have been up to him as for having one of the criminals in the government doing their job of controlling this sort of violation would have been less likely than lightning striking.
 
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It's far from cheap labor. You should see how these guys are compensated. They're simply the best people for the job.

If anything I should think India and these Asian countries should be mad at us for taking their best and brightest and having them create all this value for our industry. You look at all the industries we've lost - tech is one of the few remaining where we still have a competitive advantage. And a big part of that is immigrants.

Are you in the industry? I am, and rarely do I find a person that is actually in the industry that believes that PR campaign put out by Bill Gates and friends.

It is absolutely about cheaper labor, not about the "best and brightest". Yes, they are relatively well paid (compared to illegal laborers), but they are paid less than college educated professionals in other professions at those same companies you mentioned. The person who chooses the colors on the interface makes more than the programmer.
 
Are you in the industry? I am, and rarely do I find a person that is actually in the industry that believes that PR campaign put out by Bill Gates and friends.

It is absolutely about cheaper labor, not about the "best and brightest". Yes, they are relatively well paid (compared to illegal laborers), but they are paid less than college educated professionals in other professions at those same companies you mentioned. The person who chooses the colors on the interface makes more than the programmer.

I have seen it in my profession too. And safety is involved.
 
Wow - who would have guessed Torch to be a corporate shill?

Those nursery jobs are mal-investment in a welfare state. Too much labor creates saturation - it's the same reason we can buy hamburgers for $1.00 from any of the 7 fast food operations on any given set of corners. Most of those nurseries wouldn't exist if the middle class hadn't stopped mowing their own lawns, and the ones that did would pay their workers legally.

The people in those jobs do not add anything to the economy. They make $3.00 an hour while it costs $3.00 a day to feed their kids government lunches in the $10.00 a day public school they attend, plus the added expense of supplying bi-lingual staff and materials. And that's only where it starts.

Before the welfare state existed, half of all immigrants went back home because the system didn't prop them up.

Our chances of stopping the illegal immigrants are better than abolishing the welfare state. It isn't racism, and it's pathetic to keep insisting it is.

$3.00/hr. wage definitely contributes to GDP. That's a lot of hours. Many many things in the macroeconomy cost $3.00 or less. The worker that accepts the $3.00 per hour would rather have it than the hour of leisure.
 
do you think covert/subconcious racism plays some part in some people's fear and loathing over the mexicans coming here?
I know racist in louisiana who fit the bill and can't stand the mexicans for that reason alone. all the other things people bring up they get behind and act like that is the main reason because racism isn't a popular angle.

we spend too much time focusing on these people who aren't the fearful zombie leeches people make them out to be.
end the welfare state and everything is gravy. we will need mexican american's help in louisiana. they want to work here- we want to hire them here. as soveriegns i think we have the right to do that on our terms.

How do you feel about Ron Paul's platform on securing the borders and restoring legal immigration?
 
Where is this persecution complex coming from?

Is that what it is?
I don't know, maybe it comes from being in the ADL, the NAACP, and SPLC's crosshairs for too long. If you are white and like movies with white male stars like John Wayne or Clint Eastwood you are most likely a domestic terrorist. Or how it's perfectly fine to have a BLACK Biker Fest but not a WHITE Biker Fest. Or if you oppose illegal immigration and own a gun, you are most likely a domestic terrorist. Or if you are a White Christian - especially a Southern Baptist, there's a good chance that you are on the SPLC's domestic terrorist list.
The ongoing Jewish fear of Whites and White Christians is the cause of it and I find it both unreasonable and unnecessary in today's world.
 
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This story is personal to me. I moved to Michigan from California. I had a good job with Computer Sciences Corp in El Segundo (L.A.) but where was I supposed to send my kids to school? So I went back east...

Now the Government enabled massive 3rd world immigration is has totally killed the American dream in California. I'm glad I left. It is a dying 3rd world state with no future.

http://seeingredaz.wordpress.com/2009/01/15/illegal-immigration-a-factor-in-california-exodus/
 
Let's Hope that this Frosty guy is wrong

This story is personal to me. I moved to Michigan from California. I had a good job with Computer Sciences Corp in El Segundo (L.A.) but where was I supposed to send my kids to school? So I went back east...

Now the Government enabled massive 3rd world immigration is has totally killed the American dream in California. I'm glad I left. It is a dying 3rd world state with no future.

http://seeingredaz.wordpress.com/2009/01/15/illegal-immigration-a-factor-in-california-exodus/

CALIFORNIA IS THE CANARY IN AMERICA'S IMMIGRATION COAL MINE



By Frosty Wooldridge

June 25, 2009
NewsWithViews.com

Have you noticed California lately? Do you get the idea that Governor Schwarzenegger, the invincible terminator, falters with every tick of the clock? His state’s problems grow beyond solving. California’s sheer hyper-population load cannot be mitigated.

Water issues force ‘toilet to tap’ for citizens thirsting in that dry state.

When Proposition 187, passed by voters, augured into the ground via incompetent federal judges, the state become a magnet for mass migration of criminal aliens. At some point, LA Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa will not be able to walk safely in his drug crazed, 18th Street Gang-ridden, trash-filled, gridlocked, water shortage and air polluted city. Let’s face it; Los Angeles may be equated more to hell than the city of angels.

In a brilliant expose’, “California is Dying—and it’s the Canary in America’s Immigratiion Coal Mine” by Washington DC writer, Don Collins, you find a plethora of understanding facing the United States.

“Did you happen to catch Governor Terminator talking about Judgement Day in California?” Collins said. “Schwarzenegger went on the tube this past week to tell us that "We can only spend what we have. That is the harsh but simple reality," he said in the rare midyear appearance before a joint legislature session. "Our wallet is empty, our bank is closed and our credit is dried up."

Last week, Schwarzenegger said that the annual $4 billion illegal aliens cost taxpayers in educational, medical and incarceration costs doesn’t amount to much. He neglected to say that the actual numbers exceeds $10 billion annually. Worse, he failed to address the billions lost to taxes by the underground economy by criminal aliens.

Collins said. “And just now, in responding to the Governor's urgent message for cutting costs, the California Senate passed a bill to give driver's licences to illegal aliens. As if losing an average of almost 600,000 jobs a month in the US should mean we make it easier for the illegal aliens to stay here and to get to jobs American citizens don't have.

“But then, of course, our helpful Federal government is bowing to strong business pressure and allowing over 100,000 legal aliens a month to come here to the US on various brands of work visas.”

How many to California? Well here's a bit of basic demography.

“Since the 1965 changes in our immigration laws, we have added huge numbers of immigrants and their children to our national population,” Collins said. “In 1970 California's population was 20 million. Today, that population is estimated at about 37 million. Of those, the Center for Immigration Studies estimates about 10 million are legal (7 million) and illegal (3 million) immigrants. Over 8 million Californians were born outside the USA.”

Just on the sheer numbers alone, it is not hard to see why California is now bankrupt.

“I am a long-time San Francisco Democrat, now transplanted to Washington D.C.,” Collins said. “So recently I wrote Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi to ask why we didn't fix our broken immigration system. This was her June 5, 2009 email reply:

"I have long called for comprehensive immigration reform to address the growing disconnect between our nation's immigration policy and the reality on the ground in cities and communities across our country. Our immigration system needs to honor the promise of America and recognize the enormous contributions immigrants make to our nation. We must enact immigration reform that is humane and honors our American tradition of being a nation of immigrants and a land of opportunity for all. At the same time, we must secure our borders, enforce our laws, and ensure the safety of the American people.

While immigration reform remains an unsolved challenge for our nation, we must recognize that America was built by immigrants, and the immigrant community continues to make significant contributions to our nation. The debate on immigration reform must be framed by our nation's rich tradition of respect for our shared immigrant heritage. Please be assured that I will keep your comments in mind as I work with President Obama, leadership and the committees of jurisdiction to develop a strategy to advance immigration legislation that promotes our core American values."

“Can you imagine such chutzpah?” Collins said. “You know her "comprehensive immigration reform" simply means "amnesty" for the 20 million illegal aliens here now and encouraging many more later. We know the fiasco that the 1986 immigration reform legislation proved to be.”

But it really gets much worse if one is trying to calculate the fiscal effect on California—and project what this means for America.

“Folks, California is the biggest example of the famous canary in the coal mine theory ever,” Collins said. “Remember, until 1986 in the U.K., canaries were regularly used in coal mines as an early warning system. The birds died in the presence of toxic gases. Because canaries tend to sing much of the time, they provided both a visual and audible cue.

“California is certainly getting toxic budgetary news. It is killing the economy and all that this once-vaunted state had to offer in the way of education and environment, making it the envy of the world. The decline I have personally observed is obvious to so many I talk to, yet this fiscal death notice to California which has counterparts in other states, does not seem to worry other Americans—yet.”

All this means more public costs, more demands on government resources.

“How long will this madness continue?” Collins said. “California Governor Pete Wilson tried long ago to get help from our Federal Government, but those elected officials knew better than to try to buck the industrial-military complex that now rules our former Republic. Those worthies (notice in what high regard our Congress is rated in the polls) handle immigration like a political popularity contest where the more cheap labor you support importing, the more money flows to re-elect you from the coffers of business.

“Result: Just take a look at the bloated California budget. And then we learn that the City of Oakland, California will be soon joining San Francisco in giving all residents including illegal aliens ID cards. That can only serve to add to that city's nearly $100 million deficit, as public services will now flow to illegal aliens and their anchor babies.

“Of course the California voters don't want to pay to fix this mess. In the May special election, voters rejected all five budget-related measures placed on the ballot by Schwarzenegger and legislative leaders. Revenue has continued to plummet as residents have reduced spending and unemployment has soared to 11 percent.”

One must ask the question: are the patients are running the asylum?

“I predict that as matters get worse—and they surely will—Californians and all Americans will finally wake up to the facct that unchecked immigration, wanton use of the public trough and loss of expected public services will cause a revolt by voters,” Collins said. “But for now too many are sitting on their hands, fat, dumb and perhaps apprehensive but unwilling to take part in the political rough and tumble. Sad that corrective action will likely not happen before devastation to our culture, our traditions, our comity and the prosperity we have enjoyed.



“California has had many recent internal signs of overuse and unsustainability. For example, the fish resources of the state have precipitously declined and the commercial salmon fishing season is now closed, while when reasonable new regulations to save the salmon have been proposed, Terminator Schwarzenegger has sided with the farmers who keep degrading the free water they abuse, so that renewal of this great resource is imperilled.”



Having bicycled the length and width of California four times in the past 30 years, I witnessed the degradation of our most populous state. Collins gave the final blow, “California is the Big Canary. It’s dying—and Americans had better take notice.”

Listen to Frosty Wooldridge on Wednesdays as he interviews top national leaders on his radio show "Connecting the Dots" at www.themicroeffect.com at 6:00 PM Mountain Time. Adjust tuning in to your time zone.
 
^^ you are the fastest article finder ON the west. Double pun me.

Yes, California is THE FIRST IN EVERYTHING. They pioneered the proud indepenent spirit. Automobile culture. Technology. Every trend starts there and flows west. They also are first now in importing illiterate hordes from the 3rd world and the first state to die from the cancer of multi-culturism.

California rest in peace. Here is an ad hoc poem to comemorate your death:

"Gone are the days of long limbed, beautiful people, surfing the waves. The surf is riderless and the sand is dark, littered with foreign tongued trash. Whatever beckoned us to California in the first place...I think we missed it."
 
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^^ you are the fastest article finder ON the west. Double pun me.

Sounds like The Camp of the Saints

Update:

The Camp of the Saints Revisited Editorial
The Social Contract Press, parent of THE SOCIAL
CONTRACT journal, is honored to bring back into print
Jean Raspail's The Camp of the Saints. We do so just as
the immigration policy debate has risen to new heights in
the United States—indeed, across the world. We began
negotiating for the rights to publish this edition long
before several recent seminal events helped focus
attention on the wider issues involved.
The first was the passage in California of
Proposition 187, a citizen's initiative calling for an end to
most social services and welfare benefits, including
schooling, for illegal aliens. Fought out in the context of
California's gubernatorial and U.S. senate races, this was
the first time in recent decades that immigration policy
played a role in actually electing or defeating political
candidates.

Then there was the remarkable use of The Camp of
the Saints in the cover article of the December 1994 issue
of The Atlantic Monthly, "Must It Be the Rest Against the
West?" by historians Matthew Connelly and Paul
Kennedy. The Atlantic Monthly has the record for the
longest continuous publication of any magazine in the
United States, and is arguably one of the most
prestigious. This article has done much to renew interest
in Raspail's book and legitimize the consideration of its
thesis; fortuitously, this article appeared just as the book
was going to press.

The recent arrival on our shores of boatloads of
people whose stories and conditions evoke Raspail's
theme has taken it out of a theorist's realm and transposed
it into real life. As I write, boats are landing on
Australia's northern coast and there are reports of another
5,000 people on the high seas, headed South. The future
has arrived, as indicated by the photo chosen for the
cover of this edition: the Golden Venture beached off of
Queens, New York, its human cargo standing on our
shores swaddled in blankets.

The Camp of the Saints has been a controversial
book in the United States since Norman Shapiro's
translation was first released in 1975 by the respected
publishing house of Charles Scribner's Sons. The novel
alternately has been praised as a clear minded view of the
future or, contrarily, vilified as "racist." Individuals have
even been attacked for merely being familiar with it. We
trust that with the publication of the Atlantic article this
stage has passed.
* * *
A word is warranted about the role of a novel in the
immigration debate. We humans do not seem to like our
truths unvarnished. Rather than "just the facts," we
commonly prefer to have them dressed up in the
memorable forms of plays, poems, allegories, metaphors,
fables, parables, proverbs, tragedies and satires. The poet,
the playwright, the novelist, the filmmaker can present
truths and open our eyes in ways that demographic
analyses, comparative income studies, or social welfare
statistics never can. The storytellers can advance notions
prohibited to others.

Over the years the American public has absorbed a
great number of books, articles, poems and films which
exalt the immigrant experience. It is easy for the feelings
evoked by Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty to
obscure the fact that we are currently receiving too many
immigrants (and receiving them too fast) for the health of
our environment and of our common culture. Raspail
evokes different feelings and that may help to pave the
way for policy changes. The Camp of the Saints takes the
world population explosion and the immigration debate
in a new direction. Indeed, it may become the 1984 of the
twenty-first century.

We are indebted to Jean Raspail for his insights into
the human condition, and for being 20 years ahead of his
time. History will judge him more kindly than have some
of his contemporaries.

To support the reissuance of The Camp of the Saints
we adopt its title as the theme for this issue of THE
SOCIAL CONTRACT. Articles include a review of the
book by our Australian correspondent, Denis
McCormack; a report on an interview with Raspail by
our editorial advisory board member Katharine Betts,
conducted while she was on sabbatical in France; a
translation of a flier put out by Raspail's publisher which
gives some insight into the man; a compilation by
associate editor Wayne Lutton of previous reviews; a
reprint of Raspail's preface to the third (1985) French
edition (previously printed in THE SOCIAL CONTRACT,
Vol.IV, No.2, Winter 1993-94); and then articles and
data on the immigration-induced racial and ethnic
transformation of the U.S. that is underway. All this
could keep you awake at night.

Combined with our other reports and reviews we
believe you will find this issue well worth an evening.
John Tanton, Editor and Publisher
 
I am a 5th generation Californian and I left 4.5 years ago. The state is a nightmare. I grew up on the San Francisco peninsula. I dated Mexican Americans in college and married one. These were legal, first generation, or came here legally. That is how most if it was back in the 70s. These friends are now professionals and they are outraged by illegal immigration. One of them is a therapist working for Santa Clara County. Most of his clients are illegals. It really makes him sick how they have destroyed the Valley.
It's a myth to believe that all of the Americans of Mexican descent are supportive of the illegals. They are not. They are Americans outraged by the deterioration of their country and how their race is represented. My former husband is still one of my best friends and he was always embarrassed by it all.
 
I am a 5th generation Californian and I left 4.5 years ago. The state is a nightmare. I grew up on the San Francisco peninsula. I dated Mexican Americans in college and married one. These were legal, first generation, or came here legally. That is how most if it was back in the 70s. These friends are now professionals and they are outraged by illegal immigration. One of them is a therapist working for Santa Clara County. Most of his clients are illegals. It really makes him sick how they have destroyed the Valley.
It's a myth to believe that all of the Americans of Mexican descent are supportive of the illegals. They are not. They are Americans outraged by the deterioration of their country and how their race is represented. My former husband is still one of my best friends and he was always embarrassed by it all.

Welcome to the forums.
 
The California catastrophe is all about immigration

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/013894.html
The moment I saw the story, I asked myself, what is the percentage of California's prison population that are illegal aliens? And guess what? The answer, according to a July 10 editorial at Investors Business Daily which draws on a recent Pew study, is 25 percent. Illegals make up seven percent of California's population, and 25 percent of its prison population, the same percentage as the ordered size of the prisoner release. There are other impressive statistics in the IBD editorial. According to the FBI, 95 perceof warrants for murder in Los Angeles are issued for illegal aliens. IBD also reminds us that the "sanctuary" policies of many California cities, which bar police from reporting illegal aliens to federal immigration authorities so that they can be deported, has assured that illegals remain free and in the U.S., until they commit more serious crimes requiring incarceration.

I would agree with deporting rather than imprisoning illegal aliens but the 25% figure is too high according to this http://www.californiachronicle.com/articles/view/106222
According to statistics obtained from the United States Department of Justice, illegal immigrants incarcerated in California prisons comprised 12 percent of the State´s prison population in 2008. Each inmate costs California taxpayers an estimated $48,536 per year to house in State prison. The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation spent $662.4 million housing illegal immigrants in the 2005-06 fiscal year, a cost that has risen to $970 million during this current fiscal year due to an 11 percent increase in the population of illegal immigrant prisoners.
 
I think it probably depends on where you go there though. An Indian guy (born and raised there) I knew from college said that in some parts of New Delhi, a lot of nasty shit went down, like young rich punks injecting poorer untouchables with the HIV virus for fun, etc. He may very well have been bullshitting me, but that kind of stuck with me nonetheless.

I gotta call BS on that one. Where do they get the HIV virus? How expensive is it? And then they just run to the nearest bad part of town and inject someone with it for shits and giggles? Sounds like a comic book villain.

There are a billion people in India I am sure some of them are criminals and I'm sure there are bad parts of the country like anywhere else.

Dunedain just seems to be under this impression that white people are perfect and non-whites cause all the problems in the world.
 
Are you in the industry? I am, and rarely do I find a person that is actually in the industry that believes that PR campaign put out by Bill Gates and friends.

It is absolutely about cheaper labor, not about the "best and brightest". Yes, they are relatively well paid (compared to illegal laborers), but they are paid less than college educated professionals in other professions at those same companies you mentioned. The person who chooses the colors on the interface makes more than the programmer.

I'm trying to be. I recently graduated from a Master's program and and recently started an iPhone app business with my buddies. But I have a bunch of friends at Google, Facebook, Cisco, Apple etc.... These are the companies that are changing our future and are also one of the few industries where America can still dominate and they are filled with Asians and Indians. And it is not just cheap labor - many of these people are very high up in the company.

For a couple percentage points of our population these people have a huge impact on the success of our tech sector. And the way our economy is going tech is one of the few areas where we in the US still have a competitive advantage.

None of this really matters. People should be judged on their own merit. There are very few black people in these companies and that hasn't hurt my attempts at working with them and I won't make BS excuses if I don't succeed.

I am merely refuting Dunedain's theories about how only white people contribute to the economy.
 
God, this is like watching the Ku Klux Klan.

I hate to tell you, but illegal immigrants aren't "taking your jobs" -- they're taking jobs that not a single American would take. Landscaping jobs, random odd jobs... so what if people speak Spanish? Is there something wrong with that? If you're really that concerned about the dominance of Spanish in American cities, get these people onto the pathway to becoming citizens. Get them visas, and make them wait in line with everyone else. And if you really want, make it mandatory for them to learn English -- even though I think that's a pretty racist move. I mean, what ever happened to wanting to "share the American dream?" Isn't taking in the "tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free" a part of American culture? And no, not just Progressive/Liberal culture -- I mean real American culture. My god, some people in this movement make it seem like it's 1921 all over again. Why not join the KKK, why dont'chya?
 
God, this is like watching the Ku Klux Klan.

I hate to tell you, but illegal immigrants aren't "taking your jobs" -- they're taking jobs that not a single American would take. Landscaping jobs, random odd jobs... so what if people speak Spanish? Is there something wrong with that? If you're really that concerned about the dominance of Spanish in American cities, get these people onto the pathway to becoming citizens. Get them visas, and make them wait in line with everyone else. And if you really want, make it mandatory for them to learn English -- even though I think that's a pretty racist move. I mean, what ever happened to wanting to "share the American dream?" Isn't taking in the "tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free" a part of American culture? And no, not just Progressive/Liberal culture -- I mean real American culture. My god, some people in this movement make it seem like it's 1921 all over again. Why not join the KKK, why dont'chya?

I agree. There are some valid reasons for not wanting to add more people to the welfare state, but most of the reasons people throw out in these threads are definitely xenophobic.
 
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