Did you see the last of cspan

[margomaps]

Here's his position on the issue as I understand it:

- He's against illegal immigration (obviously), and wants to bring the border guard back from Iraq to secure the borders

- He believes the reason people are motivated to come here illegally is because we don't enforce our laws against illegal immigrants, and we go further by providing services (free health care, free education, etc.)

- He wants to eliminate those incentives, and stop providing those services (in addition to securing the borders to make it more difficult to enter the country in the first place)

- He believes that if our economy were what it could be, we would have a large need to import lots of legal immigrants to fill the many low-paying jobs that a healthy economy creates.

I'm not sure I understand what he means when he talks about illegals and scapegoats, but the positions I outlined above do make sense to me.

 

[Paul4Prez]

What's the end results

When illegal immigration was brought up? I was very upset with Ron Paul's remarks. Did I hear them right? That he thinks that Americans are upset with illegal immigration because of the economy. And that we wouldn't mind them being here if we were all prospering? I believe I heard that Hillary said that also( on Rush today). That is not at all the reason I am upset with illegal immigration. It makes it look like we are making the illegals a scapegoat.

You may not like the way he said it, but consider what impact Ron Paul's policies would have on illegal immigration. Would taking away the incentives reduce it? Of course it would.

Hillary may say some of the same things (she says a lot of different things, depending on what she thinks the audience wants to hear), but she would do nothing to reduce welfare for illegal aliens, or anyone else.

 

[0zzy]

Um, we are talking a 10' high double fence with sensors on it.

I would actually opt for a steel and concrete wall if I had a preference, but that doesn't seem to be the choice.

Dynomiteeeee

 

[Patronus]

CAPITALISM: A TREATISE ON ECONOMICS

The only legitimate argument against unrestricted Mexican immigration (or unrestricted immigration of any other ethnic group) is based on the existence of our welfare state. To the extent that Mexicans come here and go on welfare and medicaid, or use public hospitals and public schools, and place an increased burden on government-subsidized public transportation facilities and so forth, then, it is true, there is a genuine loss imposed on the people already here. The solution, however, is not to violate the right of the Mexicans to immigrate, but to start dismantling our welfare state.

I'm pretty sure Ron Paul agrees with the libertarian stance on immigration - he however understands that most Americans do not. Dismantling the welfare state is the primary deterrent for illegal immigration. After that less restrictive legal immigration should be welcome into this country. There is no need for a wall.

Any other argument is based mostly in xenophobia.

 

[ThomasJ]

Here is the problem. (By the way I live in Arizona if you do not live in CA, NM, or TX you really do not know what this problem really is.)

Our system of immigration is one of the most corrupt systems around rather than giving everyone an equal chance the rich are given top billing.
Plus you have to sign up for a lottery to get here and pay a filling fee that can be pricey. All these things make coming here legally nearly impossible.

On top of that most employers in states like AZ will hire illegals over naturalized because they do not have the same costs involved. In the construction industry here in AZ there is not a single framing crew I have ever meet that did NOT have illegal aliens in it if not be fully comprised with such.

We really do need immigrants in this country to survive. The difficulties with getting in legal means they go illegal.

Step one.
Remove the free programs for illegals. This will lower the demand for incoming persons with less than good intentions who come here illegally.

Step two.
Convert the immigration process into a two stage process.
Minimum requirements for immigration; no diseases, speak English, pass a test on the constitution and US history.
part 1. work programs for those who do not meet the minimum requirements.
As in a bi-lingual working program for those who are poor for instance but cannot speak English. This would be run by standard businesses they would have to meet all the requirements for new hires etc of the current system with the exception of English. Allow the free market to hire as necessary but only allow in people for who an employer is in need of hiring.
part 2. as the individual can meet the requirements allow them to re-apply.

The reason I think we need a work program is that there is alot of employers that could use the labor but at the same time some people are not willing to assimilate into the populace. For those people that so choose could stay in the work program as they need. At the same time this would lower the demand for coming here illegally which is the biggest problem in the equation. You will never completely get rid of illegal immigration but you could curb the vast majority of it.

The other requirement of requiring understanding of English may grate against some. This I think is important for reasons of safety of the person immigrating. A perfect example of this is that guy in Canada who flew in on a plane but did not understand English. He was tazered and as such resulted in his death.
Other examples could be trying to navigate on roadways etc. The vast majority of people speak English in the US and as such people coming into the country really need to be able to melt into the great melting pot that is this country.



In closing immigration is vital to this country and is one of the defining features that made this country great (until the neocons took over)

One other point. If the NAU is to succeed then all the immigration reform in the world will become completely irrelevant.

 

[Hurricane Bruiser]

I personally would like to see reduced immigration both legal and illegal because I am tired of seeing our beautiful countryside turned into housing developments. I also worry about the criminals slipping over our border and I worry about the effects on our economy of mandated benefits to illegals.

 

[NoxTwilight]

CAPITALISM: A TREATISE ON ECONOMICS


I'm pretty sure Ron Paul agrees with the libertarian stance on immigration - he however understands that most Americans do not. Dismantling the welfare state is the primary deterrent for illegal immigration. After that less restrictive legal immigration should be welcome into this country. There is no need for a wall.

Any other argument is based mostly in xenophobia.

Not only that but something NO ONE ever talks about - giving them the incentive to make their own country better! Our forefathers died for our rights, we didn't have a great country to go running to for a better life - we made OUR country great. I really think this is the answer to this problem and the future of this continent. Sure it will be very hard and take a while to accomplish however I think the rest of the world would be behind them.

But maybe I'm naive.

 

[literatim]

You may not like the way he said it, but consider what impact Ron Paul's policies would have on illegal immigration. Would taking away the incentives reduce it? Of course it would.

Their biggest incentive is that they get paid more here. That incentive will not go away.

Dynomiteeeee

It would be detected and the border patrol or National Guard would immediately be able to see what has happened. Plus your average illegal immigrant can't even afford wire cutters, not alone dynamite.

 

[ggibson1]

This is how the world has worked for 1000s of years

When illegal immigration was brought up? I was very upset with Ron Paul's remarks. Did I hear them right? That he thinks that Americans are upset with illegal immigration because of the economy. And that we wouldn't mind them being here if we were all prospering? I believe I heard that Hillary said that also( on Rush today). That is not at all the reason I am upset with illegal immigration. It makes it look like we are making the illegals a scapegoat.

There is nothing wrong with having immigrant workers... it is normal and useful...

The problem is illegals and especially illegals that come in large numbers...

If we want to allow cheap labor in then that is a good thing... when the rules we setup are followed.

 

[ggibson1]

Their biggest incentive is that they get paid more here. That incentive will not go away.



It would be detected and the border patrol or National Guard would immediately be able to see what has happened. Plus your average illegal immigrant can't even afford wire cutters, not alone dynamite.

They build very long very deep tunnels under the border to smuggle drugs... they can just go under...

 

[hasan]

It's his remark the the fence that bothers me. I want a fence to stop the slave trafficking and to keep criminals out of this country.



It may not take as long, but the diseased and criminals would continue to sneak across our border.

You really think a fence is gonna stop these ppl from coming over? no way. theyd come here one way or the other because they have the incentive to do so.

 

[undergroundrr]

I've always liked Dr. Paul's very simple and sensible stance on immigration. Welfare state = immigration bad. Free market economy = immigration good. Strange to me that this is new to Paul supporters.

 

[Harry96]

I don't see myself fleeing into Mexico for any reason, ever.

Riiight. Because once you give the government the power to do something like build a border fence or wall, it will be constructed exactly as you envision and will only be used for the purposes that meet your approval. Either that or you won't be consulted about any aspect of it, at any time, ever. Now which is it . . .

Let's assume the government should "close" the border. Anyone want to explain to me why I should believe that the same government that can't keep drugs it's trying to ban out of its own prisons, from people who are literally under lock and key 24 hours a day (and has made such a mess of healthcare, education, Iraq, money, etc.) is capable of "sealing" 3,000 miles of border? That would just be more corporate welfare for the people who build and maintain it and more excuses for totalitarianism against U.S. citizens.

When Dr. Paul speaks of immigration being a scapegoat, I think he's referring to the fact that most of the problems attributed, at least partially, to immigration (immigrants getting "free" healthcare, education, food stamps, etc, drugs flowing across the border, etc.) are all caused at their root by government creating socialist programs that shouldn't exist for anyone, trying to ban some drugs, etc, and immigration is used as a scapegoat to distract from government's failures and to keep people from asking more fundamental questions, such as by what right does the government do such things at all.

 

[leonster]

Legal immigration now is a joke. My fiancee and I are currently living in Asia. I'll be moving back next year after marriage, but for my WIFE to move to the US it would require SO MUCH hassle (not to mention a year of living apart--how's THAT for starting a marriage??) along with her having already been treated terribly by the US Embassy--TWICE--when applying for a visa... etc. etc.... that we've decided to just not try.

We've discovered it's MUCH easier for both of us to simply get permanent resident status in Canada, than it is for just her to join me in America. We'll be moving to Canada.

Of course she would NEVER try to immigrate illegally but.... You think the convoluted process might have anything to do with why people don't go through the legal process??

 

[driller80545]

I am from Texas and illegal immigrants don't bother me. Most of them are good, honest, and hard working. Like all classes, some few of them suck. The idea of a fence reminds me of the Berlin Wall.

 

[Harry96]

Another point people need to understand is that human desires are unlimited, so there could never be enough labor available to do all of the work others want done; the market assimilates people quite well. Funny how immigrants overburden welfare rolls, emergency rooms, etc. but private companies never complain about immigrants overburdening THEM by buying "too much" food, etc. The problem is government, not immigration.

 

[hasan]

a person once said that quantity of people is not a problem but the quality may cause

problems if it is poor. if the US was saturated with productive people you would not have

problems but you would have problems if they were not productive.

 

[dircha]

When illegal immigration was brought up? I was very upset with Ron Paul's remarks. Did I hear them right? That he thinks that Americans are upset with illegal immigration because of the economy. And that we wouldn't mind them being here if we were all prospering? I believe I heard that Hillary said that also( on Rush today). That is not at all the reason I am upset with illegal immigration. It makes it look like we are making the illegals a scapegoat.

Congressman Paul does not have a problem with immigrants; quite the opposite; he wants immigrants! He has a problem with wasteful and irresponsible government entitlements and subsidies that make unrestricted immigration unsustainable.

Remember that Congressman Paul is not a protectionist. He believes in principle in the safe, secure, and free flow of lawful immigrants, jobs, goods, and services across national boundaries.

In practice, Congressman Paul knows that because of our system of tremendously wasteful and irresponsible entitlements and subsidies, allowing unrestricted immigration is a road to economic ruin. But the solution over the long term is not to stop immigration, it is to stop government!

This is why Congressman Paul is against a border fence. He does not believe it sends the right message, because again, in principle he believes that free people should be allowed to freely and lawfully cross national boundaries to lawfully pursue theirs and their families' economic fortunes on the free market.

Put simply: Congressman Paul believes that the waste and irresponsibility of government leaves us in a situation where we begin to see the immigrants as the scapegoats. Congressman Paul says government is the scapegoat! Congressman Paul says let's get government out of the way so that we can have more immigration!

I think this is a message of respect for every hard working, law abiding immigrant, on EITHER side of the border!

 

[jumpyg1258]

My take on it is this...

Even if he believes a different reason of why people do not like illegal immigration, hes still for taking the actions that the people desire to stop illegal immigration so it really isn't a big deal.

 

[hasan]

I am from Texas and illegal immigrants don't bother me. Most of them are good, honest, and hard working. Like all classes, some few of them suck. The idea of a fence reminds me of the Berlin Wall.

reminds me more of the wall being built to separate israelis from palestinians. it only adds fuel to fire and a more tangible goal to surmount