Confirmed: US citizen among those killed in Gaza flotilla raid

[John Taylor]

well the world disagrees and another ship is headed there loaded to the gills with camera equipment .

Israel isn't our boss, they are yours it seems

The "world" disagrees? I'm part of this "world", and I don't... proved you wrong. Logic isn't a strong point for you is it?

Israel and Egypt are at war with Gaza, and have it under a naval blockade. If a ship wants to bring humanitarian supplies, they just have to dock in Israel or Egypt and have the cargo inspected.

I favor letting Israel and Egypt settle their own issues, without U.S. intervention. You wish the U.S. to destroy Israel. That's where we part: you wish for the U.S. government to intervene to kill 6 million people, I do not.

 

[lester1/2jr]

Who said anything about intentionally? Do you know that the bulldozer driver was trying to bulldoze that girl? I haven't seen any evidence of his mens rea regarding that... the woman knew the risk she was taking, and she could have moved. The bulldozer driver likely assumed that the woman was a reasonable person who would not want to be run over... I don't see any intention there... but feel free to demonstrate it to me.

you're saying the bulldozer driver isn't liable for rachael corries death because she should have known he was a killer by nature who WOULD run her over. therefore it was her job to get out of the way.

unbelievable.

and I don't... proved you wrong.

when did that happen?

You wish the U.S. to destroy Israel. That's where we part: you wish for the U.S. government to intervene to kill 6 million people, I do not.

no i don't. It's outside of our interests to be involved, but if I had my DRUTHERS the israelis would go back to israel and the US where they came from.

the point was if there was no israel we would have a hard time intervening for them. you can't interevne for someone that doesn't exist.

I'm part of this "world",

well you can go out into the ocean with a tug boat and fight the humanitarian ships and try to stop them from delivering supplies

 

[John Taylor]

you're saying the bulldozer driver isn't liable for rachael corries death because she should have known he was a killer by nature who WOULD run her over. therefore it was her job to get out of the way.

unbelievable.

I never said that. Nice strawman though!! You should make scarecrows for a living!

I simply said, that there is no evidence the bulldozer driver deliberately ran over the woman. We DO KNOW that the woman deliberately placed herself in front of it... so, it's a question of intent, and the burden of proof lies with the people asserting that the operator was acting intentionally to kill that woman. Sorry, your case just isn't there.

the point was if there was no israel we would have a hard time intervening for them. you can't interevne for someone that doesn't exist.

I agree, let's nuke the rest of the world, one little preemptive war to prevent all other wars and interventions.

 

[John Taylor]

well you can go out into the ocean with a tug boat and fight the humanitarian ships and try to stop them from delivering supplies

RED HERRING.

Israel AND Egypt offered repeatedly to send ALL of the humanitarian supplies to Gaza, but insisted that because of the state of war between Gaza and Egypt/Israel, the ships would need to be inspected to ensure that no arms or munitions were aboard.

This isn't about delivering supplies, it's about an attempt to break a blockade.

 

[lester1/2jr]

I simply said, that there is no evidence the bulldozer driver deliberately ran over the woman.

yes there is. the guy saw her. you think he was just minding his business bulldozing around and he looked down and was like "oh some person I've never seen before was standing there"? she was protesting and he was like "protest this"

This isn't about delivering supplies, it's about an attempt to break a blockade.

to deliver supplies which is legal under a blockade. what probabaly alot of people aren't going to recognize israel soon enough so their blockade will not be recognized either

they are going to sink this ship from ireland and people will not be confused by any people with metal pipes and so forth.

 

[John Taylor]

yes there is. the guy saw her. you think he was just minding his business blldozing around and he looked down and was like "oh some person I've never seen before was standing there"? she was protesting and he was like "protest this"

That's interesting. You know his motivations...

And how, oh almighty one, do you know the inner workings of that man's heart?

A reasonable person, and that IS THE LEGAL STANDARD, the REASONABLE PERSON STANDARD, would have gotten out of the way of a bulldozer. If someone gets in the way of a train or an 18 wheeler and gets crushed, we don't normally hold the operator of the large transport machine liable for MURDER, as you suggest we should. Sorry.

 

[John Taylor]

to deliver supplies which is legal under a blockade. what probabaly alot of people aren't going to recognize israel soon enough so their blockade will not be recognized either

they are going to sink this ship from ireland and people will not be confused by any people with metal pipes and so forth.

The ship from Ireland turned around.

Egypt and Israel will allow all humanitarian aid to get through to Gaza, but will inspect it all first.

Delivering military supplies is not legal under a blockade. Sorry.

 

[catdd]

They didn't turn around they decided to go to Turkey where they will be escorted to Gaza.

 

[John Taylor]

They didn't turn around they decided to go to Turkey where they will be escorted to Gaza.

If Turkey wants to start a war with Egypt and Israel, that is their loss. The last thing we should be advocating is an expansion of the war currently underway.

 

[Chieppa1]

now with streaming video on board. The Israeli government is says they will pick up Turkish terrorists. Sorry if I don't believe government propaganda.

 

[John Taylor]

now with streaming video on board. The Israeli government is says they will pick up Turkish terrorists. Sorry if I don't believe government propaganda.

If a ship attempts to break a blockade, under maritime law it will bear the consequences, and may be boarded or sunk.

 

[Chieppa1]

If Turkey wants to start a war with Egypt and Israel, that is their loss.

Egypt opened their boarder with Palestine.

 

[lester1/2jr]

That's interesting. You know his motivations...

And how, oh almighty one, do you know the inner workings of that man's heart?

A reasonable person, and that IS THE LEGAL STANDARD, the REASONABLE PERSON STANDARD, would have gotten out of the way of a bulldozer.

you don't have to know the inner workings of his heart. he saw her and he proceeded to where she was and killed her. he's guilty of a very ghastly murder.

If I have a tree in my yard and a neighbor says its on his yard, I cannot apply a saw to his stomach and cut him in half to get to the tree. this is extremely obvious to most people

 

[catdd]

John Taylor says there is no such place as Palestine.

 

[lester1/2jr]

If a ship attempts to break a blockade, under maritime law it will bear the consequences, and may be boarded or sunk.

lol if israel believes that they are dead meat. this will get much much bigger than the flotilla incident

 

[John Taylor]

Egypt opened their boarder with Palestine.

I don't know of any Palestine, I do know of a Gaza, but not a Palestine. What is that other than a name the Romans gave the area after they ravaged it??

 

[John Taylor]

John Taylor says there is no such place as Palestine.

Oh, it's a place? Ok, that's fine. It certainly isn't a country, but a region, sure, that's what the Romans called the area, and if you want to go only halfway through the history of the region for a name, be my guest.

 

[John Taylor]

you don't have to know the inner workings of his heart. he saw her and he proceeded to where she was and killed her. he's guilty of a very ghastly murder.

If I have a tree in my yard and a neighbor says its on his yard, I cannot apply a saw to his stomach and cut him in half to get to the tree. this is extremely obvious to most people

That's not what happened. This is akin to someone stepping out in front of a bus, and the bus not slowing down because the driver reasonably thinks the person will continue walking out of the way... no murder, just an unfortunate accident.

 

[John Taylor]

lol if israel believes that they are dead meat. this will get much much bigger than the flotilla incident

That's what the law has said for 500 years pal. Take it up with the law of the sea. In any event, Egypt AND Israel are enforcing this blockade, because of the existing state of war between those two countries and Gaza.

 

[lester1/2jr]

like I say, they can be my guest as it will only serve the interests of their opponents