Ky. County clerk makes a stand against feds

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

This is the first of the Kentucky Resolutions of 1798. She should have stuck to this rather than "God told me to":

1. Resolved, That the several States composing, the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that, by a compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes — delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each State to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force: that to this compact each State acceded as a State, and is an integral part, its co-States forming, as to itself, the other party: that the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among powers having no common judge, each party has an equal right to judge for itself, as well of infractions as of the mode and measure of redress.​

 

[Sonny Tufts]

Since they won't replace her, they still need her authority apparently to issue the licenses. They offered to release her if she agrees to allow her employees to issue the licenses. She told them no.

This raises an interesting point -- if it's true that her deputies can't issue the licenses without her approval and if she refuses to allow the deputies to issue them (the news report said that 5 of the 6 deputies were agreeable to issuing the licenses), then isn't she using the authority of her office to impose her religious views on her deputies?

One other point: Judge Bunning noted that Davis had taken an oath when she was sworn in. The oath goes as follows:

"I, _____, do swear that I will well and truly discharge the duties of the office of _____ County Circuit Court clerk, according to the best of my skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees, opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God.”

If her religious beliefs can't allow her to honor this oath she must resign.

 

[Tywysog Cymru]

I hope it does.

I know that it will eventually, if Christ doesn't return first that is. The question is when. The whole thing is so ridiculous that people 200 years from now will probably be laughing at how stupid our society was. And it's not just that our society tolerates homosexuality, it's that we've combined it with social justice and it's been ruled as equal to heterosexuality. Many Romans and Greeks were open homosexuals (Sappho, Nero, Elagabulus), and some African cultures tolerated it historically (Mwanga II of Buganda), but those cultures never placed it on an equal footing with the natural family and I don't think it was ever called "marriage." What they advocate is so contrary to what is natural that it can not last. It's sort of reminiscent of Communism in Eastern Europe, a radical social experiment was horrible while it last, but was destined to come crashing down from the start.

 

[TheCount]

Wow. Remember when everyone was making fun of social conservatives for saying this was coming?

Social conservatives said that the government would persecute them for their religion. That is not what is happening. Instead, this is an example of a social conservative using government as a tool to persecute others. In other words, business as usual.

 

[idiom]

If she was refusing the marriage license because one of the applicants was black and the other white, or god forbid, mexican, this forum would be completely cheering her on.

The bigots, cuz well they are bigots, and the rest of you because its probably still legal for her to do so.


Want I really want is to hear one more 'social conservative' tell me how sodom burned because it was filled with homosexuals and America awaits the same fate. Bullshit. It burned because God couldn't find 10 righteous people in the whole city.

Now the fact that you can't find 10 righteous people in your church or in the whole social conservative movement doesn't mean there aren't ten righteous people in America.

 

[erowe1]

One other point: Judge Bunning noted that Davis had taken an oath when she was sworn in. The oath goes as follows:

"I, _____, do swear that I will well and truly discharge the duties of the office of _____ County Circuit Court clerk, according to the best of my skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees, opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God.”

If her religious beliefs can't allow her to honor this oath she must resign.

Is there any evidence that she has done anything in violation of this oath?

 

[erowe1]

Want I really want is to hear one more 'social conservative' tell me how sodom burned because it was filled with homosexuals and America awaits the same fate. Bullshit. It burned because God couldn't find 10 righteous people in the whole city.

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 6-7

 

[wizardwatson]

This raises an interesting point -- if it's true that her deputies can't issue the licenses without her approval and if she refuses to allow the deputies to issue them (the news report said that 5 of the 6 deputies were agreeable to issuing the licenses), then isn't she using the authority of her office to impose her religious views on her deputies?

One other point: Judge Bunning noted that Davis had taken an oath when she was sworn in. The oath goes as follows:

"I, _____, do swear that I will well and truly discharge the duties of the office of _____ County Circuit Court clerk, according to the best of my skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees, opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God.”

If her religious beliefs can't allow her to honor this oath she must resign.

I suppose she's anchoring on the "malfeasance" point.

In this thread...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ks-Migrants-Kentucky-Clerk-Ruling-Trump-Syria

...Rand gives a very nuanced and insightful opinion on the matter in the first 3 minutes of that video. Basically saying "what is the significance of her signing it". He says why can't they contract and then she files it? Basically saying that her signing the license makes it a different matter. But also pointing out that this is precisely the issue. Who is it that's "witnessing" the marriage? Because it seems by signing it she's the witness. Anyway, these things aren't discussed and the fed's are just forcing this down everyone's throat. That's what he points to as the problem (drawing attention to this being a state's rights issue).

And Ted Cruz's thread speaks to your argument about oath violating. There's lots of other cases of people snubbing federal law and many of those elected officials aren't being hauled off to jail.

Now there's a judge in Tennessee refusing to hear divorce cases "until SCOTUS can clarify what a divorce is". Basically he's saying if SCOTUS is redefining "marriage" unilaterally, then he can't be sure he's defined "divorce" properly either.

The fact that SCOTUS used flimsy justification for this earth shaking change will only embolden people (maybe) when they find a protest mechanism that works. And as Rand points out this will ultimately come to a shutdown of marriage altogether.

 

[phill4paul]

And as Rand points out this will ultimately come to a shutdown of marriage altogether.

Let's hope. The government courts need to focus on things that bring in revenue. Like non-violent offenses.

 

[adissa]

She does not have a moral objection. He has a bigoted objection which she is trying to back-justify.

LOL!!

 

[Tywysog Cymru]

A comment on a TAC article:

What, exactly, does Kim Davis hope to accomplish with her defiance?
Her defiance is irrational, similar to that man in Tiananmen Square who stood before a column of tanks, daring a ruthless State to crush him. Yes, it may be futile, but it is heroic.

 

[Brett85]

She only recently became a Christian. All of those things happened before she became a Christian. So I don't see your point. She's admitted that she did a lot of things she isn't proud of before she became a Christian.

 

[wizardwatson]

Let's hope. The government courts need to focus on things that bring in revenue. Like non-violent offenses.

I'm actually not against it really. Not philosophically. As I pointed out in post #162 one could make a reasonable argument that marriage infers a "title of nobility" in some when others aren't eligible "in some way" AND THEN appeal to the 14th amendment. But appealing to the 14th as a reason to redefine to "add a class" of people to marriage and then use the 14th amendment to justify enforcing it and throwing people in jail is some weird circular reasoning. Appealing to the 14th to outlaw marriage seems more defendable.

Of course I think it's all baloney at root, but if we're going to play "rationalize our way to get what we want" outlawing marriage is less retarded.

 

[wizardwatson]

A comment on a TAC article:

What, exactly, does Kim Davis hope to accomplish with her defiance?
Her defiance is irrational, similar to that man in Tiananmen Square who stood before a column of tanks, daring a ruthless State to crush him. Yes, it may be futile, but it is heroic.

I agree for the most part. God put her hillbilly butt in the spotlight not so much to show her a hero though as much as to shine the light in these last days on hypocritical America and her completely incompetent and fully retarded legal system.

 

[phill4paul]

I'm actually not against it really. Not philosophically. As I pointed out in post #162 one could make a reasonable argument that marriage infers a "title of nobility" in some when others aren't eligible "in some way" AND THEN appeal to the 14th amendment. But appealing to the 14th as a reason to redefine to "add a class" of people to marriage and then use the 14th amendment to justify enforcing it and throwing people in jail is some weird circular reasoning. Appealing to the 14th to outlaw marriage seems more defendable.

Of course I think it's all baloney at root, but if we're going to play "rationalize our way to get what we want" outlawing marriage is less retarded.

Less retarded in a system full on retarded is better than full on retarded.

 

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

 

[Brett85]

If she's now a Christian, shouldn't she be returning to her first husband ... or at least exiting her current pseudo-marital, adulterous relationship. I'm not saying this with any certainty, but that's the way I've heard it's supposed to be. It's great she's been forgiven, but isn't she continuing with the sin? Or does she get to write off the first few marriages because the husbands weren't Christian enough?

No, the Bible actually teaches that it's an abomination for a husband to remarry his wife after he's divorced her.

Deuteronomy 24: 4

"Then her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance."

 

[wizardwatson]

Another wizard original for Kim Davis. I'm also reposting my confederate flag comic as I feel they are related in spirit. Hope you like!

 

[idiom]

Jude 6-7

Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?" He answered, "For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it."

Genesis 18:32

Oh look I can quote shit too. Its the reading for content that is important.

 

[wizardwatson]

So I went to post my meme on twitter #KimDavis thread, and right there was somebody tweeting "If you want to witness the hate of the LGBT community, go to #KimDavis".

After viewing a couple hundred tweets I have to agree. It's another zombie hate fest akin to the confederate flag debacle. So I feel even more justified in linking these two things in my images above. The prevailing jab is "I hope she gets raped in jail."

I definitely disagree with a lot of people at RPF but at least there's some level of respect. The hate-filled deluge on twitter is a sad state of affairs. Nobody has any real point. Just "Fuck You!!! We won this time bitches!!!"

This nation is choking on pride.