"Attractive hazard" [Orlando Gator attack]

[JK/SEA]

hmmm...well, i think there is a resonable expectaion of safety from alligators at a fucking disney resort designed for family's and children...question is how big that check is going to be.

 

[BV2]

Depth charge the whole lagoon... weekly. Meh, might not call it disneys fault but also doubt they really care. Does seem a bit reckless with the chairs and all. A sign probably would be a good idea, just uncommon senses sake.

 

[JK/SEA]

Depth charge the whole lagoon... weekly. Meh, might not call it disneys fault but also doubt they really care. Does seem a bit reckless with the chairs and all. A sign probably would be a good idea, just uncommon senses sake.

disney's going to care very very soon.

 

[Jamesiv1]

We had a baby gator when i was a kid. he was about 6" long when we got him.... kept him in a kiddies plastic swimming pool in the backyard. When he got to about 18-20" we decided having a gator wasn't all that much fun, and let him go in the creek down the street.

Gators gotta eat too. Don't hate on 'em.

 

[presence]

attractive hazard doctrine only applies to artificial hazards; construction sites, equipment, faulty structures, etc.; alligators are natural hazards... so I don't see liability.

If you're attacked by a wild animal the property owner isn't responsible.
If you're attacked by a domesticated or caged animal the property owner is responsible.


ferae naturae; animals are wild natured

 

[JK/SEA]

attractive hazard doctrine only applies to artificial hazards; construction sites, equipment, faulty structures, etc.; alligators are natural hazards... so I don't see liability

i do. Disney Land, the happiest place on earth. Pay your ticket and have fun.

oh gee, we didn't know alligators came to disneyland. Sorry your baby got killed....oh well.

seems like a set-up. Build a family resort and let man eating alligators roam freely...makes perfect sense.

 

[presence]

Build a family resort and let man eating alligators roam freely...makes perfect sense.

Build a beach house.... rent it out to family on vacation and their kid gets eaten by a shark.

Are you liable? Absurd. Wild is wild.

with respect to the plaintiffs’ nuisance claim, the trial court found that the defendants

could not be held liable in nuisance “for wild animals that exist on their land as a natural occurrence.”

We agree. The “established common law rule [is] that a

land owner is under no affirmative duty to remedy conditions of purely natural origin upon his land even though they are dangerous or inconvenient to his neighbors.”

Lichtman v. Nadler, 426 N.Y.S.2d 628, 629 (App. Div. 1980), appeal dismissed, 53 N.Y.2d 704 (N.Y. 1981). Stated alternatively: “In order to create a legal nuisance,

the act of man must have contributed to its existence.”

Merriam v. McConnell, 175 N.E.2d 293, 296 (Ill. App. Ct. 1961).

http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2008/belhu048.pdf

no act of man contributed to alligators in Florida ponds

 

[Jamesiv1]

Disneyworld might be a secret breeding ground for reptilian shapeshifters that look like gators.

Build gigantic theme park > attract tons of families > create distractions that make nice photos > bite-size kids wander unattended > reptilian aliens take over the Earth.

genius.

 

[JK/SEA]

Build a beach house.... rent it out to family on vacation and their kid gets eaten by a shark.

Are you liable? Absurd.

sharks and gators are not the same thing. They have very different strategies on how they get their prey. Plus most people are very aware of sharks thanks to 'Jaws'...

there are people with helicopters watching for sharks, there are people on the beach with binoculars watching for sharks....was there a gator watch crew at the Happy Kingdom?.....a large resort with a gator infestation designed for families is not the same as a beach cabin with 'maybe' sharks nearby...

 

[susano]

Yes, there are terrible awful alligators all over the place. They kill very few people. Half the things I posted about are far more dangerous than alligators, though admittedly the snake issue is going to be more of a daylight hours problem.

I hate to tell you this, but there are sharks in the ocean, too, though there are more often problems with jellyfish or pollution or rip currents.

There are mosquitoes and ticks that carry diseases --- a way more common problem than being carried off by an alligator.

If that murky, grass-filled water looks appealing to you, even after the hotels mention the lake is for fireworks and boat shows, then nothing I say is going to make you think otherwise. How many people died in Michigan due to snow-related issues last year? Would someone from Florida know about how dangerous the roads are there? At what point do you say "but it's OBVIOUS it's going to snow..."? If I visit them in Nebraska, and the sky gets dark, and I start hearing sirens, whose fault is it when I don't realize there's a tornado headed straight for me? The sirens should be someone's voice yelling "HEY! TORNADO COMING! GET INDOORS/UNDERGROUND AND STAY AWAY FROM WINDOWS!" because the siren is not specific enough, right?

As for the videos, yeah, big gators are wandering around throughout May and June in particular. The smaller ones (like the one that killed this child) are more of a problem. The big ones are established and usually have a comfortable territory with females available. The smaller ones are still fighting to establish theirs. It's usually these smaller ones that harm people or wind up in swimming pools.

Here's another video for you:



That's what that "beautiful" water looks like up close. This family did not mention this to Disney, btw.

Dozens people die from digging holes at the beach (I've yet to see a warning about that, either).

WTF is that matter with you? All I'm saying is this is a private resort that managed to put "no swimming" signs around but couldn't be bothered to put up a few of these:

This isn't a snow storm or a tornado (and there was no "siren", like you've argued), it's a man made beach with chaises intended to draw families to the lagoon. Turns out some other guest warned another family only about an hour before and they took their kids and left. Amazing what a little information will do. It was not obvious to some people and common sense and consideration for the safety of visitors who know nothing about alligators would be to give them a heads up. You act like there's something wrong with a simple warning and that everyone who is ignorant/unaware is a retard. And, again, you extrapolate to things like the weather which has nothing to do with this.

 

[euphemia]

Probably no life guard posted. Use the swimming pool.

I can't tell you the stupid things I have dealt with. There was a couple with two young children. Not a lick of sense in any of them. They wanted to come to us and yelled at us where they should go. We told them to go back to the elevator and go to another elevator. Of course, they went right up the stairs and their elementary age kid bumped his head on the stair railing. "He bumped his head! Why didn't you tell us he could bump his head?" Why indeed.

Most of the people we deal with are very nice and they are interested in what we do. Then there are those people ^^^

 

[phill4paul]

Gators used to get in the pools in our neighborhood all the time. Should every homeowner have been required to post a caution sign to avoid liability?

 

[sam1952]

So sad. I agree. Disney should do more to warn guests about the gators. I used to go a lot when my kids were little and it never occurred to me to look out for gators around a theme park. I had a too close for comfort encounter with them a few times visiting my brother. He lives on a canal and I would take my coffee outside in the wee hours of the morning so I didn't wake anyone else up and decided to take a walk around the yard when I heard something going into the water about 10 ft from me - it was a frickin' gator. I didn't even notice it. I was too busy watching the neighbors across the canal getting ready for work. It was still a bit dark outside and I could see right into their house.

Peeping Suzanimal??? It's ok, voyeurism is a pretty common fetish...


As to signs, a resort that caters to people from all over the world, including Nebraska, a Gator warning sign seems reasonable.... I would even venture to guess the No swimming sign was a polite way of warning guests to not go in the water because a "Hey, gators will eat you" sign would scare away the business :/

They are absolutely culpable.

 

[susano]

So you're blaming the parents, then? Because "no swimming" obviously means OMG ALLIGATORS!

And the child wasn't $#@!ing swimming.

Oh, and get this: Alligators can actually WALK on dry land, no swimming required! I know, crazy!

Thank you (for all of your reasonable posts). There's a kneejerk reaction that sometimes goes on with liberty/personal responsibility peeps that gets taken to the absurd. There's a presumption that any and all warnings about anything are hand holding nanny state nonsense and/or due to our ridiculously litigious culture and a lot of people who are irresponsible, refusing to take responsibility for their own stupidity. This is not one of those cases.

I'm amazed that Disney, a multi billion dollar operation, that has to have teams of legal people, would put beaches and have parties next to alligator swamps, knowing that guests come from all over and might not know the risk. From what I've read, Disney is always removing alligators and a manager even suggested fencing because of the danger. Alligator attacks on humans are rare but luring people to where they breed and feed is just stupid. Gators, coming up out of the water, snatch critters from the shore all the time and and they can move fast. I was reading another thread, last night, at Democratic Underground, where a lot of people who live in gator country were posting. Several said that they never get near water at night which is mainly when gators feed.

Now, for further stupidity. I heard they're doing an autopsy on the little boy. I'm assuming that's some state regulation in the case of accidental death. What the hell is that supposed to prove and why add that unnecessary element? Puncture wounds or drowning would be the answer, obviously.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I'm not one who advocates allowing a 2-year old to run wild, but....you could keep your eye glued to your 2-year old and it wouldn't help in this case. If you were holding his hand constantly it wouldn't have helped.

 

[susano]

attractive hazard doctrine only applies to artificial hazards; construction sites, equipment, faulty structures, etc.; alligators are natural hazards... so I don't see liability.

If you're attacked by a wild animal the property owner isn't responsible.
If you're attacked by a domesticated or caged animal the property owner is responsible.


ferae naturae; animals are wild natured

The attractive hazard is their artificial beach.

 

[angelatc]

I lived in FLorida, and we swam in freshwater. This is nobody's fault - it was a tragedy.

 

[angelatc]

The attractive hazard is their artificial beach.

Gators do not tend to hang out on land. There were no swimming signs at the resort.

The libertarian solution means the gator eats. Sorry....

 

[susano]

I'm not one who advocates allowing a 2-year old to run wild, but....you could keep your eye glued to your 2-year old and it wouldn't help in this case. If you were holding his hand constantly it wouldn't have helped.

On that other thread that I read, people in gator country said there had been cases of gators coming out of the water and snatching dogs on leashes. Hence, that's why they said they stay away from the water. That artificial, well groomed Disney beach goes right up to the water's edge - striking distance for an alligator getting his dinner.

 

[JK/SEA]

I lived in FLorida, and we swam in freshwater. This is nobody's fault - it was a tragedy.

this family was from Nebraska. No gators there.