kevin...I have sinned and Jesus has forgiven me. But what if I willfully keep sinning? I am talking about gross sins. Does Jesus forgive me no matter what I do? I would never make mockery of G-d's forgiveness, but this is something that has always puzzled me.
A critical study of the Bible
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kevin...I have sinned and Jesus has forgiven me. But what if I willfully keep sinning? I am talking about gross sins. Does Jesus forgive me no matter what I do? I would never make mockery of G-d's forgiveness, but this is something that has always puzzled me.
ARealConservative
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what does willful sinning even mean? given free will, isn't all sin willful?
What I'm getting at is that there is inherit weakness, and then there is willful sinning. I can sin because I am weak, or I can sin because I enjoy it. So no, not all sin is willful. Sometimes sin is a mistake.
ARealConservative
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I still don't see the distinction. perhaps an example differentiating the two?
My conscience tells me what is right or wrong. Should I listen to my conscience? If I don't, am I sinning?
ARealConservative
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I thought scripture tell us what is right and wrong.
TER
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Yes, you should definitely listen to your conscience. It is the voice of God within you. And you should strengthen it too.
ARealConservative
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couldn't it be the opposite end of the spectrum and the voice of evil?
TER
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If it goes against the teachings of Christ, then most certainly.
TER
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It requires vigilance and spiritual awakeness, testing the spirits and discerning the Grace of God.
Prayer strengthens the conscience, the conscience strengthens the resolve, and the resolve in turn enlivens the faith. The spark of the divine becomes active within us and the Holy Spirit reveals the mysteries of God. Then, we truly live lives in Christ and become co-heirs of the Kingdom of God.
Prayer strengthens the conscience, the conscience strengthens the resolve, and the resolve in turn enlivens the faith. The spark of the divine becomes active within us and the Holy Spirit reveals the mysteries of God. Then, we truly live lives in Christ and become co-heirs of the Kingdom of God.
ARealConservative
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this is getting a little too circular for me. I'm paraphrasing a bit, but I think I kept the exchange in tact.
Yum ~ My conscience tells me what is right or wrong
you ~ Yes, you should definitely listen to your conscience
me ~ I thought scripture tell us what is right or wrong
you ~ If your conscious goes against scripture then don't listen to your conscious
TER
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Allow me to try to explain it better.
The conscience is the voice of God within us. It is the voice of God which cries out from outside of creation and into our minds and within our hearts in answer to our prayers. This is a gift from God and He gives it freely.
jmdrake
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Ok. There are really several questions here. I'll give you the short answer and then an explanation.
Yes we are no longer under the law, but the law (at least the 10 commandments) is still binding. There are some parts of the Mosaic law that are not binding. And there is a way to tell the difference.
How do I know the 10 commandments are still binding?
Look at what Jesus said about the 7th commandment in Matthew 5:28,29
28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
So what does this tell us? That even mental adultery is wrong and the sin of mental adultery can send you to hell. Sobering thought. But here's the good news.
1 John 2:1
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
And how does that work?
1 John 1:9 (New International Version, ©2010)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Now how many times will Jesus forgive us for the same sin? Well He told us to pray that God forgive us in the same manner that we forgive those who sin against us. (See Matthew 6:12)
How often are we supposed to forgive others?
Matthew 18:21-23
21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
Now I don't think Jesus picked that number as an arbitrary cut off. I think He realized that most people could keep up with 7 wrongs done against them, but they would lose count somewhere before reaching 77.
Now you asked what would happen if you willfully sinned? Well let's look at Hebrews 10:26-31.
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Oh boy! Another sobering passage! I know that there have been times in my Christian journey where I have purposefully, deliberately sinned because I wanted to. It wasn't a mere slip up. Does that mean that I can hang up all up? And how do we square this passage in Romans that nothing can separate us from the love of God? (Romans 8:35-39) Further the writer of Romans seems to condemn himself in Romans 7:19-25.
Well the key words in Hebrews 10:26 are "deliberately keep on sinning". In other words, if you give up on living right and just say "It doesn't matter because God will forgive me anyway", that's when you are in the most danger.
So what does it mean to not be under the law?
Well it means two things. One is that there are parts of the law that are no longer binding at all. Remember the law of Moses included the ceremonial law, health laws, the 10 commandment law etc. Many of the feast days (sabbaths - see Lev. 23:26-32) pointed to the coming of the messiah. So did the entire ceremonial sacrificial system. Since Jesus came there was no longer any need for a passover or a day of atonement or to kill a lamb, because the passover lamb pointed to Jesus. Instead Jesus gave us the Lord's supper in remembrance of him. (Luke 22:19) So none of the ceremonial "the messiah is coming law" is binding on the Christian.
But further the human administered death penalty for sin is longer binding. (Sorry Theorcrat, but stoning gays doesn't fit under the new covenant). How can I be certain of this?
Again Hebrews 10:28-31.
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Under the old covenant (the law of Moses) someone could be put to death for adultery or picking up sticks on Sabbath or a host of other things based on the "testimony of two or three witnesses." But now God says "It is mine to avenge; I will repay". Remember the law of Moses is called the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:2). Further, remember that Jesus refused to stone the woman caught in adultery. He told her "neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more." (John 8:11). There is no record in the New Testament of Jesus or any of his followers ever meeting out any physical punishment for sin. Now maybe you're thinking "But what about Ananias and Sapphira?" (Acts 5) But according to the Bible nobody laid a hand on them and they just died on their own. More evidence that it is God and God alone who is supposed to punish sin. Sure there can be church discipline (removing people from church position for example), but when the church began persecuting "heretics" or Jews or whatever, it had stepped outside the new covenant.
So how do we know which laws still matter?
God gave commands to us to make our lives better, not to take away our fun. Jesus said "I am come that you may have life and have it more abundantly". (John 10:10) Does carrying around uncontrolled hate or lust in your heart make your life more abundant? Are you really happier if you are dishonest or if you steal or if you are envious of others? Does worshiping things (materialism) lead to happiness? Even the Sabbath was supposed to be for our happiness. Jesus said it was made for man and not man for it. (Mark 2:27) That command meant that even the lowliest indentured servant would get at least one day a week off. We take having two days a week off now for granted, but that was not always the case.
How about the health laws? Some Christians are ecstatic to be "free" from them. Ok, but then don't expect to fall under God's promise for blessing for health. (See Exodus 15:26). Nowadays most Christian churches preach tithe even though the only places its found in the New Testament is where Jesus said it wasn't as important as "weightier matters of the law". (Matt 23:23; Luke 11:42) So is not tithing a sin? Who am I to judge? But if you want to claim the promise of God in Malachi 3:10 then tithing is a wise thing to do. There are people who don't believe the Bible who tithe anyway. In order to set aside 10 percent of your income for charity, you have to first make a budget. The act of budgeting itself increases wealth regardless of whether there is a supernatural blessing involved. Plus having a generous heart is good in a lot of ways. Under the new covenant many Christians gave more than what was required under the tithing system. (Acts 2:45)
Still there are some other things from the law of Moses that no longer make sense. You don't have to have an outhouse just because of Deuteronomy 23:12-14. But, if you're backpacking, having a small shovel and leaving the camp to use the bathroom is still a good idea. So I suppose it depends on the context.
Conclusion
That's a long answer to a short question. So here's the Cliff's Notes summary. Jesus reaffirmed the 10 commandments at least in part. There are parts of the law of Moses that no longer apply at all. There is no longer any "condemnation" (human instituted punishment) under the law. But the 10 commandments and other parts of the law of Moses were really just there to help you lead a healthier, more prosperous and happier life. So this is where your conscious fits it. Understand the simple stuff. The look at the entire Bible as a source of God's blessing. And be motivated by love in your heart for God and your fellow man. Sure you'll make mistakes. But Jesus is ready to advocate for you with the Father and the Holy Spirit is there to help you get back on your feet. God is on your side. Never forget that.
jmdrake
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John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
So how does this work? Have you ever had a really difficult class in school? You can learn the material either through reading the book or listening to the lecture or both. Your doing the best if you do both. Sometimes if the material is really difficult you can go to the teacher's office hours or get a tutor. But sometimes the teacher or tutor might tell you the wrong thing. How can you know that for sure? Check what was said against the book. Personal story. I was taking an undergraduate computer class from a professor who was in graduate school himself. He was smart, and a nice person. But occasionally he would get it wrong. I knew this because I had read ahead in the book. So I would, as humbly as possible, point this out. And lest it sound like I'm bragging, I've taught courses before and I'm sure I've at times made a mistake. (It's been a while). Now the Holy Spirit never makes mistakes, but you could mistake your own feelings or some other prompting for His voice. Well...check what you think is the Spirit's leading against the book, and check your understanding of the book against the promptings of the spirit. Circular? Maybe. But the system of redundant checks has many uses. (Double entry book keeping. Cyclic redundancy checks for computer communications, etc).
RPLiberty1
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I have found e-sword to be very helpful in Bible research. You can download for free over 25 versions of the Bible plus many versions in other language including Greek, Hebrew and Latin(other versions marked with $ are available for a small donation- scroll down to the downarrow marked versions). This program gives you the capability of comparing verses from several or all versions you have downloaded at the same time. There are also more than 12 free Commentaries, such as Gill, Clark and Darby, that link to the verses as you read them. There are over 12 dictionaries including Webster(1828 version), Strongs and Thayer's Greek definitions. You can also created your own notes separately or linked to the book and verse you are studying using journal notes, topic notes and study notes. I think it is the most downloaded Bible study program in the world. Check it out.
The Bible is free from error in that God has given us his revelation through the Scriptures in matters of faith and morals.
The Bible was written by human authors, who had human faults, the Holy Spirit inspired the authors, but did not prevent them from making mistakes such as dates, times, locations, etc. The New Testament especially was written and edited by the Christian communities where the particular book took place. This is especially evident in the Gospels (see Mark longer and shorter ending). This is okay because the Bible is a product of the Church entrusted by Christ to guide the flock until the end of time. The compilation and preservation of revelation through Scripture is one of those things the Church has done throughout history.
The Bible was written by human authors, who had human faults, the Holy Spirit inspired the authors, but did not prevent them from making mistakes such as dates, times, locations, etc. The New Testament especially was written and edited by the Christian communities where the particular book took place. This is especially evident in the Gospels (see Mark longer and shorter ending). This is okay because the Bible is a product of the Church entrusted by Christ to guide the flock until the end of time. The compilation and preservation of revelation through Scripture is one of those things the Church has done throughout history.
Legend1104
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I hate jumping in so late, but I tend to disagree with you. Dr. 3D already mentioned this once but the 10 comandments are included in the old covenant that was done away with. Look at 2 Corinthians 3:7. Galatians 5:1-6 tells us about the fact that if we try to keep the law we are forced to keep the whole law.
The law was given to point us to Christ. They could not take away sins, only cover them until Christ could come to do away with sins. Chirst did not destroy the law, he fulfilled it. When he died, the purpose of the law was complete. Therefore, it faded away, and the new covenant was introduced.
TER
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If I may interject YumYum, the Christian teaching is that God will always forgive a contrite, honest and repentant heart. The question is whether the repentance is true! If we keep repeating the sin, then it's contrition has proven to be unfaithful and the repentance a deception. Our Father forgives in Love and in Truth.
But we make it so difficult upon ourselves when He has already done most of the work!
Simply all one needs to do is get on their knees and search their heart.
When one falls before Him in tears, as the saints who have done in the past and have moistened the ground, praying 'Lord have mercy!', then like a second baptism of tears, the burdens are lifted, the soul is lightened, and the spirit is illuminated, and the majesty of God's divine mercy and ever abundant love is experienced in loving communion. 'This is the Lord's doing and is marvelous in our eyes.' (Psalm 118: 23)
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jmdrake
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Jesus reaffirmed the 10 commandments. Paul not only did not do away with the 10 commandments he did not have the RIGHT to do away with them. Jesus = God. Paul = man. A good man, but a man nonetheless.
But, like I said, Paul did not teach what you think he was teaching. We are not under the human condemnation of the law, but we are still under the law. Sin is still defined as the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4) The law still points out sin. (Romans 7:7) The wages of sin is still death. (Romans 6:23) But the good part is that the gift of God is eternal life. (Same verse). All of the 10 commandments are still binding. Even coveting is still wrong. (Again see Romans 7:7). Further Jesus said that unless our righteousness EXCEEDS that of the pharisees, we will not enter heaven. (Matthew 5:20).
But I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier. Which of the 10 commandments do you now think it is ok to break? Is it ok to steal or kill or covet or commit adultery or dishonor your parents or use God's name as a swear word? Really?
Edit: I went back and looked up the verses you quoted and I see your mistake. Re-read Galatians 5:1-6 and explain to me why you apparently think circumcision was part of the 10 commandments?
1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Again you have to understand that there was a ceremonial law that stood apart from the 10 commandments. Christians don't have to be circumcised. But Christians are supposed to abstain from killing, adultery, perjury, coveting etc.
Now let's look at 2 Corinthians 3:7 in context.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Remember earlier when I said that the new covenant isn't really all that new? Well 2 Corinthians 3:7-18 also says nothing about doing away with the 10 commandments. To the contrary it talks of the "old covenant" being like a "veil". That's because it was communicated indirectly through Moses. But God first TRIED to talk DIRECTLY to the Israelites. That's what we can have under the new covenant. The same direct face to face communication with God that Moses had and that God tried to have with all of Israel.
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I still think that all of the books of the bible should have been either included in the cannon or as a separate cannon. I do not believe that just because the curators of the bible did not 'feel' that the other books were worth including, that they should have been left out. Historians have found several of the missing books. I just do not believe that Christianity should be judged by so few books.
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