Did you see the last of cspan

I am from Texas and illegal immigrants don't bother me. Most of them are good, honest, and hard working. Like all classes, some few of them suck. The idea of a fence reminds me of the Berlin Wall.

That's my experience too. I can understand people being upset by being forced by the government to help support immigrants. But if an immigrant had the bad luck of being born in a more totalitarian society and want to come someplace like the U.S. to be left alone to build a life and earn a living, who cares? In the market, there's plenty of work and products for everyone.
 
Here's his position on the issue as I understand it:

- He's against illegal immigration (obviously), and wants to bring the border guard back from Iraq to secure the borders

- He believes the reason people are motivated to come here illegally is because we don't enforce our laws against illegal immigrants, and we go further by providing services (free health care, free education, etc.)

- He wants to eliminate those incentives, and stop providing those services (in addition to securing the borders to make it more difficult to enter the country in the first place)

- He believes that if our economy were what it could be, we would have a large need to import lots of legal immigrants to fill the many low-paying jobs that a healthy economy creates.

I'm not sure I understand what he means when he talks about illegals and scapegoats, but the positions I outlined above do make sense to me.

Funny, cause I wrote a blog post about this earlier, http://causeoffreedom.blogspot.com/2007/12/12-immigration-and-language-barrier.html

a lot of the strong border people seem to have some real misconceptions about ronpaul views on immigration which he talks about really in depth at the morgan state debate
 
When illegal immigration was brought up? I was very upset with Ron Paul's remarks. Did I hear them right? That he thinks that Americans are upset with illegal immigration because of the economy. And that we wouldn't mind them being here if we were all prospering? I believe I heard that Hillary said that also( on Rush today). That is not at all the reason I am upset with illegal immigration. It makes it look like we are making the illegals a scapegoat.

If you were prospering economically, and so were all other Americans who wanted to work, and there was no welfare system, what would you have against some people who have waited in line legally immigrating to the US with a legal, approved work visa?
 
Thank you all for your replies. It sounded to me as though Ron Paul was saying that we wouldn't mind ILLEGAL immigration and I was just sick to my stomach about it. As for me that is my number one issue in this election. In reality our tax money is supporting Mexico and all other countries of the people that come here illegally.
 
If anyone doesn't understand why people are very worried, they need to read State of Emergency by Pat Buchanan.
 
If you were prospering economically, and so were all other Americans who wanted to work, and there was no welfare system, what would you have against some people who have waited in line legally immigrating to the US with a legal, approved work visa?

I have no problem with LEGAL immigration.
 
immigration is one more thing that americans can learn from canadians. you have a harmonious

society in canada and no illegal immigration problem to the extent we have in the US. this is

because the government gives a fair chance to skilled people to emigrate. one thing i like

about canada is that they don't believe in maintaining status quo. they know that the world is

dynamic and like it or not the status quo will have to go sometime whether we like it or not.

its no use trying to stop immigration all together in the USA because like it or not people are

going to come here. america is after all the land of immigrants. every single one of the

american citizens with the exception of the native americans are immigrants.
 
immigration is one more thing that americans can learn from canadians. you have a harmonious

society in canada and no illegal immigration problem to the extent we have in the US. this is

because the government gives a fair chance to skilled people to emigrate. one thing i like

about canada is that they don't believe in maintaining status quo. they know that the world is

dynamic and like it or not the status quo will have to go sometime whether we like it or not.

its no use trying to stop immigration all together in the USA because like it or not people are

going to come here. america is after all the land of immigrants. every single one of the

american citizens with the exception of the native americans are immigrants.

also... canada doesn't share aborder with a developing nation, even I will concede that, same thing with the swiss, this where pure libertarians tend to be to idealistic about immigration


My stance on the current immigration system:

welfare state/trade agreements = unfree market = ill effects from excessive immigration
non interventionism = free market = international prosperity and good job market which gives way for more relaxed border policies

immigration and border policies two different issuesin my book
 
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That's my experience too. I can understand people being upset by being forced by the government to help support immigrants. But if an immigrant had the bad luck of being born in a more totalitarian society and want to come someplace like the U.S. to be left alone to build a life and earn a living, who cares? In the market, there's plenty of work and products for everyone.

Yes. Immigrants are NOT the problem... at ALL. Almost everyone in America is from an immigrant background at some point. Actually, EVERYONE, if you include immigration thousands of years ago.

I have an idea of my own policy preference here...

I think step one is to end welfare, "nanny state" benefits for any illegal immigrants.

Step two is to secure the border. Make it harder to just walk in.

Step three is to make legal immigration easier. Not amnesty--if someone is currently here illegally and wants to become legal, they should go back to their home country and apply at the Embassy. The current legal immigration options are ridiculously convoluted compared to similar countries--Canada, Australia, etc.--even for people who have major advantages such as being the WIFE of an American citizen!--never mind those who are trying to make it on their own. No one would voluntarily go back now to wait in line b/c they know the line is ridiculously long and the chances of getting back to the US within the next year legally are zero. Let's fix that, and allow decent people who want to immigrate legally do so, in a reasonable time frame, respecting them along the way instead of treating them with suspicion.



You need all three to accomplish this. As long as free benefits exist here, better than the benefits that you can get in Mexico while working, people will come. If there's no one watching the border, people will come in great numbers. And as long as legal immigration is so difficult as to be unreachable for most, people will choose the quick and easy option and just come illegally.
 
When illegal immigration was brought up? I was very upset with Ron Paul's remarks. Did I hear them right? That he thinks that Americans are upset with illegal immigration because of the economy. And that we wouldn't mind them being here if we were all prospering? I believe I heard that Hillary said that also( on Rush today). That is not at all the reason I am upset with illegal immigration. It makes it look like we are making the illegals a scapegoat.

What he was saying is that we coudl have legal iimigranst galore if our economy is failing and taht teh current situations is further draining our economy....he was consistent!
 
And I'll add that in my experience, the economy - more specifically, jobs - is a huge reason why average Americans are upset with immigration.

They believe that illegal immigrants are taking their jobs, and not just illegal immigrants, any immigrants.

I'm sure you've heard this sentiment.

We don't need to secure our border as a matter of national security any more than we need to cordon off our federal buildings. People in other nations aren't inherently bad people. Not any more so - and perhaps much less so - than the people we have right here at home. Why should we be any more afraid of people coming across our border to attack us? Don't you think the people here could do just as much?

Are you worried about terrorists crossing our border? Not one single "Al Qaeda sleeper cell" has been found in our country. Not one, for all of their police state activities and their violations of our liberties and sweeping up of innocent people, they have not found one.

We should be more worried about domestic terrorists if you want to worry. Have we already forgotten Oklahoma City? We have done nothing will could stop another Oklahoma City. But I don't see anyone worrying about that. I'm not worry about that either.

We should be more worried about our lawless, unprovoked attacks on other sovereign nations in the Middle East and around the world. If we want to live in a state of terror, if we want suicide bombers in our streets like you find in Israel, then our current policies are a sure way to get them here and GROW them here.


Fear is not the answer. Building walls and bunkers is not the answer. Peace and trade and liberty are the answer!
 
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From Chapter 3 'Coming to America', State of Emergency by Pat Buchanan "An Assembly Line of Diseases."

Because the vast majority of immigrants, legal and illegal, now come from rural areas, towns, and cities of the most impoverished nations of the hemisphere, where sanitation is often poor and health care nonexistent, they impose other costs upon the American people.

High among these is the appearance among us of diseases that never before afflicted us and the sudden reappearances of contagious diseases that researchers and doctors eradicated long ago. Malaria, polio, hepatitis, tuberculosis, and such rarities of the Third World as dengue, fever, Chagas' disease, and leprosy are surfacing here. In the states that border Mexico, writers NewsMax.com columnist George Putnam, there is "a steady, silent, pervasive invasion of the United States by an unarmed army carrying an assembly line of diseases into the heart of America."

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, writes author-columnist Phyllis Schlafly, "reported 38,291 Californian cases of tuberculosis that included Multiple Drug Resistant Tuberculosis, which is 60 percent fatal and for which treatment costs $200,000 to $1,200,000 per patient. Illegal aliens are also bringing in syphilis and gonorrhea. Bedbugs have invaded the United States for the first time in 50 years, with 28 states reporting recent infestations."

In May 2006, the New York Times reported that one in every seven East Asian immigrants in the city, as many as 1000,000 people, is a carrier of hepatitis B--an infection rate thirty-five times that of the general population. ALmost all the new measles cases in America are brought in from abroad.

John W. Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute cites a report by the Center for Immigration Studies entitled "Immigration's Silent Invasion, Deadly Consequences." "The invasion of illegal aliens pouring over borders of the United States in taking an ominous turn. They are not alone! Their bodies may carry Hepatitis A, B, & C, tuberculosis, leprosy and Chagas Disease. Chagas is a nasty parasitic bug common in Latin America where 18 million people are infected and 50,000 deaths occur annually."

For forty years, only 900 cases of leprosy or Hansen's disease had been diagnosed in the United States; in the first three years of the twenty-first century, 7,000 cases were discovered. Some of the TB diagnosed in now the multi-drug resistant strain. In 2002, northern Virginia reported a 17 percent surge in tuberculosis cases; in Prince William County, the increase was a staggering 188 percent. In northern Virginia, foreign-born accounted for 92 percent of all cases. Three countries all of which send immigrants and illegal aliens to Ameirca, account for two-thirds of all TB cases: Mexico, Vietnam, and the Philippines.

The New York Academy of Sciences reports that "TB bacteria readily fly through the air, as when an afflicted person coughs. It's estimated that each victim will infect 10, 20, or more people--in time bomb effect" Whitehead ends his "Deadly Invasion" commentary with a question: "What does this mean for America?' He answers:

"It means your children are at risk when attending school or going to the movies. It means that when a classmate from a foreign country sneezes or coughs, your child may be at risk for any number of diseases. If you eat at a fast food restaurant, a person infected with hepatitis could prepare your food. If you need a blood transfusion, the blood could be infected with Chagas Disease."

The incidence of TB is ten times as high among immigrants as among our native-born. Among immigrant children it is 100 times as high. The famous phrase from the 1980s report about our failing public schools, A Nation at Risk, has taken on an ominous new meaning.
 
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From Chapter 3 Coming to America of State of Emergency by Pat Buchanan "An Assembly Line of Diseases."

Yes, Pat Buchanan is a protectionist.

But we're here to support Ron Paul.

If you want to debate the value or correctness of Congressman Paul's positions, please create a thread in General Politics & Other or Hot Topics.
 
Ron Paul wants to physically secure the borders immediately, is against amnesty, is against birthright citizenship, voted for the fence (even thought its not his first choice), wants to bring the guard back from Iraq to secure the borders, and wants to eliminate entitlements for illegal aliens.

He has a very tough stance against illegal immigration.
 
Unless you are from a border state, I don't think you realize the problem illegal immigration has become in those states (I'm from AZ). It's not solely an issue regarding removing the magnets.

Firstly, let me say that I grew up with many illegal immigrants and most of them are good people. I am not disputing that. However, people like to bring up that all Americans descended from immigrants. That's also true. The difference between the immigration then and now is the scale. There's been more immigrants in the last 25 years or so than all other immigrants in American history. And many of them are going to the southern states.

I know many citizens who have moved out of state from Phoenix, while there are vast numbers of illegal immigrants moving in. If immigration is made legal and easy, I see no reason why immigrants would not continue to move into the state, near their home country, which in turn would cause more citizens to move out.

So this is the problem - Why would a state, which in a few decades would be mostly comprised of Mexican first or second generation immigrants, have allegiance toward America ahead of Mexico, which is right next door, with which they share a culture and language? It's not like Italy 100 years ago, where people could not go back and forth very easily. For instance, if for some reason Mexico and America were at war, which side would the state side with?

I think the problem is whenever people bring this up, people claim they are racist. That's not true. I wouldn't want Arizona to become a state with more allegiance to Canada, or to Jamaica, or to South Korea, or whatever.

The good thing about RP, though, is that he respects state's rights. And if last election's referendums are any indication, people are going to have to learn English to have any impact on politics in the state. That would divert the flow of immigrants to another state until that state does something about it.
 
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I am from Texas and illegal immigrants don't bother me. Most of them are good, honest, and hard working. Like all classes, some few of them suck. The idea of a fence reminds me of the Berlin Wall.

Not where I was in TX. They create ghettos, don't speak the language, and don't know how to drive according to our laws. I watched one get arrested today for causing some problems with violence.

They shouldn't be here and they are creating a change in the culture of cities and how areas are being run down. I've lived in San Antonio and Phoenix and to say the cities haven't changed tremendously is willful blindness.
 
The other requirement of requiring understanding of English may grate against some. This I think is important for reasons of safety of the person immigrating. A perfect example of this is that guy in Canada who flew in on a plane but did not understand English. He was tazered and as such resulted in his death.

First quote in the "so you want to become a US citizen phrasebook" is:

Don't taze me bro! :D
 
I think he only wants to end birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants. He should have made that part of his answer.
 
Unless you are from a border state, I don't think you realize the problem illegal immigration has become in those states (I'm from AZ). It's not solely an issue regarding removing the magnets.

We see it up here in the midwest because they are flooding up here. While shopping at my local grocery store, which is a large company that is almost exclusively in midwestern America, they put in my bag a "Hiring" piece of paper. The requirement was that you must speak Spanish. There is like four families of illegals living in a short bus in the parking lot of this grocery store. They are filthy as if they have never taken a bath in their life.
 
I grew up on the east coast, big hispanic community, but almost everyone is legal, so I won't say ihave much experience in the matter, but I agree with RP strongly in a philosophical sense
 
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