Controlled Opposition - A must read for everyone in the liberty movement

[InterestedParticipant]

By your reasoning, Ron Paul must also fit into the Hegelian Dialectics as well.

Give me some real facts.

We've already reached the following major stumbling blocks....

1. First, is the expectation that someone must give facts, or anything else for that matter, to another... that one is entitled to something from another.
   
   
2. Second, that facts are the most important element in this process.

My response is that one must do this work oneself or stay within the confines created for them, and that "facts" are far less relevant than understanding "technique" (or the techniques employed to maintain social control).

Further, facts can be disputed and can create an area for disagreement and time wasting. This leads to dismissal of another, based on trivialities. The focus must be on understanding the techniques employed.

Controlled opposition is just one technique, but to understand how far reaching it it one must be able to recognize the techniques of a controlled opposition operative, whether group or individual actor.

 

[ItsTime]

They think they can control this but once the shit is out of the cow you cant put it back in. All this Glen Beck shit is going to backfire on them when people really want the things he is saying.

 

[FrankRep]

We've already reached the following major stumbling blocks....

1. First, is the expectation that someone must give facts, or anything else for that matter, to another... that one is entitled to something from another.
   
   
2. Second, that facts are the most important element in this process.

My response is that one must do this work oneself or stay within the confines created for them, and that "facts" are far less relevant than understanding "technique" (or the techniques employed to maintain social control).

I must conclude that your attack on the John Birch Society, with no evidence, is unfounded and erroneous.

 

[Anti Federalist]

AND for some things he said about the Confederacy...and vomiting on the souths' Constitution in the Confederate Museum. Tones

Ummmm, wut?

 

[InterestedParticipant]

I must conclude that your attack on the John Birch Society, with no evidence, is unfounded and erroneous.

And so will you remain in your manufactured bubble. Albeit your bubble is different from the mainstream's bubble, but it is manufactured nonetheless and escape is thwarted through your own inaction and fear. Hence, you learn absolutely nothing except what is served to you. God did not make us to be like this.

 

[FrankRep]

And so will you remain in your manufactured bubble. Albeit your bubble is different from the mainstream's bubble, but it is manufactured nonetheless and escape is thwarted through your own inaction and fear. Hence, you learn absolutely nothing except what is served to you. God did not make us to be like this.

Do you consider Christianity, or God in general, as a bubble as well?

 

[InterestedParticipant]

Do you consider Christianity, or God in general, as a bubble as well?

I favor a direct relationship between the individual and God, albeit, religious institutions at the local level can help foster community which can be an extremely healthy force.

Bottom line, if you're in the JBS bubble, there is no way you'll be able to see or expose the bubble. Until you're willing to take steps on your own, you will never know. But if you were a social engineer designing Huxley's Brave New World, where people do not see the controls in-place, then would you not include a JBS-like organization in your framework?

Go read about the Tavistock Method, learn about the Frankfurt Institute and its principal academics, understand how Bernays fits into the design of social structures, read Gen. Michael Aquinos thesis on Mind War. Does JBS talk about any of this? If not, why not? These are all critical elements in the design of our society and how the public thinks.

 

[FrankRep]

Bottom line, if you're in the JBS bubble, there is no way you'll be able to see or expose the bubble. Until you're willing to take steps on your own, you will never know. But if you were a social engineer designing Huxley's Brave New World, where people do not see the controls in-place, then would you not include a JBS-like organization in your framework?

Go read about the Tavistock Method, learn about the Frankfurt Institute and its principal academics, understand how Bernays fits into the design of social structures, read Gen. Michael Aquinos thesis on Mind War. Does JBS talk about any of this? If not, why not? These are all critical elements in the design of our society and how the public thinks.

I agree you shouldn't lock yourself in a bubble of like-minded people and like-minded organizations, but you just seem to be attacking organizations in general. I would call that an over generalization just lumping everyone together.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

I agree you shouldn't lock yourself in a bubble of like-minded people and like-minded organizations, but you just seem to be attacking organizations in general. I would call that an over generalization just lumping everyone together.

I can't discuss with you the problems of a given bridge design until you have had some introduction to physics, material engineering and structural analysis techniques. Like bridge design, we cannot engage in a meaningful discussion about controlled opposition groups until all parties in the discussion have exposed themselves to the techniques in-play and gained some understanding of the system.

Until some willingness to move toward this understanding is displayed and acted upon by the interested parties, we're wasting our time.

If you review the thread I've pointed you toward several areas of research and understanding. If you can start by gaining a real understanding of dialectics, how they are used and why they are important, then I think you will start to see the need for a JBS-type organization.

Ball is in your court on whether you attempt to venture outside the comfort zones.

 

[FrankRep]

If you review the thread I've pointed you toward several areas of research and understanding. If you can start by gaining a real understanding of dialectics, how they are used and why they are important, then I think you will start to see the need for a JBS-type organization.

Great, you just turned a 360.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

Great, you just turned a 360.

Whatever.... I'm done playing games here. You're obviously content where you are and therefore will never grow or see beyond the JBS-framework of containment.

When some JBS member goes "postal" and the JBS comes under establishment attack (hence, public attack), perhaps you'll remember this thread and take it more seriously. For the group's role is only to contain its members, waste their time on ineffective action, and become used as a target group when the time is convenient for the establishment.

Later!


P.S. Have you ever even research who Larry McDonald was associated with, what other groups he was part of and who were on the boards of directors of these other groups. I bet you haven't. Can you say, OSS?

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

P.S. Have you ever even research who Larry McDonald was associated with, what other groups he was part of and who were on the boards of directors of these other groups. I bet you haven't. Can you say, OSS?

Where did Larry McDonald come up? I scanned the thread and couldn't find his name mentioned before.

I do recall that he ran a rather obscure right wing publishing house in the '60's or '70's that went under and as best as I can tell he would have been in diapers or at most 10yo when OSS was around. He did, however do an excellent book about some of the technology that came out of that organization. So praytell, what do you know about him and his associations? Very curious!

-t

 

[FrankRep]

Where did Larry McDonald come up? I scanned the thread and couldn't find his name mentioned before.

I do recall that he ran a rather obscure right wing publishing house in the '60's or '70's that went under and as best as I can tell he would have been in diapers or at most 10yo when OSS was around. He did, however do an excellent book about some of the technology that came out of that organization. So praytell, what do you know about him and his associations? Very curious!

Larry McDonald could be considered the first "Ron Paul" in Congress in the late 70s and was president of the John Birch Society (before he was killed). In fact, Ron Paul first consulted Larry McDonald before running for congress.

 

[Crash Martinez]

Right. So Ron Paul - who likewise doesn't seem to hold any great grudges against JBS, though he probably also wouldn't trust them 100% - is one of these "controlled opposition" sellouts? Or is he ignorant of the "really super hyper-big ass picture" too?

Sorry, I don't buy that.

 

[Deborah K]

From OP article:

In order to do this you may have to get involved in a local non-Birch group to try to influence its members to be more aware than they would be without your advice and education.

I've always believed this is the surest way to bring people around to the truth. If you can't beat em - infiltrate! Works both ways....

I like the JBS. Been meaning to join. Their research into the NAU was very impressive. I also enjoyed the speech Dr. Paul gave, during his campaign, at their 50th anniversary. http://cspanjunkie.org/?p=849

 

[FrankRep]

Ron Paul congratulates the John Birch Society on 50th anniversary.


Congressman Ron Paul has endorsed the John Birch Society in a statement recently received from his office. Dr. Paul stated, "The John Birch Society is a great patriotic organization featuring an educational program solidly based on constitutional principles. I congratulate the Society in this, its 50th year. I wish them continued success and endorse their untiring efforts to foster 'less government, more responsibility, and--with God's help--a better world.'"

John McManus, president of JBS responded, "We graciously accept Dr. Paul's endorsement. He continues to demonstrate what an elected official should be doing ... obeying the Constitution. We thank him for his continuous commitment to protect the freedoms of all Americans. There's a reason why he consistently rates toward the top of the Freedom Index, our congressional scorecard rating legislators' votes published twice a year in the New American Magazine.


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Ron+P...irch+Society+on+50th+anniversary.-a0178674408

 

[LibertyEagle]

Where did Larry McDonald come up? I scanned the thread and couldn't find his name mentioned before.

I do recall that he ran a rather obscure right wing publishing house in the '60's or '70's that went under and as best as I can tell he would have been in diapers or at most 10yo when OSS was around. He did, however do an excellent book about some of the technology that came out of that organization. So praytell, what do you know about him and his associations? Very curious!

-t

It was called Western Publishing. It should also be remembered that Larry McDonald was related to General George Patton. I was a big fan.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

I understand totally about the Hegelian Dialectic...and I agree that any organization that becomes a force is probably infiltrated and compromised. I like the JBS a lot...that's not to say I completely trust them..I don't trust the Libertarian Party totally because I dont' trust the Cato Institute at all. I believe that to be infiltrated and c;ompromised because they did a whack job thing and turned against Ron Paul. That was clearly the Dialectic at work. The C4L..well same thing..I like a lot of what they say;..but I tend to be suspicious of that..I am suspicious of EVERY organization or group think entity these days..but it doens't mean I stay away from them..I just keep my eyes and ears open. Take the good things and throw away what I believe to be junk. No group will be perfect...but we can still do a lot of good. I had somebody tell me that G Edward Griffin was controlled opposition for goodness sake... If we aren't careful we can find ourselves completely paranoid and shut off from everyone and everything...which is definately in effective. Tones

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Oh...lol and part of the dialectic too...(see above) circular logic...tones

 

[InterestedParticipant]

I understand totally about the Hegelian Dialectic...and I agree that any organization that becomes a force is probably infiltrated and compromised. I like the JBS a lot...that's not to say I completely trust them..I don't trust the Libertarian Party totally because I dont' trust the Cato Institute at all. I believe that to be infiltrated and c;ompromised because they did a whack job thing and turned against Ron Paul. That was clearly the Dialectic at work. The C4L..well same thing..I like a lot of what they say;..but I tend to be suspicious of that..I am suspicious of EVERY organization or group think entity these days..but it doens't mean I stay away from them..I just keep my eyes and ears open. Take the good things and throw away what I believe to be junk. No group will be perfect...but we can still do a lot of good. I had somebody tell me that G Edward Griffin was controlled opposition for goodness sake... If we aren't careful we can find ourselves completely paranoid and shut off from everyone and everything...which is definately in effective. Tones

But "G" is!

It's a network, a system, an array of actors and movements and groups.... all to contain your "thinking." And it's working quite well.

Cognitive Dissonance is your biggest enemy right now.