Earth is 9,000 years old, says Rep. Paul Broun, who sits on House Science Committee (start

[Dr.3D]

Interesting stuff!

Not being a scientist and not feeling compelled to read Genesis as science, as it was never intended to be read that way, I don't have an issue believing the universe is by our present measurements tons of years old.

However, humor yourself with this thought: if there is an all powerful God who can perform miracles (after all, He raised Himself from the dead), why can't that same God create the universe with all the hallmarks of greater age then it really has? If God created the rules that govern existence (i.e. physics) He can simply break and manipulate them at a whim. (Read into the theological construct of "occasionalism.")


Now, why on earth would God make dinosaur fossils and stars that we can deduce to be billions of years old, I don't know. We don't have a good reason. But, if one believes in a God that can perform miracles then there is no doubting that He could do it if He wanted to.


The same is true as to why would God create a race in His image, knowingly give them the capacity to sin, and then condemn all to punishment only to simply and seemingly arbitrarily show favor to a few, forgiving their sins by grace giving them the ability to have faith in Him. After all, God created all mankind, and made their nature and circumstances that they all stand condemned. He could have grace on all mankind if He wants to.

He does not. That's a much more important question (which the Bible DOES answer) then whether the earth is 9,000 years old or not.

God can do whatever He wants.

If you are looking for some answers, check out this web site..... http://www.geraldschroeder.com/AccordingToGod.aspx

From that website:

Top Five Religious Myths Popularly Accepted as Fact

The flood ruined the accuracy of scientific methods of dating.
Radioactive Carbon dating is unreliable because the amount of carbon in the atmosphere is always changing.
The Big Bang Theory disproves God (and is therefore heresy).
Dinosaurs are an invention of scientists, as they are never mentioned in the Bible.
Adam was the first of the Homo-Sapiens.

Top Five Scientific Myths Popularly Accepted as Fact

Scientific discoveries and the fossil record have proven Darwin's Theory of the Gradual Evolution of Life.
The Theory of Evolution is based on selection by nature (survival of the fittest) and therefore is not a random process.
The Big Bang Theory disproves God (and affirms atheism).
The mystery of the origin of life has been solved.
Very occasionally monkeys hammering away at typewriters will type out one of Shakespeare's sonnets.

And not to forget the age of the universe and the six days of creation.
http://www.geraldschroeder.com/AgeUniverse.aspx

 

[acptulsa]

So, we've got our panties in a knot over one of the guys who holds the government science grant pursestrings holding unconventional views, as if science couldn't be funded by someone or something other than the government. Then we have twenty-somethings saying the presidential candidates should be able to hide their ignorance behind teleprompters, as if the 'nuclear football' could be handled by someone else.

I know this is just people letting the media do their thinking for them. But my God how ignorant--and frightening--can you get?

 

[ShaneEnochs]

I didn't even know there was a final version of the Bible. Who did put it together?

I guess I used a poor choice of words. I didn't mean final translation; I meant who decided what books were to be included in the Bible. The Council of Carthage decided which books were "canon".

 

[erowe1]

I guess I used a poor choice of words. I didn't mean final translation; I meant who decided what books were to be included in the Bible. The Council of Carthage decided which books were "canon".

Why did that offend them?

 

[erowe1]

if there is an all powerful God who can perform miracles

That's really the issue. It's a matter of worldview. The people having fits about someone believing in a young earth are essentially saying everyone has to share their worldview.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

Why did that offend them?

Because they had the thought in their heads that as soon as stuff happened it was automatically put into the Bible I guess. They didn't want to hear that some gospels just didn't make the cut.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

It only appears that light is billions of years old. This is because time as we are measuring it passes much slower compared to time when the universe was young and much smaller and time passed much faster.

Again I will say, trying to measure time in an expanding universe is no way to discover the age of the universe. You are trying to do something much the same as measuring with a rubber band.

Time is universal. It is constant. What makes it...difficult to understand for some people is that it is relative. In other words, users experience time as a measure of speed. The faster you are moving the slower time is for you. The slower you are moving the faster time is for you. However, at no point does time speed up or put on the brakes. It is you the user that changes - not time.

 

[erowe1]

Time is universal. It is constant. What makes it...difficult to understand for some people is that it is relative. In other words, users experience time as a measure of speed. The faster you are moving the slower time is for you. The slower you are moving the faster time is for you. However, at no point does time speed up or put on the brakes. It is you the user that changes - not time.

I get the part about time being relative.

But what do you mean by time being universal and constant?

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Because they had the thought in their heads that as soon as stuff happened it was automatically put into the Bible I guess. They didn't want to hear that some gospels just didn't make the cut.

All you need to know is that the Head of State of Rome, a Dictatorial Hegemonic Empire, instituted and decided the Council of Nicaea. (Which is I assume what you meant) These 'Bishops' for crying out loud were appointed by Constantine. People who take the Bible as if it emanated from God's 'hands', or whatever, are .... ignorant at best, and brainwashed at worse, by pulpits pushing a certain agenda, and if Christianity has taught us anything since Constantine, is that it enables the State. Early Christianity was glorious - it was radical, voluntary, and had no love or need of the State, or of Government. Tolstoy is probably the closest 'modern' day Christian who resembles what Christianity actually is (e.g. prior to 325AD).

 

[acptulsa]

I get the part about time being relative.

But what do you mean by time being universal and constant?

He's saying that as the train approaches, the Doppler effect makes the horn sound higher in pitch, and as it goes past you the Doppler effect makes it sound lower in pitch, but the pitch the horn is actually producing is constant.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I get the part about time being relative.

But what do you mean by time being universal and constant?

Time is everywhere, just like gravity, or say, the speed of light. It is constant in that, it flows uniformly - forward. It isn't time that 'speeds up or slows down' it is you - the mass or being and your speed denotes how you experience time.

This is why satellites in Earth orbit have to have corrections to match Earth time, because they are moving slightly slower than the Earth. We are whizzing through space - hence our experience of time is different than say, if you were on Jupiter, but time doesn't suddenly speed up or slow down through the fabric of space-time you are moving through. That is what I mean by uniform. It is the object that changes, not time.

 

[erowe1]

These 'Bishops' for crying out loud were appointed by Constantine.

What do you base that on?

 

[Dr.3D]

Time is universal. It is constant. What makes it...difficult to understand for some people is that it is relative. In other words, users experience time as a measure of speed. The faster you are moving the slower time is for you. The slower you are moving the faster time is for you. However, at no point does time speed up or put on the brakes. It is you the user that changes - not time.

Please read this page so you will understand what I was talking about.
http://www.geraldschroeder.com/AgeUniverse.aspx

 

[erowe1]

Time is everywhere, just like gravity, or say, the speed of light. It is constant in that, it flows uniformly - forward.

Why do you think that?

This is why satellites in Earth orbit have to have corrections to match Earth time, because they are moving slightly slower than the Earth. We are whizzing through space - hence our experience of time is different than say, if you were on Jupiter.

So then, time doesn't flow uniformly.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

What do you base that on?

The historians that documented the event? What else would I base it by?

 

[acptulsa]

Why do you think that?


So then, time doesn't flow uniformly.

Are you saying that a train horn doesn't put out a uniform tone because it sounds higher as the train approaches and lower as the train recedes? It isn't the horn that differs, it's your relation to it.

 

[erowe1]

The historians that documented the event?

Like Eusebius?

Does he actually say that?

What else would I base it by?

Oh, I don't know. Sometimes people make claims like that with no real basis.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Why do you think that?


So then, time doesn't flow uniformly.

Yes, it does. I know it sounds unintuitive to you (perfectly logical for me /shrug), but time doesn't change - it is the object's experience that does. You think time moves faster in the space-time position that the mass inhabits as it moves? No, it ticks at the same pace, for eternity. It is the EXPERIENCE, that changes. It isn't that time slows down or speeds up, it is YOU that does. Your speed effects your experience of time (hence relativity).

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Are you saying that a train horn doesn't put out a uniform tone because it sounds higher as the train approaches and lower as the train recedes? It isn't the horn that differs, it's your relation to it.

Precisely, the conductor hears the same sound for as long as he remains in his position. Voila! Relativity explained pretty concisely.

 

[erowe1]

Are you saying that a train horn doesn't put out a uniform tone because it sounds higher as the train approaches and lower as the train recedes? It isn't the horn that differs, it's your relation to it.

That's not an illustration of the relativity of time. That's the Doppler effect.

But even with that, I don't see in that illustration anything that would correspond to some universal constant "time" that is out there like what it seemed like AED was saying.