Joe Rogan : "You gotta get scared that people who are not criminals are being set to El Salvador prisons."

[Invisible Man]

We aren't removing the part where you get to be free if you come here legally.

In other posts you supported doing that for Rümeysa Öztürk.

 

[PAF]

The biggest magnet was that if you come here illegally you get to be free and you get to stay here.

We aren't removing the part where you get to be free if you come here legally.

The part that you and other dumb-ass Americans don't get is that once you become "legal", you are no longer free and considered property of the government, but have the ability to get free stuff from tax payers.

It's far, far better to be illegal for everybody including Americans to be free, but the proper term should be "undocumented".

 

[Anti Federalist]

It's far, far better to be illegal for everybody including Americans to be free, but the proper term should be "undocumented".

The proper term is "enemy invader"

 

[PAF]

The proper term is "enemy invader"

Keep payin' yer taxes. Not only do the "invaders" appreciate it, so do the FED, DHS, ICE, PIC, MIC, and all of the other agencies there are to "protect" you.


PS: you forgot to include my part of the quote where I said "dumb-ass Americans".

 

[nikcers]

The part that you and other dumb-ass Americans don't get is that once you become "legal", you are no longer free and considered property of the government, but have the ability to get free stuff from tax payers.

It's far, far better to be illegal for everybody including Americans to be free, but the proper term should be "undocumented".

That's why self government is important. If that ever changes that could become a real problem. If we had a king I would be the kings property.

We don't have a king though. In democracy the people are the king. We have sovereignty. We decide if other people get to come here and join our union of people and territory.

We have a constitution that begins with we the people.

 

[Invisible Man]

We have a constitution that begins with we the people.

That's just propaganda though.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Keep payin' yer taxes. Not only do the "invaders" appreciate it, so do the FED, DHS, ICE, PIC, MIC, and all of the other agencies there are to "protect" you.


PS: you forgot to include my part of the quote where I said "dumb-ass Americans".

I didn't forget, I edited it out deliberately.

Again, this is like arguing with my wife: we've been over this a thousand times already, you're not changing my mind, I'm not changing yours.

I explained a thousand times why none of those alphabet soup agencies, who are not doing anything but facilitating the invasion, are needed to stop it.

 

[nikcers]

That's just propaganda though.

Who is the King - if it's not the people? Who runs bartertown?

 

[Invisible Man]

Who is the King - if it's not the people? Who runs bartertown?

It's an oligarchy. And in reality, so are all states, whether they be nominally democracies, monarchies, or anything in between.

As Larken Rose said:

The entire notion of "a government of the people, by the people, and for the people," while it makes nice feel-good political rhetoric, is a logical impossibility. A ruling class cannot serve or represent those it rules any more than a slave owner can serve or represent his slaves.​

But also, even consider your post that I was replying to where you asserted, "We decide if other people get to come here and join our union of people and territory."

That sounds nice until you dig into the details it find that you don't really mean "we." By "we" you really just mean yourself. If I want to welcome someone onto my property without your permission, you don't think I should be allowed to. You don't support self-government at all. If you did, you would support private property rights.

 

[nikcers]

Certainly I mean we. We The People.

That's the social contract you are in as an American citizen that you are free to leave.

The motto of the United States is out of many, one.

Human rights certainly don't exist in a power vacuum. We don't have a power vacuum in our country.

We let people bring other people here certainly. If you legitimately marry someone who is a foreign national they can come here. There are other ways as well.

 

[Invisible Man]

Certainly I mean we.

That's the social contract you are in as an American citizen that you are free to leave.

The motto of the United States is out of many, one.

Human rights certainly don't exist in a power vacuum. We don't have a power vacuum in our country.

We let people bring other people here certainly. If you legitimately marry someone who is a foreign national they can come here. There are other ways as well.

But you clearly don't mean "we." By your own explanation, you mean some people are masters and others are slaves, and if the slaves don't like it, they should leave. That's not a real contract. And it isn't self-government--it's the exact opposite.

And yes, there's no shortage of propaganda in America telling the slaves that they're the rulers and should be happy about it. Every regime in the world does that same thing. Take the name of the country "The People's Republic of Korea," for example. The inclusion of the possessive noun "People's" in their name doesn't make it so.

 

[nikcers]

But you clearly don't mean "we." By your own explanation, you mean some people are masters and others are slaves, and if the slaves don't like it, they should leave. That's not a real contract. And it isn't self-government--it's the exact opposite.

And yes, there's no shortage of propaganda in America telling the slaves that they're the rulers and should be happy about it. Every regime in the world does that same thing. Take the name of the country "The People's Republic of Korea," for example. The inclusion of the possessive noun "People's" in their name doesn't make it so.

You technically aren't even a slave if you break the rules of our social contract and serve prison time.

Slaves lack human rights. A slave is like your cattle. If you want to go into your barnyard and kill your cattle and eat it you are free to do so.

Social contract theory, nearly as old as philosophy itself, is the view that persons’ moral and/or political obligations are dependent upon a contract or agreement among them to form the society in which they live. Socrates uses something quite like a social contract argument to explain to Crito why he must remain in prison and accept the death penalty.

 

[TheTexan]

You technically aren't even a slave if you break the rules of our social contract and serve prison time.

Slaves lack human rights. A slave is like your cattle. If you want to go into your barnyard and kill your cattle and eat it you are free to do so.

Social contract theory, nearly as old as philosophy itself, is the view that persons’ moral and/or political obligations are dependent upon a contract or agreement among them to form the society in which they live. Socrates uses something quite like a social contract argument to explain to Crito why he must remain in prison and accept the death penalty.

Social contract theory is only valid if the right to secede is respected.

If a person cannot exit a contract that they never even agreed to in the first place, then you don't have "social contracts". You have slavery.

You just don't care because you're a tyrant.

 

[nikcers]

Social contract theory is only valid if the right to secede is respected.

If a person cannot exit a contract that they never even agreed to in the first place, then you don't have "social contracts". You have slavery.

You just don't care because you're a tyrant.

You can exit the contract. I just said you can. Exit the contract already. Renounce your citizenship and go live in Mexico as an illegal migrant and see how they treat you.

 

[TheTexan]

You can exit the contract. I just said you can. Exit the contract already. Renounce your citizenship and go live in Mexico as an illegal migrant and see how they treat you.

That's not the way contracts work. When a contract is dissolved, assets and liabilities are distributed amongst the parties, and both parties are entitled to a period of negotiation to determine how the distribution can be done in an equitable way.

When the only way to end a contract is to flee the country in order to not get shot or arrested by your previous... partners.... then you never had a contract. You had slave masters.

 

[nikcers]

That's not the way contracts work. When a contract is dissolved, assets and liabilities are distributed amongst the parties, and both parties are entitled to a period of negotiation to determine how the distribution can be done in an equitable way.

When the only way to end a contract is to flee the country in order to not get shot or arrested by your previous... partners.... then you never had a contract. You had slave masters.

We won't shoot. I promise. Murder is against the law whether you are a citizen or not.

You can even sell off your assets and take your money and go live in another country.

People do it all the time. Sure it's not cheap but it's doable as long as you are somewhat good with your money.

You can't do that in some places like China for example.

People escape China with only the clothes on their back. They don't let you take money out of China.

They even send people here who harass American citizens because they are of Chinese descent. They tell them they have to go home to their homeland and threaten their family. Sometimes they offer them money but you don't really own anything if you live in China.

If they do that now I just wonder what they will do to us in 20 years if we can't tell them no anymore.

Go ahead though we won't threaten your dog or your family. Renounce your citizenship.

 

[TheTexan]

We won't shoot. I promise. Murder is against the law whether you are a citizen or not.

You can even sell off your assets and take your money and go live in another country.

People do it all the time. Sure it's not cheap but it's doable as long as you are somewhat good with your money.

You can't do that in some places like China for example.

People escape China with only the clothes on their back. They don't let you take money out of China.

They even send people here who harass American citizens because they are of Chinese descent. They tell them they have to go home to their homeland and threaten their family. Sometimes they offer them money but you don't really own anything if you live in China.

If they do that now I just wonder what they will do to us in 20 years if we can't tell them no anymore.

Go ahead though we won't threaten your dog or your family. Renounce your citizenship.

I shouldn't have to sell my land. You don't have a greater claim to my land than I do.

 

[nikcers]

I shouldn't have to sell my land. You don't have a greater claim to my land than I do.

Sure do- the territory you live on. The absolute sovereignty belongs to the people of the United States.

So if you leave the union then that means that you no longer have sovereignty over that territory.

 

[TheTexan]

Sure do- the territory you live on. The absolute sovereignty belongs to the people of the United States.

So if you leave the union then that means that you no longer have sovereignty over that territory.

You just said it yourself, the sovereignty of that territory belongs to the people of the United States.

I am a person of the United States.

When I dissolve my contract, I am entitled to my equitable share of the assets and liabilities, including the sovereignty that which I previously owned a share of.

If you wish to negotiate the terms of that dissolution, that is perfectly reasonable, but to completely deny that I have any rights to what I am being told that I was previously a part owner of, is not how contracts work.

The fact that there is no dissolution negotiation process at all proves that this is not at all a contractual relationship.

 

[unknown]

Sure do- the territory you live on. The absolute sovereignty belongs to the people of the United States.

So if you leave the union then that means that you no longer have sovereignty over that territory.

The federal government exists at the pleasure of the states.