"Attractive hazard" [Orlando Gator attack]

we had a baby gator when i was a kid. he was about 6" long when we got him.... kept him in a kiddies plastic swimming pool in the backyard. When he got to about 18-20" we decided having a gator wasn't all that much fun, and let him go in the creek down the street.

gators gotta eat too. Don't hate on 'em.


They've pulled out and killed at at least five, which I also find ridiculous. They say they're looking for "evidence" of the offender. Like one alligator is the danger and others would not be. Humans engage in some of the dumbest shit meant to make everyone feel better.
 
Gators do not tend to hang out on land. There were no swimming signs at the resort.

The libertarian solution means the gator eats. Sorry....

the baby was wading, not swimming, and the no swimming sign was not a warning about gators.

the libertarian solution?...yep, the true libertarian solution would be to boycott disney.
 
Gators do not tend to hang out on land. There were no swimming signs at the resort.

The libertarian solution means the gator eats. Sorry....

Being cold blooded, they sun themselves on land and they also lunge from the water to catch prey.

I'm not saying there should be any expectation of Disney property not having alligators. I'm saying there is a reasonable expectation to let the guests know that that there are alligators and not to put artificial beaches with chairs and parties where alligators would normally be feeding.
 
They've pulled out and killed at at least five, which I also find ridiculous. They say they're looking for "evidence" of the offender. Like one alligator is the danger and others would not be. Humans engage in some of the dumbest $#@! meant to make everyone feel better.

My previous posts regarding other hazards (without warning signs up) relate to this. You're overreacting. Insanely. It's tragic this child is dead, and it's no one's fault. You're screeching that Disney (because it has money) should have posted "Warning: Alligators" signs around the lake that's used for fireworks and boat shows. This family is from Nebraska, and many have pointed out they have no idea about alligators. Why is it your assertion that kind of sign would have stopped them from wading in the water? If they know enough about alligators to realize there's a danger, then they don't need the sign.

They have found five alligators in a really huge area, during mating/nesting season. That's actually surprisingly few, which speaks to their wildlife spotters doing a pretty good job overall. They're looking for evidence that one of the ones killed is the offender because if none of them is, then there is 100% for certain another alligator out there, and they need to keep looking. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about that.

There are a million and one acts of God and forces of nature that can kill you at any given place. There's no room for signage about all of them, many of which are still way more dangerous than alligators.

Mind you, most people agree with you, which is why there are signs and warnings on things that simply don't make sense. There can't just be a rip current sign; there has to be an entire essay on what riptides are and how to survive them. You even have warnings based on urban legends and misunderstandings "just in case." Disney will very likely get sued, and they'll put up an eight-foot barrier in that area, and also anywhere along the shore (even where other shows take place). Then they will have to put "do not climb this barrier" signs everywhere, in multiple languages.

The heart of the matter for you is how much money they have. The person whose home Suz was staying at did not have a sign, yet there were dangerous gators in the area. You don't seem as angry about that.

Gators used to get in the pools in our neighborhood all the time. Should every homeowner have been required to post a caution sign to avoid liability?

I lived in FLorida, and we swam in freshwater. This is nobody's fault - it was a tragedy.

This is why I mentioned storms and snow. I might also easily have mentioned lightning, which kills/injures A LOT of people in Florida each year, and is way more prone to strike during certain activities. They are natural occurrences that the people who live around them get used to, just like gators are here. Someone coming to your area is not used to those occurrences, and could get injured/killed. It doesn't mean it's their fault for not knowing, but it's certainly not your fault for not thinking to educate them on something that is super common in the area.
 
the baby was wading, not swimming, and the no swimming sign was not a warning about gators.

the libertarian solution?...yep, the true libertarian solution would be to boycott disney.

What did Disney do wrong? The alligators are protected by the state. They are trying to please the government, their guests and the tree huggers. If it were up to the managers, they'd probably just trap and kill them.
 
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This is a Google maps image of where I used to live (the apartment complex has been torn down recently.) The red “X” marks where I parked my car one Sunday morning in the early 1980s….got out to see an alligator had crawled out of that canal and was right in front of my car in that grassy patch between the parking lot and the canal just to the left of my car (not far from the driver side door — eek!!) Thank God he was dead….but that was a very scary moment. We have canals like that all over the place here. (Just think: y'all might not be putting up with me here today if that gator had been alive.... LOL!!)

Alligators tend to be exceptionally lazy when they're out of the water; unless you saw a big chunk missing from him he might have been sunning himself. They sun themselves on the highways sometimes, at which point someone inevitably runs over them, and half the time gets out to go "check on the alligator." That's not a smart move, either.
 
What did Disney do wrong? The alligators are protected by the state. They are trying to please the government, their guests and the tree huggers. If it were up to the managers, they'd probably just trap and kill them.

It's been some time since they were protected to that extent. They DID trap and even kill some alligators regularly. It's the reason there were only five or six caught in that huge body of water.

The irony is that they were probably around this same size/age. If they'd let one or two really large ones into the lagoon and keep maintain an offshore fence so that they could not get up onto populated beach areas, coupled with a rock wall, they could put in a few artificial islands for them to sun themselves and have protection against most of the nasty younger gators.

Of course, that would mean children possibly seeing one gator eat another gator (happened here locally and the one eating the smaller gator was in deep trouble), and it would also mean the view of fireworks/shows on the lake would be partially obscured, which most folks can't abide.
 
Alligators tend to be exceptionally lazy when they're out of the water; unless you saw a big chunk missing from him he might have been sunning himself. They sun themselves on the highways sometimes, at which point someone inevitably runs over them, and half the time gets out to go "check on the alligator." That's not a smart move, either.
I didn't go near him at all!! Someone else reported to me that he was dead.
 
The government should get involved. Change the state name and slogan from "Florida, The Sunshine State" to "Caution, we've got fucking gators here you mid-western idjuts." That way everyone in Florida Caution can claim indemnity.
 
Since we're on the subject of large reptiles, I have to share this astounding video. It involves a crocodile but that's close enough.

 
They've pulled out and killed at at least five, which I also find ridiculous. They say they're looking for "evidence" of the offender. Like one alligator is the danger and others would not be. Humans engage in some of the dumbest shit meant to make everyone feel better.

"Looking for evidence" is a polite way of saying they are trying to recover the body...
 
"Looking for evidence" is a polite way of saying they are trying to recover the body...

They recovered the body yesterday --- whole. That's mildly interesting in that the area where they found him wasn't near a mud bank; it essentially points to the gator losing its grip and losing interest.
 
Peeping Suzanimal??? It's ok, voyeurism is a pretty common fetish...

:D :o



As to signs, a resort that caters to people from all over the world, including Nebraska, a Gator warning sign seems reasonable.... I would even venture to guess the No swimming sign was a polite way of warning guests to not go in the water because a "Hey, gators will eat you" sign would scare away the business :/

They are absolutely culpable.

For around 800.00 per night, I'll take the GATOR!!! warning. Yeah, I guess we're all a bunch of dumb asses because we have better things to worry about than gators but whatever..

I GET IT. People understand gators are in FLORIDA but the average person does not understand they are EVERYWHERE. Especially at a resort. If I were Disney Grand Floridan, I would leave reminders at the beach (WHERE I PUT BEACH CHAIRS AND SHOT OFF FIREWORKS) that there are gators in the water.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/resorts/grand-floridian-resort-and-spa/rates-rooms/
 
What about mosquitoes? Does every resort in tropical areas need a dengue and zika warning sign to avert liability?
 
It's nice that they recovered the body whole. Some solace in the smallest of way in the face of unimaginable grief...
 
Gators drown their prey, stash them and let them rot a bit before eating.

They also tend to stay away from humans for the most part, but there are reports of the tourists feeding them from balconies.
 
attractive hazard doctrine only applies to artificial hazards; construction sites, equipment, faulty structures, etc.; alligators are natural hazards... so I don't see liability.

If you're attacked by a wild animal the property owner isn't responsible.
If you're attacked by a domesticated or caged animal the property owner is responsible.


ferae naturae; animals are wild natured

The baby was killed in a man made lagoon.

Grand Floridian custodian Mike Hamilton was so concerned by alligators occasionally swimming up close to the shore of Walt Disney World's Seven Seas Lagoon, he said he warned managers they should fence off the area.

"There are signs that say, 'No swimming,' but no signs that say gators and everything else in this lake," he said.

Alligators have been commonly sighted at Walt Disney World, prompting both fascination and fear in surprised tourists. On Tuesday night, one of the reptiles grabbed a 2-year-old Nebraska boy playing at the water's edge at the Grand Floridian Resort & Spa. The boy's body was found Wednesday, said Orange County Sheriff Jerry Demings, adding he was sure the cause of death was drowning.

Other tourists reported alarming experiences with Disney alligators, especially at the Seven Seas Lagoon, a man-made lake between Disney's luxury hotels and the Magic Kingdom.

...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-alligator-history-20160615-story.html
 
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