Freddie Gray severed his own spinal cord

[Brian4Liberty]

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...
More: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989

 

[phill4paul]

OK, and what does that have to do with anything I said? Also, I don't understand what the obsession here is with pot, in my town the cops don't even bother with pot, despite what many of you think most cops don't get up every day saying "I can't wait to go get me some pot heads", pretty much every cop I know would like pot to be legal, they hate wasting their time on it.

You're shitting me, right? Every hour a cop stands in court is over time effectively doubling his income over the course of a year. If you knew any cops you would know this. Good try.

 

[dillo]

Im not a medical doctor, But I trouble believing you can sever 80% of your spinal cord by banging your head against a wall.

 

[euphemia]

Here is my issue: There were six police officers on this arrest. There are fewer adults on a [youth organization staffed by volunteers] field trip. And those adults have a very high degree of liability. Police need to be very clear that if they are not going to assume full responsibility for the person in their custody, they should hand off the arrest to people who will assume it and do it without harm to the suspect.

 

[JK/SEA]

Here is my issue: There were six police officers on this arrest. There are fewer adults on a [youth organization staffed by volunteers] field trip. And those adults have a very high degree of liability. Police need to be very clear that if they are not going to assume full responsibility for the person in their custody, they should hand off the arrest to people who will assume it and do it without harm to the suspect.

its nice to dream ain't it..

meanwhile, back in the locker room, plans are being hatched.

 

[HankRicther12]

Right, same with my town. You must live in a town with few minorities like me.

U.S. Prison Population As Of Jan. 25, 2014

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/10/war-on-drugs-prisons-infographic_n_4914884.html

OK, very impressive, but few things, first off, "drug offenses" can mean many things, don't just say pot then change the subject into something much bigger. Second, as any cop would tell you, most times they are not dealing with someone because of drugs, they are dealing with them for something else and then they happen to have drugs on them and it gets added to the charges, I know this, I used to work in a jail, and I suppose now I'll get all the stories about it being planted.

Look, I'm all for ending the drug war, not sure if some of you are under the impression I'm not, so if you are trying to convince me in that direction, not necessary. But for now they are illegal, it is what it is, for someone to cry "racism" or "police brutality" for getting arrested for something they are guilty of (whether it should be a crime or not) is simply dishonest. I want to solve the problem of our ever growing govt as much as the rest of you, but as I said to someone else, making statements that can easily be debunked hurts a cause, it doesn't help it.

 

[euphemia]

I think people are going to do more and more to evade arrest as law becomes more restrictive than it already is. I think we all need to take a step back, look at what we currently have, and see if it's really the kind of law enforcement we want.

Maybe the answer is not to be more restrictive on the citizens, but to hold them responsible for their own great liberty and create a community where we expect people to live responsibly. We've seen one mom who stepped up to the job with her son. The community has really latched on to that, and maybe we will see leadership start going in a different direction. By leadership, I don't mean elected officials. I mean the people in the community who live side by side with people who are breaking law in a serious way.

I probably didn't explain that very well, but maybe you will get what I mean.

 

[HankRicther12]

You're shitting me, right? Every hour a cop stands in court is over time effectively doubling his income over the course of a year. If you knew any cops you would know this. Good try.

You really are ignorant aren't you. Most of the cops I know hate sitting in court, paid or not, believe it or not they have families and like to enjoy their day off as much as the next person.

The bulk of the money they bring goes to the cities/townships to pay for all the nanny stuff the citizens want and the politician promise to get elected, but yeah, let's show how stupid we all are and blame it on the every day cop.

Oh, FYI, I worked in a jail so I know many cops, I also know 4 of the cops in my town just got laid off - so much for doubling their salaries, dumbass.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

OK, very impressive, but few things, first off, "drug offenses" can mean many things, don't just say pot then change the subject into something much bigger. Second, as any cop would tell you, most times they are not dealing with someone because of drugs, they are dealing with them for something else and then they happen to have drugs on them and it gets added to the charges, I know this, I used to work in a jail, and I suppose now I'll get all the stories about it being planted.

Look, I'm all for ending the drug war, not sure if some of you are under the impression I'm not, so if you are trying to convince me in that direction, not necessary. But for now they are illegal, it is what it is, for someone to cry "racism" or "police brutality" for getting arrested for something they are guilty of (whether it should be a crime or not) is simply dishonest. I want to solve the problem of our ever growing govt as much as the rest of you, but as I said to someone else, making statements that can easily be debunked hurts a cause, it doesn't help it.

Talking about easily debunked, if they were guilty of something else and they also just happened to find drugs on them, they they would be convicted for that something else, also. The numbers are not out of balance because the criminal convictions are balanced. Logic says that the extreme spike in drug convictions as compared to everything else, is due to the number of people convicted of drugs alone.

Do you have any actual data to back up the assertion that a plurality, or even a large portion of that summary are also serving time for other, more serious offenses?

If you catch a rapist and he also happens to have a joint, you convict him on rape, and tack on the drug charge. That is NOT "in prison for drugs."

 

[Carlybee]

Last census, 14,000.

You can't possibly compare that to what goes on in a large city. Your cops may not want to mess with pot because they are probably spread too thin. Here in the big city they want as many arrests for anything because they make overtime when they show up to court.
It's not unusual for a cop to make an extra 20 grand a year in overtime by doing the court follow ups on their arrests.

 

[Carlybee]

You really are ignorant aren't you. Most of the cops I know hate sitting in court, paid or not, believe it or not they have families and like to enjoy their day off as much as the next person.

The bulk of the money they bring goes to the cities/townships to pay for all the nanny stuff the citizens want and the politician promise to get elected, but yeah, let's show how stupid we all are and blame it on the every day cop.

Oh, FYI, I worked in a jail so I know many cops, I also know 4 of the cops in my town just got laid off - so much for doubling their salaries, dumbass.

So you're a jailer?

 

[HankRicther12]

So you're a jailer?

WAS a jailer, not anymore.

 

[JK/SEA]

So you're a jailer?

doesn't get anymore 'liberty' and 'freedom' than that, does it?...lol..

wow...who let the dogs out?

 

[AuH20]

WAS a jailer, not anymore.

You probably have some crazy tales. I wouldn't be able to hang around all that negativity.

 

[HankRicther12]

You can't possibly compare that to what goes on in a large city. Your cops may not want to mess with pot because they are probably spread too thin. Here in the big city they want as many arrests for anything because they make overtime when they show up to court.
It's not unusual for a cop to make an extra 20 grand a year in overtime by doing the court follow ups on their arrests.

How is it not fair? I hear over and over the hatred of COPS, not COPS in big cities, not COPS who break the law, but COPS. I also dealt with cops in big cities all the time, the jail I worked at was in a fairly large city and we housed people from all over. Now sure, every department had "that cop", but I have to tell you, these monsters you guys are all talking about for the most part don't exist.

But even on that note, it's also obvious that most of you are quite sheltered as to the kinda stuff regular every day citizens will do. Just once I'd like to see some of you handle some of these people. Trust me, I got plenty of complaints thrown at me, which is why - and this is one thing I agree with all of you on - I quit, I was just sick of all the crap, so I realized, I don't have to work here.

Oh, one last thing, I don't know who started that "overtime" rumor but this is now the 2nd time I've heard it and I can tell you that it is for the most part BS. These cops HATE doing paperwork (as I did), they HATE showing up in court (as I did), I hate to break it to you but I did not enjoy coming in on my day off, overtime or not, neither did they. I can tell you for a fact most of those guys would like nothing more than to get in their cruiser, drive around for 8hrs and listen to the radio, again, there is always "that cop", but I am speaking about the majority of them. They are generally instructed to do this or that and beyond that they respond to calls from citizens, it's not like they make the 911 call.

 

[HankRicther12]

You probably have some crazy tales. I wouldn't be able to hang around all that negativity.

Lol, big reason I quit.

 

[Elias Graves]

I work with people who have spinal cord injuries every day. I've heard their stories about how they got that way, read the medical histories, seen the x rays. It's not especially easy to fracture one vertebra, let alone three and crush a larynx on top of that.
Now, I haven't heard which three vertebrae were damaged but I'll assume they were cervical due to the larynx injury.
Crushing a larynx is a very difficult thing to do as well. It required a lot of force applied in a very specific place.
I have tried to conceive circumstances whereby a handcuffed man could induce these injuries upon himself. I have tried to conceive circumstances where a man rolling loose in the back of a van could sustain these injuries without a vehicle crash.
I can't come up with anything.
To do both of those injuries to himself, the only way I can think of it happening is maybe riding a motorcycle into a "clothesline" pole right into your neck, crushing the larynx, snapping the head forward with enough force to also fracture the vertebrae.
Even that circumstance, however, is highly unlikely. The spine at the cervical area has natural flexion in the forward direction. One can easily bend one's head forward to touch the chin to the chest without damage. The head must snap backwards or be subjected to a severe blow from above (compression fracture) to accomplish these injuries.
Inside a van that I assume has no "clothesline" pole in it, I simply cannot conceive a circumstance under which this injury was self inflicted.
The more likely circumstance was a knee in the throat during the arrest. I know people will often fall limp during an arrest in protest but one can clearly see a look of pain on Gray's face as he's being dragged. The way his feet dragged underneath him were very much in line with how a person with a severed spinal column appears. The feet flopped randomly and what movements I did see were very uncoordinated.
Granted, I haven't seen any more than any of you and I don't like to rush to judgement on things. I have law enforcement officers in my family, one of whom was murdered on duty with his own gun so my sympathies tend to lie with them. This case doesn't look good for the cops, though.
I hope the truth comes out. If these cops did this to him, they are no longer cops, but criminals and they should be punished.

 

[AuH20]

How is it not fair? I hear over and over the hatred of COPS, not COPS in big cities, not COPS who break the law, but COPS. I also dealt with cops in big cities all the time, the jail I worked at was in a fairly large city and we housed people from all over. Now sure, every department had "that cop", but I have to tell you, these monsters you guys are all talking about for the most part don't exist.

But even on that note, it's also obvious that most of you are quite sheltered as to the kinda stuff regular every day citizens will do. Just once I'd like to see some of you handle some of these people. Trust me, I got plenty of complaints thrown at me, which is why - and this is one thing I agree with all of you on - I quit, I was just sick of all the crap, so I realized, I don't have to work here.

Oh, one last thing, I don't know who started that "overtime" rumor but this is now the 2nd time I've heard it and I can tell you that it is for the most part BS. These cops HATE doing paperwork (as I did), they HATE showing up in court (as I did), I hate to break it to you but I did not enjoy coming in on my day off, overtime or not, neither did they. I can tell you for a fact most of those guys would like nothing more than to get in their cruiser, drive around for 8hrs and listen to the radio, again, there is always "that cop", but I am speaking about the majority of them. They are generally instructed to do this or that and beyond that they respond to calls from citizens, it's not like they make the 911 call.

I can imagine it's an incredible crappy job, being repeatedly introduced into others' drama on a daily basis. You couldn't pay me enough to put up with the bullshit. For one, I don't take orders well and probably would be butting heads with my superiors who'd want me to meet a strict arrest and ticket quota. This overall unattractiveness would also explain why we have so many errant cops because if you know what the job actually entails, you wouldn't be doing it. Unless you're working in an affluent county with minimal issues, it's simply not worth it.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I can imagine it's an incredible crappy job, being repeatedly introduced into others' drama on a daily basis. You couldn't pay me enough to put up with the bullshit. For one, I don't take orders well and probably would be butting heads with my superiors who'd want me to meet a strict arrest and ticket quota. This overall unattractiveness would also explain why we have so many errant cops because if you know what the job actually entails, you wouldn't be doing it. Unless you're working in an affluent county with minimal issues, it's simply not worth it.

Which is exactly why there should be no such thing as "career" cops.

Nobody could do that year in and year out without getting, jaded, corrupt or violent or all of the three.

 

[Anti Federalist]