I don't believe in Jesus Christ

[erowe1]

Then again, atheists aren't threatening Jesus with eternal damnation and suffering if he doesn't.

Wait, this sounds familiar. What else uses threats of violence to coerce obedience? I think it starts with an S.

Eternal damnation isn't a threat of violence. It's a threat of allowing people to be in the state of sin apart from God's grace that they are naturally in and wish to stay in.

I have an easier time seeing salvation as an act of violence, where God moves someone from the place their heart naturally inclines to something else. But the result of this act of violence is eternal blessedness with Him.

 

[erowe1]

I don't believe that's true, TC.

I think Jesus believes in everyone, and He holds out hope that all will come to believe in Him.

Pardon me for speaking for TC, but I think what he meant was that Jesus doesn't believe that any atheists actually exist.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Eternal damnation isn't a threat of violence. It's a threat of allowing people to be in the state of sin apart from God's grace that they are naturally in and wish to stay in.

I have an easier time seeing salvation as an act of violence, where God moves someone from the place their heart naturally inclines to something else. But the result of this act of violence is eternal blessedness with Him.

Will the people who are in Hell be happy to be there? In what sense?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes. It's better technically to say that all 3 Persons share equally in the divine nature. If you say it like that, you avoid the charge of tri-theism.

Good point. Thanks. ~hugs~

 

[Sola_Fide]

orly?

How about Unitarianism?

What about it? It's so plainly contradicted by the Bible it didn't need to be brought up.

 

[erowe1]

Will the people who are in Hell be happy to be there? In what sense?

I don't think so. But people who willfully choose sin, even in this life, often experience displeasure with their own choice. People in Hell will be unrepentant and willful in their continuance in sin. Their lot will only be the natural and neutral one of anyone who is merely left to be among that mass of humanity that is what it is.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Eternal damnation isn't a threat of violence. It's a threat of allowing people to be in the state of sin apart from God's grace that they are naturally in and wish to stay in.

I have an easier time seeing salvation as an act of violence, where God moves someone from the place their heart naturally inclines to something else. But the result of this act of violence is eternal blessedness with Him.

I agree with that. Salvation is an act of force on man's will.

 

[VIDEODROME]

Okay so any random person dies that doesn't believe, or believes wrongly like the Hindus do(according to some people).

Hindu dies and is surprised to see Jesus. Is offered the choice of Heaven or Hell. Picks Heaven..... duh. Happy ending.

Is this about right?

If it's this simple, maybe we don't even have to worry so much about this stuff. Just live our lives and enjoy time on Earth. Then we die and just pick heaven. Hell just doesn't have a good reputation.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Okay so any random person dies that doesn't believe, or believes wrongly like the Hindus do(according to some people).

Hindu dies and is surprised to see Jesus. Is offered the choice of Heaven or Hell. Picks Heaven..... duh. Happy ending.

Is this about right?

If it's this simple, maybe we don't even have to worry so much about this stuff. Just live our lives and enjoy time on Earth. Then we die and just pick heaven. Hell just doesn't have a good reputation.

That is NOT how it works.

 

[erowe1]

Okay so any random person dies that doesn't believe, or believes wrongly like the Hindus do(according to some people).

Hindu dies and is surprised to see Jesus. Is offered the choice of Heaven or Hell. Picks Heaven..... duh. Happy ending.

Is this about right?

If it's this simple, maybe we don't even have to worry so much about this stuff. Just live our lives and enjoy time on Earth. Then we die and just pick heaven. Hell just doesn't have a good reputation.

The biggest problem I see with this is when you say "picks Heaven."

Hell may have a bad reputation. But the human race, save for Jesus Christ, has unanimously agreed that it is the destiny of their choosing.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Okay so any random person dies that doesn't believe, or believes wrongly like the Hindus do(according to some people).

Hindu dies and is surprised to see Jesus. Is offered the choice of Heaven or Hell. Picks Heaven..... duh. Happy ending.

Is this about right?

If it's this simple, maybe we don't even have to worry so much about this stuff. Just live our lives and enjoy time on Earth. Then we die and just pick heaven. Hell just doesn't have a good reputation.

No. Salvation isn't about what man picks. Salvation is about how God will save His people. Even in this life, when man "picks" or "chooses", he only does that because God has first made His choice for that person. Salvation is all of God and none of man.

 

[VIDEODROME]

So God made me an Atheist?

 

[Christian Liberty]

So God made me an Atheist?

Haha... SF is going to have fun with this one

(For the record, the answer I would give is that God created you as you are, but that this fact does not negate your responsibility to repent and believe.)

 

[Sola_Fide]

So God made me an Atheist?

God has commanded all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel, including you. But your atheism is no surprise to God. God is completely sovereign over your unbelief right now. I pray He opens your eyes and gives you a heart of flesh, but if He never does that, He is just to condemn you for your sin against Him and other people.

 

[erowe1]

So God made me an Atheist?

Whatever it is that you are, would you like God to change that? He can.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Whatever it is that you are, would you like God to change that? He can.

I like this answer.

 

[VIDEODROME]

Some money in the bank would help me out.

 

[Terry1]

Some money in the bank would help me out.

God said you have not because you've not asked. It would be amusing to see an atheist come to the Lord because He answered your prayer for a lot of money. ROFL.

Then you'd have to give some to me because I gave you a heads up on that.

 

[Brett85]

God has commanded all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel, including you.

But according to you, God intentionally blinds the vast majority of people and never even allows them to see the truth and have the chance to be saved.

 

[VIDEODROME]

What if it's God's plan for me to be an Atheist? If I started to be Christian would that mean Satan was pushing me against God's plan?