Just got unfriended for debunking wage gap to liberal friend.

[Qdog]

I have mixed emotions. It is strange to have a friend unfriend you after you have known them for over 15 years over a minor political disagreement.

He originally posted this video: http://www.newnownext.com/literally...ooled-by-meredith-vieira-on-wage-gap/04/2015/

And he said that the chick was stupid.

So I Posted this:http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472
And said that the wage gap was a tired liberal talking point that has been debunked.

He said that that is a conservative source, and therefore bullshit.

I told him you cant compare a school teacher and someone working 80 hours a week on an oil rig, and then try to pretend there is a wage gap. I also gave him this liberal site saying the same thing: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html

I said that once you account for hours worked, experience, etc that the real wage gap is less than 5%, and that this gap has been theorized to be related to a men being more aggressive during wage negotiations.

Now I am unfriended. I have had hard headed liberal friends in the past... but jesus Christ. Im kinda sad right now. What is the deal with these liberals? Sometimes arguing with them, I feel almost like their belief systems are a form of religion to them, and that any evidence shown to the contrary is heresy.

Just a few of their religious doctrines I have noticed:
Global Warming
Gun Control
Minimum Wage
anything to do with economics


Anyway I feel like shit. I would like to hear if any of you all have had similar experiences. Hopefully I can learn something from this.

 

[puppetmaster]

Liberals are the most intolerant fucks.

 

[VIDEODROME]

I hate Facebook at times like that. "Social Network" just takes normal social chit chat and makes to weird and complicated.

It's why I prefer to chat on forums where everything is in a category or sub-forum depending on what you want to talk about. I wish Facebook was more like that. Well, I guess it can be if I really want to go through the hassle of fine tuning everything.

 

[anaconda]

In 2012 I was Facebook de-friended by both an Obama supporter and a Romney supporter. Which had a strange sense of gratification.

 

[Ron Paul in 2008]

I have mixed emotions. It is strange to have a friend unfriend you after you have known them for over 15 years over a minor political disagreement.

He originally posted this video: http://www.newnownext.com/literally...ooled-by-meredith-vieira-on-wage-gap/04/2015/

And he said that the chick was stupid.

So I Posted this:http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472
And said that the wage gap was a tired liberal talking point that has been debunked.

He said that that is a conservative source, and therefore bullshit.

I told him you cant compare a school teacher and someone working 80 hours a week on an oil rig, and then try to pretend there is a wage gap. I also gave him this liberal site saying the same thing: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html

I said that once you account for hours worked, experience, etc that the real wage gap is less than 5%, and that this gap has been theorized to be related to a men being more aggressive during wage negotiations.

Now I am unfriended. I have had hard headed liberal friends in the past... but jesus Christ. Im kinda sad right now. What is the deal with these liberals? Sometimes arguing with them, I feel almost like their belief systems are a form of religion to them, and that any evidence shown to the contrary is heresy.

Just a few of their religious doctrines I have noticed:
Global Warming
Gun Control
Minimum Wage
anything to do with economics


Anyway I feel like shit. I would like to hear if any of you all have had similar experiences. Hopefully I can learn something from this.

Sorry about that. But its best not to talk politics at work or with friends.

I doubt he was a true friend for unfriending you for something so small.

 

[Henry Rogue]

With friends like that you don’t need enemies, because sure as heck, he or she will vote to take your freedom and wealth.

I have mixed emotions. It is strange to have a friend unfriend you after you have known them for over 15 years over a minor political disagreement.

He originally posted this video: http://www.newnownext.com/literally...ooled-by-meredith-vieira-on-wage-gap/04/2015/

And he said that the chick was stupid.

So I Posted this:http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472
And said that the wage gap was a tired liberal talking point that has been debunked.

He said that that is a conservative source, and therefore bullshit.

I told him you cant compare a school teacher and someone working 80 hours a week on an oil rig, and then try to pretend there is a wage gap. I also gave him this liberal site saying the same thing: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html

I said that once you account for hours worked, experience, etc that the real wage gap is less than 5%, and that this gap has been theorized to be related to a men being more aggressive during wage negotiations.

Now I am unfriended. I have had hard headed liberal friends in the past... but jesus Christ. Im kinda sad right now. What is the deal with these liberals? Sometimes arguing with them, I feel almost like their belief systems are a form of religion to them, and that any evidence shown to the contrary is heresy.

Just a few of their religious doctrines I have noticed:
Global Warming
Gun Control
Minimum Wage
anything to do with economics


Anyway I feel like shit. I would like to hear if any of you all have had similar experiences. Hopefully I can learn something from this.

 

[westkyle]

Sorry about that. But its best not to talk politics at work or with friends.

I doubt he was a true friend for unfriending you for something so small.

At work, yeah, don't talk politics. Friends? Why not? I have talked with politics with friends who disagree with me many times, yet at no time was any anger involved. Maybe some passion, but no negative feelings toward the person themselves. The person who unfriended him was not a friend in the first place.

 

[CaptUSA]

Anyway I feel like shit. I would like to hear if any of you all have had similar experiences. Hopefully I can learn something from this.

I think you can learn something. When dealing with friends, it is best to find points of agreement and then discuss from there. I have never seen anyone win an argument and you didn't win, either. The more you try to tell them their precepts are wrong, the more they will try to defend them. Because that is what they believe.

Here are some things you can do:

1. Instead of arguing, ask questions. Draw their precepts out to their logical conclusions - most times, people haven't thought them that far. By asking questions, you make them ask the same questions in their heads in order to answer them for you. It also gives them a sense of superiority since they will be the ones answering the questions. In this case, ask something like, "I've heard that if you correct for hours worked and experience, it tends to even out... Is that not true? You can even link to the article and ask them to debunk it. At least then, they'll have to read it instead of just attacking the source.

2. Pivot. This is something Rand does well. When they start talking wage inequality, pivot to other areas of agreement and forces that affect the differences. For example, "Yeah, I'm not sure about their stats, but I'm more concerned about why this might be happening. The problem tends to disappear when you look at people working the same job, but the more lucrative fields tend to attract more men." Then link to your article. This pivot works really well with topics such as global warming and other economic issues. Instead of arguing about global warming, pivot to how the government is the biggest polluter of all. Instead of arguing about the minimum wage, pivot to how the Fed is hurting lower income workers.

There are other methods, but if you want people to listen to you, you can't force them to. They have to come to it themselves. You can only be a guide.

 

[roho76]

Sorry about that. But its best not to talk politics at work or with friends.

And this is the reason politics has become so bad. People have been convinced that we shouldn't talk about this stuff out in the open. If we are going to elect leaders we should talk about them constantly, in every format. People have become apathetic about politics and it has ruined this country. I'm an anarchist anymore but like I said, if we're gonna be ruled the rulers should know we are talking about them, always.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Congrats! Not really much of a loss.

 

[Spikender]

I don't go on Facebook enough for this happen.

What's pretty cool though is that my coworkers are more than open to talking about politics and even debating them. At least the people on my team. We used to sit around at night and talk politics, and we're from all stripes of political believe. Luckily there's another libertarian dude who I work with who can back me up if I come up short on a fact when talking. But we all agreed not to take any of it personally so it's awesome to be able to sharpen my debating/explanation skills while at work during downtime.

 

[hells_unicorn]

I'm not as active on Facebook now as I was 2 years ago, but I've had comparable experiences, albeit with people that I knew for a shorter period of time. I've found that the more I talk about politics on Facebook, the more people I actually end up blocking as I've had some people go completely apesh!t on me for things that I don't consider terribly important. For example, I am not a terribly big fan of the nation-state of Israel and I have some major problems with the things that the Jewish religion teaches about Christianity and people not descended from Shem, but I had a guy go off on me because I didn't decide to take either Ukraine or Russia's side during the Crimea incident. This guy apparently thinks that Putin is going to save us all from the grand Jewish conspiracy by conquering Ukraine, a country that has seen mass exodus of said people to Israel over the past several decades. It was downright bizarre, and suffice to say, I don't miss the guy at all.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

What is the deal with these liberals? Sometimes arguing with them, I feel almost like their belief systems are a form of religion to them, and that any evidence shown to the contrary is heresy.

That's exactly it. They are not leftists because they look at the data and draw conclusions. They are leftists first, at an emotional level, and then any data which contradicts their beliefs is rejected out of hand. To be fair, this is not only a problem for the left. It's a problem for people all across the political spectrum.

Anyway I feel like shit. I would like to hear if any of you all have had similar experiences. Hopefully I can learn something from this.

The lesson is that you just can't reason with some people. Some people are fundamentally irrational. If such a person is a friend, probably best to just avoid the subject.

 

[jj-]

Anyway I feel like shit. I would like to hear if any of you all have had similar experiences. Hopefully I can learn something from this.

They don't have the part of the brain that reasons well developed. They use empathy instead of reason, and for that act insane. My guess is that your life will be better without them.

 

[Qdog]

Great answer Capt! Thanks for the advice. I especially like the Rand example. I can kinda see how I might have come across as a snooty know it all!.

 

[VIDEODROME]

I think you can learn something. When dealing with friends, it is best to find points of agreement and then discuss from there. I have never seen anyone win an argument and you didn't win, either. The more you try to tell them their precepts are wrong, the more they will try to defend them. Because that is what they believe.

Here are some things you can do:

1. Instead of arguing, ask questions. Draw their precepts out to their logical conclusions - most times, people haven't thought them that far. By asking questions, you make them ask the same questions in their heads in order to answer them for you. It also gives them a sense of superiority since they will be the ones answering the questions. In this case, ask something like, "I've heard that if you correct for hours worked and experience, it tends to even out... Is that not true? You can even link to the article and ask them to debunk it. At least then, they'll have to read it instead of just attacking the source.

2. Pivot. This is something Rand does well. When they start talking wage inequality, pivot to other areas of agreement and forces that affect the differences. For example, "Yeah, I'm not sure about their stats, but I'm more concerned about why this might be happening. The problem tends to disappear when you look at people working the same job, but the more lucrative fields tend to attract more men." Then link to your article. This pivot works really well with topics such as global warming and other economic issues. Instead of arguing about global warming, pivot to how the government is the biggest polluter of all. Instead of arguing about the minimum wage, pivot to how the Fed is hurting lower income workers.

There are other methods, but if you want people to listen to you, you can't force them to. They have to come to it themselves. You can only be a guide.

I try to do that if someone presses me on an issue. Try to come off as inquisitive about how they've came to the conclusions they have. Ask them if there is a working model in another country. Ask what authors or media figures have influenced them.

Also, I think there can be advantages to being Libertarian when conversations like this come up. I'd like to think we could find common ground with Liberals on the ending the wars especially the destructive Drug War.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

Always throw up a middle finger to these sorry assholes whenever possible. If you lose them as a friend, good. One less friend who's a blithering idiot.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

ya welcome to the people crying tolerance being the intolerant ones. I never stopped being someone's friend over a political debate, no matter how much we disagreed, but I've had plenty do it to me, even though I didn't want to stop being their friend or anything. It inhibits debate.

 

[The Free Hornet]

.....

 

[milgram]

I've gone back and forth on the wage gap. I think it's best to link to newspaper fact checkers and government studies.

Tom Woods just did a show on persuading others. Although the conversation does not go very deep, they do highlight the distinction between debating and persuasion - the latter being more difficult.

http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-393-how-to-persuade-people-tom-and-michael-malice-discuss/

Ben "The Boy Wonder" Shapiro gave a talk about debating liberals. I'm not a huge fan of this guy, but I think he makes some decent points here.