Joe Rogan : "You gotta get scared that people who are not criminals are being set to El Salvador prisons."

[Snowball]

That's simply a lie about the feds not being involved in the early years.

It certainly is. I just didn't have time or compunction to debunk them, even though I also know they are either lying or simply ignorant of history.
I don't think they have a very good editorial board for history. They tend to warp history to fit their predispositions.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I know Sword already posted this story, but it bears repeating.

We tried to give due process to Garcia, three years ago, when he was arrested and suspected of very serious crimes with real victims.

Because he is a soldier in the army of invaders that our own government was/is protecting, funding and facilitating, the feds ordered him released.

 

[Anti Federalist]

 

[Swordsmyth]

And neither do many libertarians.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Alas, since we're being "realz" ... what does an article (reposted by the Ron Paul Institute) by Jacob Hornberger (the founder of the Future of Freedom Foundation, which originally published the article) have to do with ... the Mises Institute?

well, technically you're right and that hit me after the post, HOWEVER, Hornberger does write for Mises sometimes. Nonetheless, Mises has objections about the tariffs I blasted in another thread, proving that they don't cause inflation, which has other reasons... and the silly op-ed about the Mexican cartels. Anyway, the attitude about deportations at Mises.org is of a very similar vein to RPI and Hornberger. For example:

RPI and The Mises Institute are open to differing opinions and include a variety of authors and perspectives, which do not always represent the opinion of the institutes themselves.

Meanwhile, the leftist side of the "libertarian" world, especially the beltway libertarian organizations, tightly control content to align with their agendas, missions, goals, and funders.

Pretty much applies to the right and left in most areas. While Fox News may include opposing and counter-opinions (mostly to engage in verbal combat rather than understanding), on the left at MSNBC, there will be no such airing of opposition for any reason, other than the obvious need to play a quote or clip to then criticize.

 

[Invisible Man]

That's simply a lie about the feds not being involved in the early years.

What's an example of the federal government taking charge of immigration policy before the 1880s?

 

[Anti Federalist]

What's an example of the federal government taking charge of immigration policy before the 1880s?

The Naturalization Act of 1790.

It stated who would be allowed to become citizens.

Specifically, free Whites of good character.

It set other limitations as well.

There were other Acts that amended and clarified that Act in 1795, 1798, 1804 and 1831.

 

[PAF]

RPI and The Mises Institute are open to differing opinions and include a variety of authors and perspectives, which do not always represent the opinion of the institutes themselves.

Meanwhile, the leftist side of the "libertarian" world, especially the beltway libertarian organizations, tightly control content to align with their agendas, missions, goals, and funders.

Pretty much applies to the right and left in most areas. While Fox News may include opposing and counter-opinions (mostly to engage in verbal combat rather than understanding), on the left at MSNBC, there will be no such airing of opposition for any reason, other than the obvious need to play a quote or clip to then criticize.

Pretty good response.

I still don't know what is meant by "beltway libertarian". If one is grounded in principle, it shouldn't matter if it is left leaning or right.

For example, I have had the right wing tell me I am nothing but a leftist, while the left wing believes I am so far beyond far right that it's sickening. I can't make heads nor tails over that, but I feel that I am very well grounded in my positions, which would be a net positive for not only me, but everybody else as well.

Does that make me a "beltway", aside from being in the Rust Belt that I live in?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

New damning details have emerged regarding an alleged MS-13 gangster from El Salvador that the corporate media affectionately calls a “Maryland man.”
...
The document in question is a Prince George’s County Police Department Gang Field Interview Sheet from March 28, 2019. Police arrested Abrego Garcia and three others after catching them loitering in the parking lot of a Home Depot in Hyattsville, Maryland.

...

Most of that is not new though.

Illegals loitering in a parking lot at Home Depot waiting for work is not unusual at all. Rounding them up together does not indicate or prove any association other than standing around waiting for work. It's not like they were caught together at an MS-13 headquarters, as many on Fox News have implied.

The new information revealed by the document should put to rest any doubt that Abrego Garcia is nothing more than a violent and prominent member of one of the most brutal gangs on Earth.


Per the document, here are the details:

1. When Garcia was arrested in March 2019, he and three of his cronies were found in possession of marijuana and discarded several other items at the scene.

OMG! Marijuana! That proves exactly...nothing.

2. He was arrested with two other members of MS-13 named Christhyan Hernandez-Romero and Jose Guillermo Dominguez. A fourth individual was unnamed in the interview sheet.

Once again, hanging out waiting for work at Home Depot does not prove anything.

3. When Abrego Garcia was arrested, he was wearing MS-13’s uniform.

Which is more compelling than anything so far, but when that "uniform" is standard clothing than an 80 year old, white retired post office worker might also wear by coincidence, it is not proof of anything.

4. A confidential source then confirmed that Abrego-Garcia was a member of MS-13 and revealed his rank in the organization.

That source has been sketchy and controversial since day one.

The Tennessee Star learned on Wednesday that Kilmar Abrego Garcia, an alleged member of the Central American gang Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) who was deported to El Salvador under President Donald Trump amid legal action claiming the removal was by mistake, was suspected of being engaged in human trafficking by a Tennessee Highway Patrol (THP) officer who detained him in December 2022, leading the THP to contact the FBI for guidance. Within two hours, the FBI ultimately requested the THP release Garcia and the passengers in his vehicle. THP complied with the request.


The Star learned from sources familiar with the incident that Abrego Garcia was stopped for an unknown reason on December 6, 2022, and that the THP officer responsible for the stop immediately discovered Abrego Garcia was transporting seven passengers, with eight individuals inside the vehicle.


During a nearly two-hour traffic stop, the THP officer determined that Abrego Garcia (pictured above) was operating the vehicle without a valid driver’s license and began searching for information about him.

Plenty of probable cause to deport him right there. No license, no ID, no visa, no proof of any kind? Give him and his family a few days to provide valid proof, otherwise, bye, bye. That is pretty much how ICE has been operating in California since ICE got serious about their job.

One source told The Star that THP ultimately discovered Abrego Garcia was on a terrorist watch list, but could not locate Abrego Garcia on a deportation list. Another source told The Star that THP did not discover Abrego Garcia on a terrorist watch list but that another one of the seven passengers in the vehicle may have been on a terrorist watch list.

One source said this, one source said something slightly different...here say, and as believable as the MSM citing "anonymous govt officials".

THP subsequently called the FBI, which was then led by former Director Christopher Wray under the Biden administration. The FBI instructed the THP officers at the scene to capture photographs of all eight people in the vehicle and document its contents.


Once the photographs were captured, this source told The Star that the FBI requested THP release all eight individuals and that the THP officers complied with this request.

And what will be the consequences for FBI officials who told them to release illegals into the nation?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Pretty good response.

I still don't know what is meant by "beltway libertarian". If one is grounded in principle, it shouldn't matter if it is left leaning or right.

For example, I have had the right wing tell me I am nothing but a leftist, while the left wing believes I am so far beyond far right that it's sickening. I can't make heads nor tails over that, but I feel that I am very well grounded in my positions, which would be a net positive for not only me, but everybody else as well.

Does that make me a "beltway", aside from being in the Rust Belt that I live in?

Are you paid by an organization that has a presence in the DC Beltway? That would make you "beltway".

Capital Beltway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Capital Beltway is a 64-mile (103 km) auxiliary Interstate Highway in the Washington metropolitan area that surrounds Washington, D.C., the capital of the United States, and its inner suburbs in adjacent Maryland and Virginia. It is the basis of the phrase "inside the Beltway", used when referring to issues dealing with U.S. federal government and politics.

Asking Grok:

"Beltway" refers to political organizations or activities associated with Washington, D.C., particularly those within the Interstate 495 loop, known as the Capital Beltway. It symbolizes the insider political culture, think tanks, lobbying groups, and government institutions concentrated in this area, often implying a disconnect from broader American perspectives.

 

[acptulsa]

And neither do many libertarians.

The only thing deep about you is your well of toxicity.

Hate to tell you, Trumper, but you're the neocon now.

 

[PAF]

"Beltway" refers to political organizations or activities associated with Washington, D.C., particularly those within the Interstate 495 loop, known as the Capital Beltway. It symbolizes the insider political culture, think tanks, lobbying groups, and government institutions concentrated in this area, often implying a disconnect from broader American perspectives.

Still not clear.

No, I am not part of any organization or activities associated with D.C., and I am not part of any lobby group. But I have been accused of, and can agree, that I do have a disconnect with the broader American perspective.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Are you paid by an organization that has a presence in the DC Beltway? That would make you "beltway".
...

Still not clear.

No, I am not part of any organization or activities associated with D.C., and I am not part of any lobby group. But I have been accused of, and can agree, that I do have a disconnect with the broader American perspective.

You could be paid by an organization outside of DC and still be considered "beltway", as a generalization.

 

[PAF]

You could be paid by an organization outside of DC and still be considered "beltway", as a generalization.

Well, I'm definitely not.

I guess my question was more focused on, aside from who funds or is being funded, what defining principles/philosophies imply a beltway libertarian?

For example, I am an admitted "open border" advocate [even though what we really have are closed borders]. I believe that humans have a right to travel freely without being interrogated by government goons only to be held in prison industrial complex camps on the tax payer dole, that tax-paid incentives/free handouts must stop, and that businesses should be free to Bilaterally Contract who they want to hire without government intrusion. I oppose the Police-State, and believe in individual liberty and natural rights, not only for people born here, but all of God's children.

Both the left and the right have ridiculed me. Does that make me a "beltway libertarian", even though I stand solidly firm in my principles?

 

[Invisible Man]

The Naturalization Act of 1790.

It stated who would be allowed to become citizens.

Specifically, free Whites of good character.

It set other limitations as well.

There were other Acts that amended and clarified that Act in 1795, 1798, 1804 and 1831.

That's naturalization, not immigration.

 

[acptulsa]

Still not clear.

Cato Institute, Reason mag and etc. are called that because they kept trying to redefine libertarianism for various nefarious purposes. They have done what Swordshyll does, creating straw libertarians for the media to attack. It's libertarian to kick puppies! And they've done sheepherding along the edges. You heard a libertarian say something smart, so you're here to discover what it is? Well it's for liberty and self determination, moral character and entrepreneurship, God and Almighty Israel! You know. The stuff that has a real libertarian nodding in agreement until they unsheathe the agenda and stick it in the reader's back.

Beltway libertarians are propagandists and K St. lobbyists who either lobby libertarians on behalf of the government, provide the media with an "authoritative" but wrong definition of us, or both. It isn't a type of libertarian, it's a type of beltway critter.

 

[PAF]

Cato Institute, Reason mag and etc. are called that because they kept trying to redefine libertarianism for various nefarious purposes. They have done what Swordshyll does, creating straw libertarians for the media to attack. It's libertarian to kick puppies! And they've done sheepherding along the edges. You heard a libertarian say something smart, so you're here to discover what it is? Well it's for liberty and self determination, moral character and entrepreneurship, God and Almighty Israel! You know. The stuff that has a real libertarian nodding in agreement until they unsheathe the agenda and stick it in the reader's back.

Beltway libertarians are propagandists and K St. lobbyists who either lobby libertarians on behalf of the government, provide the media with an "authoritative" but wrong definition of us, or both. It isn't a type of libertarian, it's a type of beltway critter.

Gottcha, thanks

Then I can add another name to the list: Peter Theil, redefining libertarianism.

 

[acptulsa]

Then I can add another name to the list: Peter Theil, redefining libertarianism.

If I were printing a dictionary I'd put his picture in the entry for belt'-way lib'-er-tar'-i-an

 

[nikcers]

The magnet is our free society and wealthy economy.
I'd rather not remove either.

We can remove the extra magnets, but that won't fix the problem by itself.

The biggest magnet was that if you come here illegally you get to be free and you get to stay here.

We aren't removing the part where you get to be free if you come here legally.

 

[Anti Federalist]

That's naturalization, not immigration.

I think the two are interchangeable in this context but the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798 specifically addresses non citizen immigrants.

It granted the Executive branch power to apprehend, restrain and remove persons who were citizens of nations at war with the US.

It also granted the Executive branch the authority to remove any noncitizen deemed a threat to the "peace and safety" of the US.

There was also the 1864 Immigration Act which established a Commissioner of Immigration, among other things.